Talk:List of European countries by average wage/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Scripts for updating data

shell script available for updating the map, and ruby script available for updating the table here:

https://github.com/HLLNSTN/wikipedia-european-stats-map

all that's needed is a copy and paste from the world bank website to a plain text editor, and a few tweaks to the colour coding ranges in the map script

Tetriminos (talk) 10:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Definition of Monthly salary

I've added phrase "(annual divided by 12 months)" to the "These are a map and a list of countries containing monthly (annual divided by 12 months)" to specify what monthly salary means. It's important to emphasis, because some countries like Portugal or Austria have often 13th and 14th salary. Without explaining that monthly in the meaning annual / 12 it's impossible to compare these values between countries. Hussein.ayatollah (talk) 12:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Emphases of the word Average

I think the value for UK was median. It's important to emphasis difference between Mean and Median value so future editors don't mistake them. Hussein.ayatollah (talk) 12:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorting

Sorting of net income in dollars is alphabetical instead of numeric — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.138.141.119 (talk) 13:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

This is way over the reality, at least for Portugal!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.176.237 (talk) 15:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Same for Lithuania, lol.. It says that average salary there is 800$, while in reality its 450-500$ User:Pupicucek —Preceding undated comment added 15:52, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Denmark

I have tried to reproduce the Danish number using the stated source (statbank.dk). The source is fine (it is the national bureau of statistics), but no combination of options I could try yields 35,189 DKK. The best numbers I could come up with is 23,887 DKK, only 2/3 of the listed numbers. But I don't actually know what combination of options is "right".--Per Abrahamsen (talk) 15:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I think the proper source should be this one: http://statbank.dk/SLON21 -- if I choose STANDARDIZED MONTHLY EARNINGS under Components, i get a result of ~37k DKK. I've updated the article. Eraxx (talk) 09:50, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Italy

Data seems to be not correct. Official data says 29766 €/year (net) per family. Still to verify the avg. numerosity of an Italian family, however it's around 2.4, so 29766/12/2.4 = 1033,54€/month (net), A LOT DIFFERENT from 1880€/mo. --FollowTheMedia (talk) 22:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

For all states wages are per capita.151.40.123.101 (talk) 13:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Poland

I addited here a site that let see that the avarage income isnt 3609 zl so read it furst before you fucking change it. Poland richer than greece,slovakia,hungary ,... lol . If this was true than why so many poles emigrate to this countries

Poland gross official wage is 3898 PLN .Check in Trading Economics under Poland Wages.Slovakia data will be updated and will overtake easily Poland.Even Hungary will grow.Stop vandalizing.151.40.123.101 (talk) 13:05, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Wtf nobody earn in poland 1000 euros / month lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.176.246.91 (talk) 10:09, 21 January 2014 (UTC) Look first to the reactions when you add it here , you will see that people hate gus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.176.246.91 (talk) 10:12, 21 January 2014 (UTC) http://m.se.pl/wydarzenia/kraj/sredni-dochod-w-polsce-wynosi-1478-zlotych_340007.html Please don't lie- average salary in fourth quarter of 2016 was only 4066 zlotys according to Gus- Just a short question.. did you see any poles emigrating to countries like Romania, Czech Rep , Slovakia, Moldova or Greece? It's rather romanians, czechs etc that come to PL as lower life costs provide much higher living-rate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.212.29.92 (talk) 13:47, 18 June 2015 (UTC) Average wage in Poland is surely not so high as mentioned - for 2014 it is only 3783,46 zlotys per month - look for GUS statistics even on polish wikipedia Because now it is a fraud or at least manipulation to publish december's wage which is the highest and compare this with other countries with all year average salary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.65.38.112 (talk) 15:48, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Once more I kindly ask to inform properly and do not make propaganda by comparing polish wage from december with full year wages in other countries. Because it is wikipedia not an advertisement site of Poland.

Russia: incorrect data

There is link to the table by GKS in the article. And it is the only proof for Russia there. The table shows that average salary in Russia in June 2013 was 31 210 rubles. Dollar costs 34.147 rubles now, and its cost has grown seriously since June 2013. So the average salary in Russia in June 2013 couldn't be less than 914$ net. or 795$ gross.

