Talk:Salome Zourabichvili

Contested deletion

This is the page for the President of Georgia. Deleting it makes no sense. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 09:53, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Salome Zourabichvili

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Salome Zourabichvili's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "VOA":

• From Russia: "New Reports Highlight Russia's Deep-Seated Culture of Corruption". Voice of America. 26 January 2020. Retrieved 16 March 2020.
• From Senegal: Phuong, Tran (9 July 2007). "Vietnamese Continue Traditions in Senegal". Voice of America. Archived from the original on 11 July 2007. Retrieved 27 August 2008.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:00, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Enormous additions without discussion

Recently someone add dozens of pages of information to this article, which seems too much, too favorable to Zourabichvili, and just too detailed. Even the American president doesn't have such a long and detailed page...I think the editor is maybe affiliated with Zourabichvili in some way? The whole thing now reads like a political campaign promotional article of some kind. I removed these additions because I don't think this is authentic. Articles needs to be written over time, not taken over my a single person or group.

SOme of the information is useful and documented but I just think it should be reduced to more reasonable length, tone should be more neutral, and also discussed with other users familiar with Georgia to ensure impartiality. The rewritten article makes it sound like Salome is Georgia's savior. LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 02:14, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I think those claims are unfounded. There were even entire sections about controversies. It was a detailed biography, absolutely, but not a single sentence was in violation of Wikipedia's standards. Every single fact came with a reference, and each one from easily-verifiable (98% in English) and highly reliable sources. BUT I will follow your advice and I will rewrite the article (which in its current state is nothing more than a farce with several mistakes) progressively. I will rewrite a section once every three days, giving you ample time to review each part. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 14:32, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll also add that "this article is too long because this other article is shorter" is not a proper argument. I can't be asked to make the Joe Biden page longer just because I wrote something about Salome Zourabichvili. And I'll also remind you that any American President has not one but 15+ different pages about different parts of their presidencies (visits, speeches, crises, negotiations, etc.), something that wouldn't necessarily work in this case. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 07:09, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Before spending more time arguing, I think you must see this Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure. If this applies to you (and I think it does) this article may become tainted by your "contribution". You should consider that. --LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 19:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I have no idea what this is about. I've been writing on Wikipedia for 15 years (granted, mostly on French Wikipedia). And almost exclusively all of my work has been on Georgian heads of state. Because I'm Georgian, not because I'm paid. I'm not here discussing your own reasons for deleting months of work based on nothing more than a dislike. I'm not arguing. Delete all you want, I've agreed to reintroduce changes progressively to give you time to read. Deleting a picture of the President with her daughter (and yes, a presidential daughter in ANY COUNTRY is called the First Daughter, that's not bias, it's just standard protocol - and no, the article did not even call her that) both present at the inauguration of a foreign head of state because, to quote you, "she's not well-known" really shows a bias from your side. But I won't challenge that deletion, it's just a question that was meant to illustrate the family section of the article. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 07:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I think you realize what it is about. Trying to avoid any conflict of interest, that is what this it about. Entire article can be labeled with different warnings if it is believed that there's some kind of undue influence going on, which will be damaging to the article, so just keep that in mind.

Also, as you make additions to the article, depending on how long it gets, you should dedicate at least a paragraph or two to Bidzina Ivanishvili and her relationship with Salome. Anyone who know Georgia understands that you cannot have 20 pages of information about Salome with only a few mentions of Bidzina. Otherwise it looks too rosy and hard to believe that article reflects Georgia's present reality.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 08:30, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

One additional thought. Since you are interested in the topic, perhaps you can have some luck finding high quality version of this official portrait or something similar: https://www.president.gov.ge/en/page/biografia. It seems difficult to find high quality professional portrait that does not look sad/too serious or informal. One on the website seems nice but strange I can't find larger version here.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 08:45, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

On Bidzina: the article I wrote had plenty mentions about Bidzina. Be it her relationship with him in 2013 or even her being supported by GD during the presidential election. As the situation evolved though, there is little to write about their relationship since the beginning of her presidency (except some accusations of collusion between her and the ruling party, which were present in the article). But the fact that that relationship has changed and that there is an actual constitutional crisis over her relationship with the government, that has to take priority in writing because encyclopedic standards prioritize confirmed facts over allegations (the latter may have a place, but not much more than what was already written).

