Talk:Paul Vallas

NPOV

while a fan of Vallas, the claims this article makes are largely unsubstantiated. The results of the mayoral takeover of the chicago public school system are largely unstudied; clear evidence of the effect on students' tests scores is disputed (to the best of my knowledge), and Vallas himself is a highly controversial figure. The claims this article makes need to be (1) CITED, and (2) written from a more neutral standpoint. --Katwmn6 05:28, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

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Role/infobox

It seems kind of off to have the infobox report him as the Superintendent of the Bridgeport Public Schools when he has not held the post for nearly 10 years. There are lines below it that make that clear. But when what has he been doing for the last nearly 10 years? He's run in a few tries at electoral office but what is he doing for an actual job? Novellasyes (talk) 16:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Infoboxes generally list offices in that manner regardless of how long it has been since they held their last office. There is a "profession" parameter for the infobox that is not currently being utilized, and I I will add it. However, failed candidacies are not listed in infoboxes. SecretName101 (talk) 21:09, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Can someone please add missing content to this page?

I will link several articles below. There is missing content on Paul's relief work and DOJ work. If anyone needs sources or has questions please reach out. My edits keep getting pulled down. I would appreciate if the page reflected the missing information.

https://nesnus.org/about-nesn/mr-paul-vallas/ nola.com/news/education/article_1c7f3009-57ee-5eb7-9292-d0f0c2721780.html https://www.nola.com/news/education/article_00c9734b-41b2-5058-9fea-a9eb9ffdf48c.html Zbrahm2 (talk) 21:12, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Zbrahm2 I suggest you draft your suggested text (including sources) and place it here so that others can assess its neutrality and veracity and, if needs be can have a discussion about the proposal. Nthep (talk) 21:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Here is the material that I would like to add to his short bio. I would also appreciate if someone added the city budget director to his job titles in the table on the right side of the page.

Beyond his contributions in education and civil service, Vallas was brought in by the Inter-American Development Bank to help build Haiti's first publicly-funded school system following the 2010 earthquake in Haiti. His work led actor Sean Penn to request that Vallas join his J/P Haitian Relief Foundation CORE's Board of Directors as finance committee chair. Beyond its international relief work, CORE has provided 6.3 million free COVID-19 tests and 2.7 million vaccines across the United States. Vallas was also brought in by the Inter-American Development Bank to help rescue school districts in Chile following the earthquake in 2010. Since then, Vallas has conducted work to expand quality public education in both Pakistan and Sudan.

Under the Federal Bureau of Prisons in 2016, Vallas worked with former Deputy U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates to deliver the U.S. Department of Justice a program to revamp educational and occupational training for those incarcerated across the nation's 122 federal prisons.

HELLO??? Is anyone there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.178.10.68 (talk) 19:14, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

I have an issue with the sourcing. NENUS identifies him as a member of their board. Using them as the sole citation for what amounts to possible positive fluff is problematic. They could be embellishing greatly for all we know, to make their board member look more impressive. The citation from CORE does not seem to have anything about Vallas. And the first source on Haiti does not actually say what you claim it does. I'll find a way to incorporate what is actually said by it. Not sure if the Sean Penn stuff is necessary. SecretName101 (talk) 05:08, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

SecretName101 It looks like the changes have been made, and I agree that the other citations are not reliable. Can we close this request? GiovanniSidwell (talk) 17:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

@GiovanniSidwell I believe we can close it, yes. SecretName101 (talk) 00:47, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: per above GiovanniSidwell (talk) 15:19, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Photos of Paul Vallas

TDKR Chicago 101 added this photo of Paul Vallas: on February 6.

On February 8, SecretName101 removed that photo and added back in the photo that has been in the page for a long time, namely: .

SecretName101's argument (edit summary) was "while five years older, this image has a superior angle and expression".

It's true it has a superior angle. However, I prefer the 2023 photo added by TDKR Chicago. My main reason is that the 2018 photo has a very bad "red eyes" thing going on.