The single income tax in Russia is 13% for every employee.

But if all other countries' data is gross, why should Russia be an exception? Iain (talk) 11:42, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

There are particular columns in the table for both kinds of data. The data is "gross" and "net" for every country in appropriate columns. Russia isn't an exception. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasatkus (talk • contribs) 12:00, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

But the average salary in Russia is 858$ net. and 747$ gross in the article.

http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/B13_00/IssWWW.exe/Stg/dk06/1-0.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasatkus (talk • contribs) 21:52, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I undid the latest revision for Russia. The revision which was changed by previos author was much more truthfull due to data and ruble.

The newest data I found is for November 2013. Dollar in November was 33.18 rubles and average salary in Russia in November 2013 was 30 670 rubles. : It results in 922$ gross and 802$ net. It confirms my assumptions that information in previous revisions was not realistic.

http://ria.ru/economy/20131129/980716221.html

http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b13_02/IssWWW.exe/stg/d010/4-02.doc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasatkus (talk • contribs) 23:29, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Someone used the correct data for average wage in rubles. The data are for June 2013. But he or she used wrong exchange rate. The exchange rate :: in the end of June 2013 was 32.709 USD for a Ruble.

http://quote.rbc.ru/exchanges/demo/cb.0/daily?date=20130629

So 27231/32.709 = 832.52315876364303402733 or aprox. 833 dollars.

In the beginning of July 2013 rubble exchange rate didn't change dramatically:

http://quote.rbc.ru/exchanges/demo/cb.0/daily?date=20130705

It was 33.16 rubles for a dollar.

Even if someone used the exchange rate of the July, it would result in 821 USD. For the end of July 2013 the calculations would result in 828$.

http://quote.rbc.ru/exchanges/demo/cb.0/daily?date=20130705

http://quote.rbc.ru/exchanges/demo/cb.0/daily?date=20130731

It couldn't be 762$ in any case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasatkus (talk • contribs) 10:19, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

The same for the euro. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasatkus (talk • contribs) 10:32, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Currency

As this is an article about Europe, I think there is a case for giving the figures in euros and not US dollars. I understand that not all countries here have the euro as their currency, but at least some of them do, which cannot be said for the US dollar. Iain (talk) 11:40, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Word order of article title

A more natural English word order for this article's title would be "average monthly wage" and not "monthly average wage", which just sounds strange to me, a native English speaker. Iain (talk) 11:46, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

UK: My calculation for the Average

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_335027.pdf Page 36 talks about mean (average) weekly salary in UK: "full-time mean gross weekly earnings, UK, April 2013" "Gross Pay All: 620.3" 620.3*52(weeks/year)/12(months/year) = 2687.97 GBP per month — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hussein.ayatollah (talk • contribs) 11:54, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Bulgaria

Hi, average salary in Bulgaria is by no means 6490 BGN (3330 EUR). It does not make sense. Bulgaria would be one of richest countries in the EU which it is not. National statistical institute of Bulgaria says it is 846 BGN which is approximately 432 EUR. This makes more sense. http://www.nsi.bg/en/content/6410/total Sorry, I am to lazy to fix it in the article and in the map. Jan.Smolik (talk) 20:29, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Cyprus

Is 1833 eur net in Cyprus proper value? It seems quite a lot comparing with data in Numbeo.com - 1370 eur net in the capital: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Greece&country2=Cyprus&city1=Athens&city2=NicosiaHussein.ayatollah (talk) 13:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Turkey

Turkey is NOT a European country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.131.132 (talk) 20:52, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

803 Turkish Liras/277 Euros average wage is absolutely not correct information while as 1th January 2014 the minimum wage in Turkey is 1071 Turkish Liras/411 Euros. 176.42.31.109 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

References

Why is the USD column highlighted in table and why is such a column needed at all?

This is a list of European countries by their wages. How is USD relevant to a statistic concerning only European countries?

I propose the USD column to be deleted and the table to be ordered by a new highlight column, "net €", in a declining order. "ex.rate" should be renamed to "ex. rate to €" to remove ambiguity.

