Talk:Thunderbolts*

Harrison Ford

Kevin Feige said at the Hall H panel that Harrison Ford is not in the film. Here's a timestamped YouTube link to when he says it, and here's an Entertainment Weekly article that references it. Aldwiki1 (talk) 16:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

 Added with the EW ref. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it is accurate to say "the panel made clear that [Ford] is not actually in Thunderbolts" based on what Feige said, it was Delaney who said Ford wasn't in the film but Feige's wording feels a little cage-y to me. He said "that is correct" which could be confirmation that Ford isn't in it, but in his next statement he just focuses on the Thunderbolts not being named after Thunderbolt Ross in the MCU. It feels to me that this doesn't necessarily counteract the earlier reports of Ford being in this one, unless Feige clarifies that Ford definitely isn't in it. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I just went back to the video and Feige saying "that is correct" could read more as him agreeing with the name similarities and not that Ford isn't actually in it, which came right before Feige's response. I presume that is why EW went with what they did, though I agree in heinsight that it is not as clear as EW made it out to be, and have restored the bit and hidden this mention for now until we get some clarity (leaning on WP:VNT here). Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Deadline's article on the panel lists Ford among the ensemble, so they likely didn't interpret this the same way EW did. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The last thing Delaney said before deferring to Feige was "...but he's not in Thunderbolts," to which Feige replied "That is correct." If Ford was in the film, wouldn't Feige have thought it appropriate to correct an error like that on the spot? But I realize that's speculative. Here are three more sources that interpreted Feige's words as Ford not being in the film: 1, 2, 3. Aldwiki1 (talk) 23:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I feel like if that were true, then the Hollywood trades like Deadline, THR, Variety, TheWrap, etc. would have picked up on it (similar to them debunking Ruffalo in BNW). Those are the higher-tier sources compared to these more blog-akin ones, and the latter source seems to question Feige possibly just playing coy about this. WP:VNT seems to apply here. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:25, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Interestingly, Deadline has since removed any mention of Ford from their article I linked above, but does not mention anything about Feige's comments. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Five more reliable sources have interpreted Feige's comments as Ford not being in Thunderbolts: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. The first two are from the same outlet but written by different authors. I've also come across a Variety article from 2022 that says Ford wouldn't appear in the film. If these are still not sufficient to remove him from the cast, can we at least mention that there are conflicting reports about his involvement? Aldwiki1 (talk) 15:50, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

The 2022 Variety article can be added to where we have THR's confirmation and say there were conflicting reports at the time. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:57, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Added Variety's report. I've also elected to add the EW and Esquire articles but kept the wording open-ended. They're reliable sources so I don't think their commentaries on this should go ignored. Aldwiki1 (talk) 13:11, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources can get things wrong at times, and not all interpretations of their writers are always correct. WP:VNT applies until we get more concrete clarity/confirmation about this. For now, I am inclined to say the Ford details can remain considering several trades verified his involvement initially. Now, things could have changed from 2022 to now (from the strikes, Cap 4 and all), though considering only Variety cast doubt on his role in this and these sources linked are of lesser reliability, I think how this is currently being handled works for now. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:27, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

The production section indicates Ford is not expected to appear in the film. We can't have the article contradict itself. I'm removing him from the cast list. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 01:14, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Please read the rest of this section as this has already been discussed. Changes should not be made without new information coming to light and a new consensus here. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:17, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

We don't need a consensus to decide that the article shouldn't contradict itself. That's just basic editing. It can be debated which part to change, but we can't list Ford in the cast list when the only mentions of him in production says that he is not expected to appear in the film. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 17:13, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

If the article states that he is not expected to appear then that goes against the consensus established in this discussion. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:41, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I have checked and as I suspected, somebody had changed the body of the article to no longer align with the consensus above. I have reverted that change and aligned the wording in the cast section so there should be no concerns about the article contradicting itself. If others think the wording needs to change then that should be discussed here first. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Release date

We come to find out that the May 5 date was a typing error, as was revealed by Marvel Entertainment and Julia Louis-Dreyfus in an interview with EW with the cast and director, she said that the release was May 2, not May 5. KingArti (talk) 13:52, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

We have no source saying this was a "typing error" as you have presumed here. That was the most recent date used at CinemaCon by Marvel, so it is hard to believe they would let a mistake like that fly. Reputable trades such as Deadline have used that date while some more blog-oriented sites have not (though those are not always the most reputable). Marvel.com has notoriously been out of sync with Marvel Studios for years now and has gotten some things wrong before. The site still says Kang Dynasty is a thing and does not list directors, actors, etc. for some films, though that does not mean those are not true. It still uses the old logo for Thunderbolts on its page for the film. Could you provide a link to the video with a timestamp where this claim is said, as I do not have time to watch a 30 minute video to find one comment. I will say, if Disney's official release calendar was accessible, that would also be helpful, though I have seen sources differ on this date since the CinemaCon panel. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:13, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Disney's press site lists the date as May 2, 2025, and so does Disney's press release. Here's a recent tweet from Marvel Studios that lists the same date. And in the video linked by KingArti, the May 2nd date is mentioned at 13:14. Aldwiki1 (talk) 16:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I made the change based on the sources you provided. Rlendog (talk) 18:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

This still seems very odd. Release date changes are usually widely reported. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I believe it wasn't reported on because the release date never actually changed. The release date on Marvel.com and Disney's press site has always been May 2nd. It's clear they made a mistake in the CinemaCon graphic and didn't feel the need to come out and publicly correct it because they probably figured nobody would think they'd actually release a movie on a Monday. Aldwiki1 (talk) 01:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Still speculation that the CinemaCon "May 5" date was a mistake. WP:VNT applies. I support how this is currently handled in the article by retaining the May 5 date where relevant. Studios have released films on days other than the typical Friday, such as releasing them on Wednesdays or on Tuesdays (such as Marvel's Spider-Man: Far From Home), so I wouldn't say releasing this on a Monday is too bizarre or weird, nor would that make it a mistake. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I didn't realize May 5 is a Monday. That would be highly unusual and makes me think it was definitely a mistake. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:45, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Florence Pugh location on cast list

Why is Florence Pugh the last on the cast list? She is arguably the most prominent character along with Bucky in this movie, not to mention the most notable/famous female actress in a leading role in this movie. Recommend moving her up at lesat to the 2nd spot on the cast list. Asherek (talk) 15:44, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

The cast list is based on the order given by Marvel's website. We do not decided where to place actors based on our opinion of how notable they are - adamstom97 (talk) 20:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Character mames

Per Wikipedia guidelines, fictional characters are referred to based on their common names. Wonder Woman's real name is Princess Diana of Themyscira, but the article doesn't refer to her as "Diana" or "Princess Diana". Outside of the ledge and biography section, she's just "Wonder Woman". The same should apply here. To take Yelena Belova as an example, unless she's primarily referred by her last name throughout her appearances, she should be referred to as simply "Yelena" across the article. Has her last never ever even been mentioned across her appearances? PanagiotisZois (talk) 18:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

There's also MOS:SURNAME. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 01:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

From my understanding, that's for real-life figures. Not fictional characters. PanagiotisZois (talk) 08:10, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

We tend to use last names per WP:MCU, unless a character is genuinely not referred to by that name. There is no consensus for using "Yelena" or "Alexei" at other articles for those characters. I think we need to invite others at WT:MCU to participate in this discussion so a wider consensus can be formed. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)