Talk:Livio Castiglioni

See Italian WP

Cl3phact0 (talk) 07:19, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Moved {{Translated|it|Livio Castiglioni|partial=1}} up. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:00, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Also see: Achille and Pier Giacomo Castiglioni

Please refer to articles about Livio Castiglioni's brothers Achille and Pier Giacomo when reviewing this submission. Thank you Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:27, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Livio Castiglioni.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Please see: User talk:Cl3phact0 - Wikipedia. Thank you Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:57, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Also see file use on Italian Wikipedia: File:Livio Castiglioni.jpg - Wikipedia Cl3phact0 (talk) 16:24, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Giannino Castiglioni e i figli Achille, Livio e Pier Giacomo Castiglioni a Lierna Lago di Como.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Please see: User talk:Cl3phact0 - Wikipedia. Thank you Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:58, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Citation bot?

Wondering why this was added to the article's Revision history: Category:Articles lacking reliable references from November 2022. Cheers Cl3phact0 (talk) 23:48, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Giannino Castiglioni e i figli Achille, Livio e Pier Giacomo Castiglioni a Lierna Lago di Como.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Commons file restored (thanks)

Appreciate the help from the editors who resolved the issues with the Castiglioni family portrait and restored the photograph to this page (as well as the other pages where the image is used). Many thanks Cl3phact0 (talk) 05:22, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

PS: I noticed that the photo was also deleted from this French article. (Not sure if I'm permitted to revert, or even how to do that.) Cl3phact0 (talk) 05:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Aoidh (talk) 00:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Marble plaque in the Via Fratelli Castiglioni

[[File:|140px|Alt image ]]

Alt image

• ... that in 2014 the city of Milan in Italy named a street after the designers Achille, Livio, and Pier Giacomo Castiglioni called Via Fratelli Castiglioni (plaque pictured)? Source: https://www.nuove-strade.it/lombardia/milano/via-fratelli-castiglioni
  • ALT1: ... that the Boalum light designed by Livio Castiglioni (pictured) and Gianfranco Frattini gets its unusual name from the combination of Boa constrictor and lume, an Italian word for light? Source: https://www.worldcat.org/title/216939341
  • ALT2: ... that the Italian designer Livio Castiglioni (pictured) was the elder brother of Achille and Pier Giacomo Castiglioni, and that all three were sons of sculptor Giannino Castiglioni? Source: ISBN 978-88-7570-750-7
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Justlettersandnumbers#Castiglioni_brothers

Thank you! Moved to mainspace by Cl3phact0 (talk). Self-nominated at 11:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC).

• Comment: Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know_nominations/Livio_Castiglioni#Alternate%20photo?
• Comment: Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know_nominations/Livio_Castiglioni#%22Hook%22_edit?

While everything checks out and I approve both Alt hooks and the primary hook, the image of Livio is potentially not in the public domain. There is the possibility that someone on Italian Wikipedia is correct with these tags but I don't wish to chance it. In any case, sans portrait image, I would approve. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:57, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: Thank you Pbritti, please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cl3phact0#DYK_nomination_of_Livio_Castiglioni
  • Per Pbritti's review, I'm going to tick this without image. If an image is worked out, no prejudice against that being approved as well. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, theleekycauldron! Either photo or any of the hooks would suit me just fine (though I prefer the first hook with the photo of the marble plaque — which should be free of any concerns as I made and uploaded the image myself). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Justlettersandnumbers, appreciate your help. Wondering if it is "ok" to edit the "hook" post-submission? Now that there is a photo of the plaque, would it not be better to say: "...that in 2014 the city of Milan in Italy named a street after the designers Achille, Livio, and Pier Giacomo Castiglioni called Via Fratelli Castiglioni (pictured)? Cl3phact0 (talk) 19:57, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Cl3phact0, to be honest, I'm pretty hazy about the details of DYK "etiquette". Why not add your revised hook as another alt – someone will eventually correct that (without reproach) if it turns out to be wrong. What'd be nice now would be for someone to review this – it'll happen eventually. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Justlettersandnumbers, it would be a pity if the submission were to be selected and then published without the best possible "hook". I'll put a note in the DYK thread and place the proposed edit itself on the Talk page. Let's see how that lands. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:37, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done