Obviously, with a new layout of table it won't be needed to recalculate most of European numbers to a different currency at all.

ADD:

As no one objected or gave any thoughts of his own on this for several months I took the liberty of editing the table.

I will update the table now to check the exchange rate for every non-€ currency according to sources provided, if there are any, and using the Eurostat if there are none, and recalculate the highlight column values. It's neccessary as it's not clear what currency was the "ex. rate" column refering to previously - in some cases the USD/currency value was there, in some cases it was EUR/currency.

ADD2: I will also update the map.

Exchange rates in general and Hungary in particular.

A reader noted that the net and gross values for Hungary did not match the values in the source. I corrected them.

The reader also requested correction of the exchange rate, the net value converted to US dollars, and the net value converted to euros. However, I have not seen in the article the source of the exchange rate for dollars or the exchange rate for euros.

If someone knows the source of the exchange rates it would be good to include a source. At the same time, it would be appreciated if the exchange rate for Hungary could be updated and the net US dollars and net euro values be corrected.--S Philbrick(Talk) 21:46, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Slovakia: data error

I found incorrect data about the situation in Slovakia

Average gross wage in 3.Q. 2014 according to Statistical Office of the Slovak Republic was 837 EUR

That means 647,49 EUR net using this calculator (eng)

Source that states 1136 EUR gross wage seems unreliable, since official data are a quite different. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitteleuropa velvet (talk • contribs) 16:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks a lot for overviews like these. This helps very much in understanding the differences within Europe, but also gives help in deciding sourcing countries in business-surroundings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.136.123.139 (talk) 13:12, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Regarding map colour changes

Should the colours of the map by Tetriminos be the one used in the article or the old purple/blue/green/yellow/orange/red? Additionally should Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan be shown on the map and microstates not? These questions are prompted by several reversions of the change by Budapest IP 188.36.246.220 and 81.183.128.52. However the factually correct information he/she removed will be added.

EasySeven (talk) 09:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism: by ProKro?

I have reverted map vandalism (for I can't name it any other way) by ProKro, particularily for Latvia and Lithuania.

Unfortunately, this user fails to provide a direct link to his source at Eurostat (or a verbose explanation on how to access it), whatever it be, and spams the page (map and Eurostat table section) with data that is plain wrong for some countries. €379 net is almost 2 times lower than the trustable and adequate number by Latvian national statistics authority and is far from being a realistic average wage in this country, much less so an amount of money you can get along with living here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.198.112.221 (talk) 16:41, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Request for protection

I have requested that this page be protected at WP:Requests for page protection

Since when was Turkey in Europe?

It's not. The leftists at wikipedia are including it in hopes it will be included into the EU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.131.132 (talk) 20:54, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2015

In the table

"Eurostat family"

We can find this information about Italy:

State Gross Taxes Soc sec Fam Allowances Net (Natl. Curr) Net (Eur) Italy 41,462.67 4,623.87 2,890.91 1,592.04 24,539.93 35,539.93

Please change the Net (Natl. Curr) to be equal to the Net (Eur), as the national currency of Italy is the Eur. It should be 35,539.93

87.17.124.56 (talk) 09:06, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. -- ferret (talk) 20:40, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Edits made without any sources

There have been many edits made recently by anonymous editors without any reason given or sources provided - there are too many for me to check individually and I don't know what version is the correct one to revert to. I therefore would like to close the page, or at least make it semi-protected again and revert to the correct version if someone knows what that is. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 19:09, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

ISO color codes or local currency signs

The table of average salaries uses ISO codes for some currencies and local signs for others. I think this should be standardised. 93.136.78.127 (talk) 00:23, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Croatia: data way off?