I'd appreciate others weighing in. Novellasyes (talk) 19:05, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

That's the reason why I changed the image because the 2018 one had the red eyes issue. While it is true that my replacement image is a newer one, it was not my main motive. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:24, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

• I like the 2023 picture. It fixes the red eye issue. --2601:249:8E00:420:A95D:FE03:2512:9DD6 (talk) 19:10, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Weasel words

There are a lot of WP:Weasel words in this paragraph: "Many view Vallas as being either a conservative or politically moderate candidate. He has been characterized as conservative compared to other candidates running for mayor. He has received significant campaign donations from sources considered politically conservative. Lightfoot and fellow candidate Chuy García have sought to cast Vallas as aligned with the Republican Party. During the campaign, Lightfoot has characterized Vallas as being her most conservative challenger. Lightfoot and García both have accused Vallas of being inadequately pro-choice, despite Vallas having a past record of claiming to be pro-choice and past endorsements from Planned Parenthood and Personal PAC during his 2002 gubernatorial and 2014 lieutenant gubernatorial campaigns. They have pointed to a 2009 interview in which Vallas declared himself to be, "more of a Republican than a Democrat because, fundamentally, I oppose abortion," and in which he declared, "“if I were to run for office again, I would run as a Republican". Another line of attack for Lightfoot and García has been Vallas's relationship with and endorsement from the city's police union. Lightfoot has characterized Vallas's FOP endorsement as undermining Vallas's claim to have been a "lifelong Democrat". García has cast Vallas's closeness to the FOP as indicating that there would be "no police accountability" under a Vallas mayoralty. García has also derided the police union as being "far right"." Novellasyes (talk) 18:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Strongly agreed. This entire article should be considered for revision, especially considering there are weasel words present throughout the article, such as attributing "most effective Philadelphia schools chief in a generation" which categorically falls under "a statement is dressed with authority, yet has no substantial basis".

In all likelihood, perhaps one of the few valid parts of the section you've posted to consider would be only the portion supported directly by his own statements:

'They have pointed to a 2009 interview in which Vallas declared himself to be, "more of a Republican than a Democrat because, fundamentally, I oppose abortion," and in which he declared, “if I were to run for office again, I would run as a Republican"' AnimaZen (talk) 04:45, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Success and Track Record

In discussing Paul Vallas's track record in Philadelphia schools, the section makes use of emotionally charged claims that are not well supported in the referenced article, such as him being the "most effective Philadelphia schools chief in a generation", which contributes to a significantly non-neutral take on his tenure, and therefore seems out of place on Wikipedia. AnimaZen (talk) 04:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Coat rack

I can see this article verging into WP:COAT territory due to his experiences at various huge school districts, which had problems when he got involved. Detailed sentences having to do with whether state take-overs work in huge urban districts, the impact of privatization, massive structural budget deficits in the Chicago system -- there's a lot of debate to be had over these issues and many people have strong opinions one way or the other. Some edits want to blame it all on him and some edits want to exonerate him. But to do either, you have to go into a huge amount of detail that justifies either the conclusion that he should be blamed for everything, or he should be exonerated. I'm not convinced that these issues are really about him so much as they are about the underlying huge and complex policy issues that our whole country is struggling to get right. If the articles about the various school districts he had a leadership role in would have lengthy detail on the situations he was involved in with them, we could link to those longer discussions over there in those articles. But trying to do the whole debate within this article seems misbegotten and coat-racky. Novellasyes (talk) 18:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

@Novellasyes

A key point of Vallas' notability is his leadership of school districts, however. Other well-developed articles about educators delve into their actions as superintendent and the problems they addressed.

Of course, it should be balanced, rather than either a laundry-list of criticisms or a campaign-bio style list of accomplishments.

William McAndrew is a good example of a well-developed article on a Chicago superintendent.