As for the picture: I know, I once tried uploading the picture but that was before the Presidential Administration opened its pictures to open licensing and it was deleted outright. I don't have a higher-quality picture. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 11:02, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

After realizing that the recent edits result in a ten-fold increase in the size of the article, I have undone the bulk of AlexandreAssatiani's additions. It is my opinion that they are way over the top, that they are too detailed, and that they contain too much material that is either policy and should be placed in a "government of" kind of article, or policy that is not the person's but the government's. In addition, I am seriously wondering whether AlexandreAssatiani does have a COI, despite their claim not to. Drmies (talk) 21:59, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh come on now. I've been working on this for over a year, most of it is translated from French Wikipedia, and there's been discussions since the beginning of October. Please, tell me which part is not encyclopedic. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 15:03, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It is absolutely shameful, sir, that you willingly choose to ignore the already-existing discussions, refuse to explain what parts are not encyclopedic, and delete unilaterally work that was done over the span of a month. --AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 15:07, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

AlexandreAssatiani You might want to read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You are definitely that and probably hired by the administration of this person who decides nothing in Georgia. Drmies Please look into this editors history of uploads and contribution. He is definitely a paid editor hired probably by an administration of president who is a nobody in Georgia but is well known narcissist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4040:9CE7:E700:65CD:9E91:2156:2942 (talk) 23:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Proposal: "Social issues" subsection under Presidency

Hello all, I would like to propose adding a section under the "Domestic Policy" subsection of the "Presidency" section of this article that would be titled "Social issues" and would effectively combine and replace the "Women's rights and equality" and "LGBTQ rights" subsections of the "Political positions" section. A couple of reasons:

• In the current version, the "positions" exclusively refer to what she has said AS PRESIDENT, so separating it from the Presidency makes little sense.
• As President, her actions do not merit separate sections for these two positions (each can be summed up in a single paragraph without unnecessarily going into details)
• These sections are outdated and need serious revamp.

If I see no opposition, commentary or response to this proposal, I will add it on 13 November.

Proposed text

Here is the text I would like to add, replacing the above-listed subsections:

As the first woman president of Georgia, Salome Zourabichvili has defended women's rights and gender equality via the bully pulpit, notably by organizing several meetings and participating in conferences dedicated to women's liberation. She welcomed in October 2019 a group of businesswomen from France and Belgium at the Orbeliani Palace, declaring that "the contribution of women in political, cultural, business and educational circles is key to national development". In February 2021, during the visit of Ann Linde to Georgia as chairwoman-in-office of the OSCE, Zourabichvili announced her intent to hold an international conference for women in conflict resolution: the Tbilisi Women's International Conference brought together women in politics, culture, business, civil society, and journalism from around the world on 17 June 2022 , a conference set to become annual. Following the 2021 local elections, she criticized the lack of elected women. In October 2022, she called on Parliament to adopt legislation to provide women entrepreneurs with easier access to financing.

As President, she's also been vocal on gender-based violence and discrimination. After Ilia Jishkariani, a member of the Tbilisi City Assembly from the ruling GD party, was accused by a staffer of sexual assault, she called the news "Georgia's #MeToo moment." In April 2019, during her speech at the opening ceremony of the European Weightlifting Championship, she bashed the Georgian Weightlifting Federation for not recruiting female champion Tatia Lortkipanidze in the competition after she accused its head coach of harassment and discrimination. Shortly after Turkey announced it would withdraw from the Istanbul Convention, she announced Georgia would fully implement its requirements. After a perceived increase in cases of femicide in Georgia, she launched a dialogue with NGOs to discuss ways to respond to the crisis in February 2020.

Under her presidency, the issue of the LGBTQ community is a topic of national debate, especially during the 2019 Tbilisi Pride March, which was cancelled by the authorities for fear of violence by far-right groups. She declared her opposition to "all discrimination" but was criticized by the Tbilisi Pride organization when she stated that "the country is facing enough controversy and does not need further provocation coming from any side of the LGBTQ debate". On 5 July 2021, another attempt at holding the Tbilisi Pride march, openly supported by the President, ended in violent far-right riots that caused several injuries and the burning down of the Tbilisi Pride organization's offices. She was the only public figure to visit the injured journalists in hospitals. A year later, the President condemned the "lack of justice" and accused these groups of working for Russian interests.

President Zourabichvili supports the adoption of rules against defamation and hate speech, as Georgia decriminalized defamation in 2004. During her 2019 New Year's speech, she supported the need to protect "both the freedom of expression and human dignity", claiming that protections against fake news and hate speech were necessary to "return peace to a society divided by polarization and to avoid any threat against our democracy". These remarks are later shared by Catholicos-Patriarch Ilia II and Speaker Irakli Kobakhiadze. This stance is criticized by civil society groups and several NGOs expressed their disapproval during a meeting with the President. Zourabichvili has nevertheless continued to push in favor of regulations against defamation, criticizing the "low level of responsibility and social networks often controlled by foreign powers". She has cited France's 2018 Law against the Manipulation of Information as an example to follow.

The change would:

• Update and simplify the section of Women's rights and equality
• Add a paragraph on her positioning and actions toward gender-based violence and discrimination
• Update and simplify the section on LGBTQ rights
• Add a paragraph on her proposals to adopt anti-defamation legislation

AlexandreAssatiani (talk) 16:47, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

No, you should immediately stop this advertising campaign for Zurabishvili. She is a total zero and nobody in Georgia and decides nothing in Georgian politics. And none of this extra massive content you are pushing has Zurabishvili to decide upon as she is a nominal head of state and cannot run any policy issues in Georgia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4040:9CE7:E700:65CD:9E91:2156:2942 (talk) 23:20, 10 November 2022 (UTC)