The table on following link shows Croatian incomes somewhere around those of Czech Republic or Estonia, but this wikipedia article "cites" main page of Croatian Buerau of Statistics and includes a number which seems to be way off. I was not able to find proper source on the Bureau's website, is anyone else able to? http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Annual_net_earnings,_2014_(EUR)_YB15.png

M@trixX, 95.102.174.111 (talk) 14:34, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Lithuania: missing data source

The link currently given only mention one single average. So there is no statistical significance or weight of this claim, whatsoever. Please find a proper data source. Generally speaking Lithuania's job salaries are highly shadowed by secret negotiations and the state doesn't want to give their citizens access to the official data. Apparently new data from 2016 tell a different story: Minimum wage is 350 EUR/Month. In addition the taxation system is far from transparent so that the average gross income value is extremely complicated to calculate without access to original source data, although one can expect something in the range of 15-24%.

 Jahibadkaret (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2016

The gross average wage in Bulgaria is up to BGN 952 in March 2016 (http://nsi.bg/sites/default/files/files/pressreleases/EmplsSalary2016q1_en_ZLZXDID.pdf). Using the provided references, this is equal to a net wage of BGN 746.28, which is calculated to be EUR 381.85 (http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=746.28&From=BGN&To=EUR) 89.190.214.112 (talk) 09:09, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Already done — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 02:12, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

You helped propaganda against Italy.Sad9721 (talk) 17:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

ITALY data with huge MISTAKE

About Italy there are data that aren't reported from its national statistic agency ISTAT.At the top is writen NATIONAL SOURCES.In case of no data it's better to write nothing.The data reported aren't at all official from NATIONAL SOURCES.The last calculated net was 2033 € in May 2015.Really a low level article, good to read mistakes.This is the right ciation not the wrong one posted:151.40.129.57 (talk) 18:33, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2016

Sad9721 (talk) 06:12, 11 July 2016 (UTC) Italy data are totally wrong because the reference isn't official as reported in the article.Article asks for official national data.It's posted just a newspaper page there by a semi vandalism.Data must be changed with official ISTAT data.Nobody trusts even in common sense that Italy has lower wages than Spain or Cyprus.Sad9721 (talk) 06:12, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

The net wage in June 2015 was 2033€(1560€ in the wrong article) and the gross 2583€.The way to calculate is in ISTAT site below.Sad9721 (talk) 06:29, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  01:47, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Sad9721 Nobody trusts in common sense what? Talk by yourself, because you don't want to accept the official data. Yes, Italy has lower wages than Spain or Cyprus; or at least that says the official data. Sicily for example has a poverty level compared to Romania (check it here, with official EUROSTAT data. If doesn't appear here look at the bottom of the talk page and you can click to see the official Eurostat map ), but this is irrelevant here. If you don't accept the official and voracious data and you don't like the reality it's not my fault... I'm just putting trustworthy sources which can be checked. Put a source saying that and here it won't be no problem. Anyways, I recommend you to seek in Google "european regions by GDP / wages per capita" and half of Italy can be compared to Croatia, Poland, etc so please don't invent data. Anyways, I don't win nothing discussing with you. I will just not tolerate false data on a article which took several months to be improved. --TechnicianGB (talk) 11:57, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Debate on use of ISTAT and Forexdirectory

TechnicianGB and Sad9721 are disagreeing on the use of ISTAT and Forexdirectory. Might I suggest that you discuss here on the talk page rather than in your edit summaries. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 11:43, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, i'm not disagreeing in nothing. The user Sad9721 just puts "istat.it" as a source. That's not a source, that's a main website. I've checked in the website istat.it and I didn't found nothing / no page saying that the average salary in Italy is 2.033€. Forexinfo uses official data from Italy's statistics. Well, I don't have a problem with this. I'm asking him from several months ago to put the source, that's all. But putting "istat.it" as a source is not a valid source, isn't it? I'm just telling him why I change his changes and why

his new source is not valid. In fact, this user waited some months to be an autoconfirmed user just to edit this page. Anyways, thanks Absolutelypuremilk for this talk. Regards!. --TechnicianGB (talk) 11:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Ok I see. I recommend then staying with the Forex cite and content unless Sad9721 can supply the url of an istat page showing the data for Italy. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 12:44, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Without the ISTAT data Italy hasn't an official average net wage .Forexinfo isn't at all the italian public statistic agency and it doesn't rapresent Italy in the official way as requested by the article and as it's for all othe r states.According to the same study published in Forexinfo there are different wages also about other states that should be changed (but this would go against the official siute also of these other states).If YOu don't like ISTAT page in which you can calculate the official net average wage in the page "RETRIBUZIONI" for Italy can't be set any data.Sad9721 (talk) 13:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

@Sad9721 you don't understand that ISTAT.IT is not a valid source? You don't understand that your numbers can't be checked or proved? Put here a PDF file , a link of a page, something which says that. It's not difficult to comprehend.