Ted Kimbrough, who served a much briefer tenure than Vallas, has more extensive coverage on his tenure than Vallas does.

It's a problem that many articles of recent CEOs/superintendent of Chicago schools and school board presidents are underdeveloped, especially contemporary ones (such as Arne Duncan, Gery Chico, Miguel del Valle, etc.) With Duncan, Chico, and Vallas arguably being the most consequential of recent school district leaders, they should be priorities to expand coverage.

As with any article, coverage should relate to Vallas himself and his leadership. Some context should be provided to the situation he inherited, but the primary focus should be the important initiatives and actions that Vallas had a direct involvement in and their most immediate and important impacts/results. SecretName101 (talk) 00:57, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Improvements to coverage of tenures as superintendent would be appreciated greatly

The article definitely lacks comprehensive coverage of important actions taken in each of his tenures as superintendent of different systems and their most immediate and consequential ramifications/effects. Improvement by editors, particularly ones used to editing bios of educators, would be appreciated. SecretName101 (talk) 00:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Edit

There’s an error in his Philadelphia CEO section where it says “$73.3”. It should probably say “$73.3 million”. The “million” Is omitted in the current section. 2600:4040:7EF4:CF00:B185:5ACA:4C1C:AD2C (talk) 04:11, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Fixed SecretName101 (talk) 18:25, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

I'd urge editors to give feedback about any concerns of biased treatment

I, as any editor should, am aiming for an objective treatment of Vallas. But, as with pretty much any editor who has a strong interest in the subject of government and politics, I have formed personal opinions on government and politics. I make a true effort not to let those influence what I include, what I omit, and how I portray matters. Nevertheless, as a human with a viewpoint of my own, it is unreasonable to think I could flawlessly accomplish the goal of purely objective coverage.

Since I have contributed so much of the article, I want to actively urge editors to provide feedback pointing out any specific instances of bias they believe are present in this article.

As always, reliable sourcing is key to this project. So it is greatly appreciated if you can present reliable sources that support the way you believe any matters should be instead portrayed.

Also note that "objective" is not always the same as "balanced". We want to have an accurate account, and want to avoid potraying inaccurate equivalencies (both ones that create an inaccurately positive picture and those that cast an inaccurately negative picture).

Look forward to hopefully engaging with editors on this! SecretName101 (talk) 21:07, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

RfC/Vote: Let's use this image?

I believe File:Paul Vallas March 2023 (3x4a).jpg would be a superior image for the infobox. Anyone support or object this? SecretName101 (talk) 18:31, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I lean towards the March 2023 (Option A) image because it's more recent, whereas the Paul Vallas (3x4a) is nearly a decade old. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I think recent-ness is less important. His appearance has not dramatically changed at all between 2014 and now (therefore the 2014 photo is not any worse a representation of how he looks today), and the 2014 image is superior in quality. SecretName101 (talk) 16:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

My issue with the date is that 'should' Vallas be elected mayor, the image will be extremely outdated in terms of the context of the image. Plus, Option B you only really see half of his face whereas option A you see his entire face which I think outweighs the clothing factor that you mentioned. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:40, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Actually File:Paul Vallas (3x4a).jpg would be even better. SecretName101 (talk) 18:34, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Strongly agree with using File:Paul Vallas (3x4a).jpg. Novellasyes (talk) 19:34, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@Novellasyes Of the four options now (I've added two others), which is best in your opinion? SecretName101 (talk) 16:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

It is also worth noting I just cropped two Vallas photos into having white backgrounds. Added them as options C and D. SecretName101 (talk) 16:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Personally, not a fan of the white background because it appears off, like in Option C it's not totally clean cut as some of the old background can slightly be seen on top of his head. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I also think it is a problem with option A that he is dressed so casually. It's more flattering to the subject to have a photo in which they are wearing a suit jacket. SecretName101 (talk) 16:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

