Talk:Mary Hogarth

Birth date

A number of published sources give her birth date as 26 October 1819, which fits with her dying aged 17 in May 1837, about five months before her 18th birthday. Is there any source which gives a specific date of birth in the first half of 1820? What is the best one? Or might they perhaps have subtracted 17 from 1837 and made a wrong assumption? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.251.246 (talk) 17:09, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mary Hogarth/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 15:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I'll take this on. ceranthor 15:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mary Hogarth/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 15:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I'll take this on. ceranthor 15:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Prose

Lead

• "Mary Scott Thompson Hogarth (26 October 1819[a] – 7 May 1837[b]) was the sister-in-law of Charles Dickens and the sister of Catherine Dickens (née Hogarth)." - would it be more clear if you said "the sister of Catherine Dickens, the wife of Charles Dickens"?

•  Done

• "Charles and Catherine Dickens' first child was named Mary in memory of Hogarth." - I think "in her memory" would flow better here.

•  Done

Life

• "She was the third of ten children, and second daughter.[2][3]" - "the" before "second"

•  Done and corrected to fourth child

• " Hogarth was named after her grandmother.[4]:73" - do you know on which side?

•  Done Paternal

• "Her father George was also a music critic, cellist and composer, who worked for the Edinburgh Courant magazine. In 1830, he founded the Halifax Guardian, in 1834 he became a music critic for The Morning Chronicle newspaper in London, and in 1835 he became editor-in-chief of The Evening Chronicle, a post he held for twenty years.[5]" - not sure all this detail is necessary for er father; I'd just say he was a musician, music critic and editor-in-chief

•  Done Moved the details to her father's article

Death

• "She died at around 15:00 later that day at the Dickens family home" - local time or UTC?

•  Done clarified local time as I'm not 100% sure that it was UTC

• "As a reason for missing the publication dates, he wrote that "he had lost a very dear young relative to whom he was most affectionately attached, and whose society has been, for a long time, the chief solace of his labours"." - citation?

•  Added

Inspiration for Dickens characters

• "Mary is believed to have been the inspiration for a number of Dickens characters." - bit too similar to the section title; would suggest changing to something less direct

•  Done

• "In the book, Maylie suffered a sudden illness, similar to how Hogarth did." - don't think you need to point out the similarity again as that's redundant; also this sentence is wordy

•  Done

• "However, Dickens chose for Maylie not to die, and for a happy ending instead.[10] " - how so?
• "Little Nell in The Old Curiosity Shop inherited beauty and gentleness, innocence and purity, traits that Dickens had associated with Mary, as well as the fact Nell dies suddenly in the book.[10][12]" - again, wordy; and what is going on with the commas for "beauty and gentleness, innocence and purity" - why is "and" there twice for one list?

•  Done

• "Kate Nickleby, the 17-year-old sister of the hero of the novel Nicholas Nickleby; Agnes Wickfield, the heroine in David Copperfield (her character was a mixture of both Mary and Georgina, another of Dickens' sister-in-laws), Ruth Pinch from Martin Chuzzlewit,[10][7][9][13] Lilian, the child-guide of Trotty Veck's visions in The Chimes, and Dot Peerybingle, the sister in The Cricket on the Hearth.[9]" - suggest using semicolons to separate each character

•  Done

References

• "Ruth Pinch from Martin Chuzzlewit,[10][7][9][13] " - refs should be in ascending order (ie. [7][9][10][13])

•  Done

• What makes [1] a reliable source per WP:RS?

• The author David Perdue is a Dickens researcher, who has been cited in other books and sources such as [2], [3], [4]

• Given the extensive further reading section, I have to wonder whether or not this article is fully comprehensive. Have all the available sources been consulted for Hogarth's life?

• See comment at the end of this for my reply

Earwig's Tool

• " Lilian, the child-guide of Trotty Veck's visions in The Chimes," - is a little too close to the source for my comfort. Otherwise, looks fine and no copyright violation concerns.

•  Done

Images

• File:Mary Scott Hogarth, aged 16.jpg - checks out
• File:Mary_Scott_Hogarth's_tombstone.jpg - relatively unconvinced that this image is actually within the public domain; the uploader at the source does not outrightly claim to release their images for public use, so I think it would be safe to assume they are not free to use (unless you know of evidence to the contrary?)

• I've asked at the media copyright help desk to confirm. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:44, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• I've also replaced with File:Mary_Scott_Hogarth's_tombstone.jpg with the slightly worse image File:Mary Scott Hogarth's grave.jpg which is correctly licenced

First round of comments. Might have additional prose suggestions and happy to follow up about references/comprehensiveness concerns. ceranthor 02:47, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I've updated the above with the things I've done

To answer your question about the further reading section, they were all used as sources but not inline on the French article. But many of the books cover a lot of the same material (death and character inspiration mainly), so I do not believe there is substantial content missing from the article

Question about the Inspiration section, what do you mean by "wordy"? Joseph2302 (talk) 11:44, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

By wordy I mean that it's verbose and uses more words than is necessary. Fine about the comprehensiveness issue. ceranthor 14:17, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Ceranthor I believe that I have covered all the issues raised, please let me know if that's not the case or if you discover more problems. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:33, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: I will be sure to take another look today and let you know if I have further suggestions. ceranthor 13:29, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

FYI, I added some more relevant images to the article. So please can you verify those as well? Joseph2302 (talk) 13:31, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

New Images

• File:Dickens_Museum_--_bedroom_25.jpg - licensing-wise, this is likely okay; how do you know this is Hogarth's room?
• File:Mary Scott Hogarth's grave.jpg - per OTRS ticket this seems fine
• File:The Writings of Charles Dickens v4 p438 (engraving).jpg - appears to be okay

Otherwise, I think this is ready to go. Let me know when you figure out the first image (the bedroom) above. ceranthor 14:54, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

• It's listed as Hogarth's room in the description on Charles Dickens Museum. And that is supported by comparing to other images on Google of the bedroom. As such, I've updated the image description on Commons to make this clearer. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Great. I'll pass this now. ceranthor 15:59, 19 December 2018 (UTC)