I'd say just go ahead and edit the hooks, as they've not been reviewed yet. The hook should include (pictured) if using an image anyway, as per WP:DYKIMG. After the DYK has been reviewed any changes should be a new ALT. -Kj cheetham (talk) 18:04, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok, that makes sense to me. I'll have a go at it, cross my fingers, and try not to step on any toes. Thanks, Cl3phact0 (talk) 04:40, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done

Cl3phact0 (talk) 04:59, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Today there's 270 hooks outstanding in total with only 131 verified, so I suspect it'll be a few weeks before someone gets to reviewing this one unfortunately. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Kj cheetham, Justlettersandnumbers: DYK promoted! Not sure what happens next (or if either of the photos will ultimately be included), but I wanted to thank you both for your encouragement and help with this. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 06:49, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Cl3phact0 Congrats! It's now in Template:Did_you_know/Preparation_area_7, and in due course (likely within days) it'll be moved to a queue and then put on the front page. Looks like they didn't use a photo in the end, as only one entry in each set uses a photo in practice. -Kj cheetham (talk) 11:19, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Too bad about the photo, but great news just the same. Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:49, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

PS: I wonder why the Alt hook was chosen over the first one? (Mysterious place, this.) Cl3phact0 (talk) 12:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Finally! That's good, Cl3phact0, I'm looking forward to seeing it on the main page. I noticed this, though (and if I hadn't, someone else surely would have): there's a problem with the Fondazione Fiera Milano source, which clearly attributes its content to Wikipedia, so can't be used per WP:CIRCULAR. That short paragraph may need to be revised or even removed.

I've removed Lierna as his place of birth – that's the work of the hoax editor on it.wp – and added full dates for birth and death, with source. I didn't see any source for the 22 April 1911 birth date; if there is one then we should probably give both dates. His wife Xenia Bignami and son Piero Castiglioni seem to be well enough sourced to be added to the page. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:32, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll have a close look at the improvements you made and the points you've raised to see if I can help improve anything too. Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:56, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

You are right about the Fondazione Fiera Milano source. Sorry I didn't spot that. I think the information was also elsewhere, but I'll have to try to locate it again.

Re: Initialism, my rational was derived from the institutions themselves. (See relevant pages: here, here, and here for examples.) Cl3phact0 (talk) 00:25, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

PS: I've used these abbreviations quite a few times in art and design related articles I've edited. If it's a mistake, I have a lot of corrections to make, alas.

PPS: Should have linked ADI rather than V&A above (my point is that a lot of these institutions seem to be known by their initials, though I haven't the foggiest idea why this may be).

Stumped by Xenia Bignami reference. Her name turns up here and here, but I can't find verifiable sources for anyone of that name connected with Livio Castiglioni. Am I missing something?

Re: Piero Castiglioni, he is mentioned in the last paragraph of the "Work and career" section (with a link to the it:wp article about him). Do you think more needs to be written? [NB: "Leirna" birthplace.] Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:09, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi again, Cl3phact0! For his (first) marriage, try this search and then switch to Books (or Libri if it changes the language for you) - I'm seeing three useable sources. If you don't, I'll link them here individually. On the initialisms, it definitely isn't a mistake as such, it just seems superfluous – what's the point of writing it when it's already completely obvious? It's like a modern disease – now we have people calling themselves stuff like the University of Foo (UF), and then insisting that that is the actual name of the university; or down-casing it to make a word like Irpef. My view: if a thing has a name, use it! In this project, we're supposed to put the initialism in parentheses after the full name if we plan to refer to the thing by the initials later on. Just for comparison, see BBC, NATO, but Victoria and Albert Museum; we do call the museum the 'viend-eh' in conversation, but not in formal language. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:54, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not much for alphabet-soup either!