Now the user sad9721 has deleted any trace of Italy of the map and the 1st chart and it leaved like that... I don't know if he's just a troll or he doesn't even know what to do here. Can someone please report it in the administrators board? Thanks! --TechnicianGB (talk) 13:33, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Forexinfo isn't a statal official source,so isn't valid as REQUESTED for all states by the article.The only one is ISTAT.WITHOUT ISTAT DATA ITALY HASN'T OFFICIAL DATA about net average wages.Forexinfo study shows different data also for other states of the EU that should be changed in contrast with the official data of their statistic agencies.FOREXINFO ISN'T THE ITALIAN OFFICIAL STATISTIC AGENCY.Do you understand english?Sad9721 (talk) 13:36, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

You are putting an invented number of your liking and you then put the source as: "www.istat.it". That's not valid. I refuse to lose more time. I checked all the website of istat.it in the page retribuzioni and I don't see in any part something which says that the average salary is 2,033€. In fact, in "retribuzioni" only appears the difference of wages in %, if you enter inside the retribuzioni page you have a lot of options but none tells that the average wage is 2,033€. Obviously it doesn't say that anywhere because it's an invented number. I told you before and I will tell you for the last time: Just search in Google: "2033 Italia, 2.033 Italia or 2,033 Italia" and nothing appears. NOTHING! Then seek for any other country like UK, Portugal, Spain, France, Germany, etc with the number on the page and the name of the country and... voilá! Here you got it. But in Italy's case this doesn't happen. Later I will be home with time and I will warn you an the adminsitrator's noticeboard. Regards. --TechnicianGB (talk) 13:47, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

You are totally wrong because you haven't an official source (it means from the statal statistic agency) as requested by the article for all the states.ARTICLE ASKS FOR NATIONAL SOURCES.FOREXDIRECTORY IS USELESS.ONLY ISTAT DATA ARE VALID TO BE SET THERE.HAVE YOU ISTAT REFERENCE TO POST THERE?ONLY THAT ONE CAN BE ACCEPTED TO POST AN OFFICIAL AVERAGE NET WAGE FOR ITALY.It seems you ignore what i wrote.Do you realize english?Sad9721 (talk) 13:48, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2016

Something to correct in the future about wages.Thanks.Ambidibody (talk) 10:58, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Ambidibody (talk) 10:58, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — JJMC89 (T·C) 16:13, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2016

151.40.68.58 (talk) 09:22, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

The UK wrong net wage on the map must be corrected adding the one in the tables (2160). Some currencies must be updated too (e.g. SEK).151.40.68.58 (talk) 09:22, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Partly done: I updated the map, but I don't know what you mean by updating the currencies. -- MorbidEntree - _{(Talk to me! (っ◕‿◕)っ♥)}(please reply using {{ping}}) 10:14, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I mean swedish wage is lower now expressed in € and same other ones.It is 2523 as wage (see exchange rate).For istance the polish one is lower too than in the map with 723 as net wage (see table).Many things are very dated or wong,even some references.151.40.55.202 (talk) 10:49, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

@MorbidEntree, TechnicianGB, and Bishonen:: this dude is User:Sad9721, who is User:Ambidibody and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Mediolanum/Archive. --Vituzzu (talk) 23:48, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Obviously, if anything, it needs a rangeblock. After checking the SPI and this, I'm pinging @JamesBWatson:. Bishonen | talk 08:30, 23 August 2016 (UTC).