As I noted, the outline of Vallas in the white background choices appear a bit 'rough' and weird. In terms of the clothing comment, with option A you are able to see his full face whereas option B you only see half of it. I think seeing the entirety of the article's subject outweighs whatever clothes they're wearing. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

• 
  Option A (2023)
• 
  Option B (2014)
• 
  Option C (2014; white background)
• 
  Option D (2019; white background)
• 
  Option E (2019)
• 
  Option F (current image; 2023)
• 
  Option G (2022)
• 
  Option H (2023)

• Option A I know I already stated this earlier, but I'm leaving it here to make the consensus clearer. Option A is up to date, in my opinion the quality is not entirely bad and you can see the entire subject (not half of him). --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
• Option B. What I don't like about C is the maladroit cropping around his hairline. Options D and E have the dread red-eyes problem. Option F, while technically good, has him looking down. Options A and G in my opinion are less desirable because of unusual and distracting backgrounds. I also don't like the way the light bounces off his head in Option A. Novellasyes (talk) 21:46, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

  I prefer B to A. Not sure if B is my absolute fave photo, but it is MANY TIMES better than A SecretName101 (talk) 01:45, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Perennial candidate

He didn’t run in elections to become CEO of the various public schools. Every time he’s run in an election, he’s failed to be elected. I don’t see how he’s a politician, but not a perennial candidate. Would he not be more akin to an administrator with a failed political career? I don’t see how he can, in good faith, be called a politician and not a perennial candidate. MonSocMan (talk) 16:53, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@MonSocMan

"Perennial candidate" tends to carry the connotation that an individual regularly run campaigns that are unlikely to succeed. That they are a candidate whose chances of victory generally are either unviable in all of their candidacies, or that they become decreasingly viable across successive campaigns. That they run regularly without a likely chance of winning. That's not Vallas, he's lost several times, but he's been regularly a competitive candidate.

Vallas has run for office four times. Let's analyze each:

• In his 2002 gubernatorial primary campaign he lost by merely 2.03% of the vote. It's hard to argue that he was unviable
• The 2014 gubernatorial ticket lost by 3.9, not a broad or insurmountable margin. It reasons to say there was a some reasonable chance he could have won had factors been reasonably different
• 2019 was a free-for-all. The ultimate winner, Lighfoot, illustrates this, as she had a major last-minute surge. It reasons that Vallas certainly had odds of making the runoff, even if he was not painted as a front-runner. Lightfoot was sidelined from the main debate stage something like a month before she placed first in the first-round. Had factors that she benefited from late in the campaign been applied to his candidacy instead of her's (such as receiving the Chicago Sun-Times endorsement, or having Preckwinkle's team accidentally give free publicity) it goes to reason that Vallas very well could have been elected mayor in 2019. And his showing was respectable given the massive and wholly divided field
• He was the front-runner throughout the 2023 election. It certainly wasn't an unviable campaign. He lost, but it's ludicrous to argue he had slim odds of winning.

Vallas is a multiple-time unsuccessful candidate. But he does not fit the connotations that go with "perennial candidate". SecretName101 (talk) 01:22, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

It is also worth adding that perennial candidates often are those who run election cycle-after-election cycle, year-after-year for a period of time. Running four times for three different offices over a period of 21 years is somewhat frequent, but pales compared to the frequency that I usually see considered perennial candidates do. For instance, there was an twelve year gap between his first and second campaign, and a further five year gap before his next. That’s not a constant presence on ballots the way perennial candidates tend to be.

Not sure that this would be an official criterium for using the term, but still worth noting. The word “perennial” does imply regular/consistent recurrence. Running for office for Vallas is a more-occasional thing/less a routine thing than most people I see referred to as “perennial candidates” SecretName101 (talk) 15:26, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Also worth noting that that label has not been routinely/widely applied to him by neutral and reliable sources SecretName101 (talk) 08:22, 6 January 2024 (UTC)