In the case of cited museums (add MET to examples, although footnote a seems to lend weight to the argument against), I used it because they use it – and have also seen it used elsewhere (both here on Wikipedia and in other writing). It seems like the tendency to abbreviate these august institutions might be thought to add gravitas or sharpen their branding; or, per Irpef ref above (also see: IRS, HMRC, BZSt, SPF Finances, DGFiP, etc.), to dull the pain; or maybe it's just easier to say. Not wed to it in any case, and absolutely fine with your edits if you think it reads better without, just wanted to table the matter for discussion.

Re: the Fondazione Fiera Milano ref., I removed one instance and added a tag to the second. Still looking for a better substitute and will hold-off on striking the poorly referenced sentence for now (if that's acceptable practice).

Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Kj cheetham, Justlettersandnumbers, Livio Castiglioni is live on DYK! Thanks again, Cl3phact0 (talk) 12:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Yay! -Kj cheetham (talk) 12:57, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

... and someone just deleted the portrait (in spite of all the conversations, etc.). This is so frustrating. :-( Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:35, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

... and the family portrait. I give up. This feels like a good waste of time to overlook past setbacks and celebrate positive outcomes. :-(( ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

... all's well that ends well ;-) Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:37, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Remove template?

Plan to rm "{{expand Italian|Livio Castiglioni|date=September 2022|section=no|topic=bio}}" as it may be is a distraction to a casual reader. The article now includes (most of) the information that can be found in its Italian counterpart. Will leave "{{Translated|it|Livio Castiglioni |partial=1}}" template here on the Talk page for editors' reference. Any reason not to make this edit? Cheers Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:05, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done

PS: By the same logic, I plan to also rm expand Italian template from Achille Castiglioni article, and eventually (once certain that all or most of the salient information has been included), Pier Giacomo Castiglioni article as well. Cheers

Wikiquote tag

This artile contains a {{Wikiquote}} tag that doesn't resolve correctly (it should probably link here until an equivalent page exists on English Wikiquote). Stumped by how to do this. Please advise. Thank you, Cl3phact0 (talk) 22:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Un-tag photos

Hello Justlettersandnumbers, after today's DYK near-miss train wreck, I'm wondering if there is something that can be done to better resolve the ongoing matter of the Lierna Sock tainted images so that this doesn't keep jumping the rails and landing on the Castiglioni articles (e.g., "un-tag" or somehow pause or suspend the deletion request)? The two photographs that seem to be the source of confusion are here and here (for reference, there is also a third, probably related image here). Thank you, Cl3phact0 (talk) 22:47, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

PS: I should have titled this "Un-tag phots?" (it's a question, not a declaration!), but don't want to change it now because I made a few links that lead here.

Cl3phact0, I'm sure those deletion discussions will be closed eventually, and confident that the Commons admin who closes them will make the right call. I don't think they'll end up being deleted, but if they do there shouldn't be any reason not to upload them (or the cool one at least) here on Wikipedia as non-free images under our very limiting fair-use criteria. I can help with that if it turns out to be necessary. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:59, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks, Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

DYK Stats!

This is a brilliant outcome! The DYK feature certianly attratcts readers' attention — case closed. Thanks again to everyone: @Kj cheetham:-) @Justlettersandnumbers:-) @BorgQueen:-) @RoySmith:-) @Neveselbert:-) @Nikkimaria:-) @Rfl0216:-) & @Mr.choppers:-) who helped tie this together in any way (great or small). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

PS: Please see above re: photos. Thanks!

PPS: Forgot to mention the folks on the DYK Template side. Thanks also to: Aoidh, theleekycauldron, Pbritti, and Mandarax.

Excellent result, Cl3phact0, all credit to you both for starting the page and then for having the determination to see it through the DYK process despite the setbacks. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:51, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

[NB: I did not even know about DYK until you brought it to my attention!] Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:12, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Here we go again...

The portrait of Livio Castiglioni that survived the scrutiny of the above DYK nomination, as well as a myriad of complexities created elsewhere, has just been deleted from Commons. Perhaps someone could help resolve this matter (again)? Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 21:06, 13 May 2023 (UTC)