@Vituzzu and Bishonen: My first thought on this was wondering why Bishonen was pinging me about something I knew nothing about, but checking the link she provided I found that I blocked the range back in 2014. I see that at that time I wrote at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mediolanum "the substantial majority of editing in the range is clearly from this editor, and the few edits that may be from other people also contain a significant proportion of edits that are unconstructive, so the amount of collateral damage from a range block is likely to be minimal in comparison to the benefit". I have checked back to the history from 2014, and I can confirm that at that time virtually all of the edits in the IP range were either Mediolanum or other unconstructive editing. I have also checked the editing from the range from the beginning of July 2016 to now. Out of 89 edits from this range, 15 did not appear to be from Mediolanum. 1 of those 15 was clearly vandalism, 6 were acceptable edits, and for the other 8 I couldn't tell whether they were constructive or not without spending time searching for sources. However, a quick glance at edits before July, but without a detailed count, suggests that the situation from July and August is not typical, and usually the proportion of edits that are not from Mediolanum is much lower, more like what I saw in 2014. Also, the 14 edits which were or may have been acceptable were largely minor edits, several of them merely corrections to some others of those 14, so the true proportion of constructive editing was well below 14/89, maybe more like 2/89. I am still inclined to place a range block, but the statistics are not so completely clear cut as last time, so rather than go ahead with a really long block on my own, I would welcome opinions on how long to block to place. This sockpuppeting editor has been using this IP range for unconstructive editing since at least as far back as January 2013 (I haven't checked further back than that), and in that time has clocked up thousands of disruptive edits. If there were no edits in the range from anyone else I would therefore not hesitate to block the range for several years. Do you think that the minority of edits that are constructive is large enough to make that unacceptable, or do you think that it is a level of collateral damage that we will unfortunately have to tolerate? Provisionally, I have blocked the range for a month, but I think we should block for longer than that, and I would welcome opinions on whether to adjust that to a longer block, and if so how long. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:15, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your careful investigation, editor known as JamesBWatson. Considering your findings, I would say block the range for six months, like you did in 2014. At least six months, actually. If you'd like more admin input, there's an ANI thread you can ask in.[1] Bishonen | talk 13:55, 23 August 2016 (UTC).

@Bishonen: Yes, I considered posting to that ANI thread, but I have an aversion to ANI, and on the whole I decided posting here would be enough. However, if you think I should post there, rather than just suggesting I may like to, then let me know and I will do so. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 14:00, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

No, I respect ANI allergies, JamesBWatson. Indeed I have several times self-banned myself from ANI, it was great. I just thought that there may be more people there than here who know about rangeblocks. On the other hand, I'm sure Vituzzu does know, if they care to weigh in here. Bishonen | talk 14:10, 23 August 2016 (UTC).

• Since the only opinion anyone other than me has expressed regarding the range block (either here or at ANI) is Bishonen's view that we should block for "at least six months", and since five previous blocks over a period of two years, including two blocks for six months each, did not put an end to the problem, I am going to block for two years. However, I acknowledge that the amount of time for input has been short, and I am willing to reconsider that if anyone thinks I should. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 13:10, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2016

151.40.1.132 (talk) 01:01, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

The italian net average wage in 2015 is according to Eurostat (see reference: 1 person net wage 100% 1725€ /month (and not 1560€ as reported with a reference from a private 2014 study made by Jp)and 20702€ in a year.So the reference must be deleted and must be added as reference the Eurostat 2015 official report (that i posted) for Italy.On the contrary Spain in 2015 according the same official Eurostat source has a net wage of 20618€ /year (check reference)or 1718€/€ month.Also about Spain must be deleted the not clear and dated references to set the officialEurostat reference that i posted .Thanks.151.40.1.132 (talk) 01:01, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

References

Not done for now: See Talk:Economy of Italy#Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2016 for details.  Rules of engagement Paine  07:37, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

RFC: Merge proposal with List of sovereign states in Europe by minimum wage

There is no consensus to merge List of European countries by average wage with List of sovereign states in Europe by minimum wage.

Supporters said that there is a substantial overlap between the two articles such as the net, gross, and net annual wages; that it is beneficial to be able to compare the minimum wage data and average wage data compared side by side; and that it is a maintenance hassle to have two separate lists.

Opponents said that "minimum wage", which is set by statute, and "average wage", which is an economic statistic, are distinct topics.

Six editors supported a merge. Four editors opposed a merge. There is no consensus.

Cunard (talk) 22:31, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This overlaps with List of sovereign states in Europe by minimum wage. Should these two articles be merged?-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 21:45, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

• Support as proposer. Per WP:OVERLAP, There is significant overlap,you are listing the net, gross, and net annual wages. It seems reasonable to have minimum wage listed here as well. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 21:58, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support. The title should be taken from this article because of some concerns over Kosovo and the word sovereign. 89.164.128.37 (talk) 16:20, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose -- average is not the same thing as minimum Elinruby (talk) 23:34, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
• Qualified support As the proposer says, it should be quite possible to list "minimum wage" in another column, and thereby not lose any information. My question, though, is how the new page would be titiled; it's difficult to express both those concepts in a concise manner. Vanamonde (talk) 03:33, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

  List of European countries by wage, List of European countries by wage statistic, or List of European countries wage statistics. Here's 3 possible examples.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 23:49, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

• Support easy to expand and integrate.Timtempleton (talk) 08:41, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment; I don't have an opinion either way. The lists seem to be related, yes, yet they are distinct. I cannot see why merging them would be of any benefit to the encyclopaedia, though. Could the nom offer a more elaborate policy-based argument? Best, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 16:04, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

  @FoCuSandLeArN: Answered below.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  12:08, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Support - Summoned by bot. Because there is significant overlap, merging the pages wouldn't create too long of an article. Meatsgains (talk) 16:50, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support (as List of European countries by wage per WP:CONCISE), and do more of this for other regions. It's a maintenance hassle to keep such lists separate, and highly prone to PoV-forking along lines of what a "country" versus a "sovereign state" is, and other peculiarly Wikipedian hair-splitting. Anything that's a "country", "nation" or "state" for WP purposes in other contexts (e.g. categorization of articles) should be included, since any given reader is going to have different split hairs, and we do not want the result that thousands of readers cannot find the data point their after because we didn't split the hair the same way. The minimum wage data is also enriched by being comparable in situ to the average wage data; a low-seeming minimum wage may actually be unusually high in some cases as a factor of percentage of average wage, for example.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  12:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose, there's no overlap between minimum wage and average wage. they're two distinct subjects. --HamedH94 (talk) 04:34, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Wage data, that's an overlap. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 13:12, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose "Related" is not the same as "overlap", and Wikipedia already has a huge number of lists of countries order by various statistics. It's not obvious where we draw the lines if we started a big consolidation effort. Chris Hallquist (talk) 03:55, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Though I'm not psychic mind you I do assume List of flags by European country will not be merged here.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 00:36, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose Minimum wages are set by statute, whilst average wages are economic statistics. Hence I don't think they are particularly overlapping - no where near as much as the example in the policy of "flammable" and "non-flammable". Merging the articles would restrict the ability to comfortably add contextual reference data. AndrewRT(Talk) 21:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
• Question If this rfc is successful, presumably it would also be applied to List_of_minimum_wages_by_country & List_of_American_countries_by_average_wage? AndrewRT(Talk) 21:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

No, this RFC would only affect this. The RFC has no focus on any other articles just the ones named and not ones that may or may not exist.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 00:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2016

Estonia's average GROSS salary is 1091 Euros, therefore as per http://www.calkoo.com/?lang=3&page=1 NET wage calculator the NET average salary for ESTONIA is 875€.

Answer199 (talk) 08:14, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@Answer199:  Done MeowMoon (talk) 22:34, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Source for those wondering... If anyone else says otherwise, than please feel free to revert it back... MeowMoon (talk) 22:41, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Map accessibility problem

Much of the map data is not readable for many people with colorblindness of various sorts (even with full color vision it is hard to read, especially the three reddish tones, two of which are not distinct enough) due to lack of sufficient contrast between the numbers and the background color. See MOS:COLOR. The background coloring of the amount boxes needs to be toward the pastel range. The way to do this properly is to reduce the candidate image to greyscale for a test and ensure that a) they're all easily readable even if you squint or stand back, and at small image size, and b) can still be distinguished from each other as different grey shades.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  12:17, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

See salaryexplorer.com

UAE

Gardening / Farming / Fishing $ 16,000 per month

Really?

--Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii 12:32, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2017

Hungary doesn't have wages that high if every worker is included, which I think would be more relevant than presenting incomplete data. The fostered workers shouldn't be excluded from the statistics. http://hungarytoday.hu/news/stats-office-average-gross-wage-hungary-approaching-e1000 Alezelar (talk) 17:07, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Whats wrong with kosovo

Net wage is higher than net Asasninkai (talk) 02:20, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

EU net earnings

For Italy and Spain are reported data of 2015 of NET EARNINGS (and not wages) in the article.Or TechnicianGB sets the same sources for all the states for which Eurostat provides data and renames the article "by net earnings" or Eurostat data must be deleted for these 2 countries.Or people use the same sources with the same method for all the states or this other source must be banned for this 2 countries.If no changes by TechnicianGB with consensus his data from Eurostat references will be deleted.He wrote without consensus.Anioni (talk) 14:30, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

For both countries is reported the data of net earnings and gross earnings, because it's what EUROSTAT offers... an official source. But if you're happier with your recent editions I will not delete them as you are still using the EUROSTAT data.

@Anioni: Consensus? Are you joking? I reverted your redundant changes which you made without any consensus deleting the official Eurostat sources and also changing them by some unuseful sources which weren't talking about the wages but about the politician wages and then an online net wage calcullator and you still come here to try to defend the indefensible? After you were the one who deleted the EUROSTAT initial sources on the page? Unbelievable.

Here [[2]] in the 28th of February more exactly, you started deleting the consensus changes of the page with the official EUROSTAT data in order to add the redundant sources mentioned before. And you accuse me to "edit without consensus" ? Who do you try to trick? All your changes are recorded in the page, lol you changed the data & sources because you wanted!

You maded your own changes without any consensus with unuseful sources (I remember you that the 1st one was using Wikipedia as a source, was using the same source you edited! lol! wikipedia can't be a reference inside Wikipedia!!!) I edit and care for this page much before you were an user here. Looking at your editions you only rage when someone deletes your redundant editions, looking at your editions on the page of Italy you put some extra euros on the official IMF numbers just because you wanted, because the own source doesn't say that. I warned you in your talk page, you deleted the warning and then came here scared fastly to protect your account from a possible temporary block because of your vandalism and now try to change the things? Unbelievable. Both countries use the official EUROSTAT sources, what are you still saying? Are you trolling us or what are you doing? For my part this discussion is done, even EdJohnston noticed you that you didn't want to talk further in your own talk page and you directly deleted the warn... incredible. Look at your contributions, the few ones you did are in the same mood, with tricky sources and with data which can't be proven. And on the same topics. --TechnicianGB (talk) 04:31, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

But by the way, the actual data you modified looks ok to me, even if it's slightly higher than what the source says i'm ok. So conversation closed, ok? Regards --TechnicianGB (talk) 04:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Long talking but it seems you are ignoring what i wrote.First of all other different valid references for Italy were present in this article before.Net earnings aren't average net wages that generally include also helps to families (that are different from state to state) and other things.You must also add reference and relative data for all the other states present in Eurostat.The same method must be used for all the states and the article must be renamed 100% net earning by state.The majority of the states in the list haven't official references and neither official tax calculators.Why don't you act against them?(from here the doubt on your acting moved by anti italian feelings;why only Italy and not Belgium that hasn't official references like many other states in the list?If you are anti italian remember that an italian has around 2 times the net wealth of a spanish and Italy has a net national wealth 2.5 times Spain according to central banks data ,the rest are opinions.To inform you that study economy in october there's the second WEO by IMF)Net earnings 100% aren't net average wages at all.You are lasting in using wrong references without consensus.If you last so your edits will be deleted because reference isn't valid for expressing net average wages.Data are official in Eurostat but it DOESN'T provide net average wage numbers for Italy and all the other states as the article requires.Article asks boots and you offer it shoes.All people realize this reading reference. Anioni (talk) 14:18, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

The national wealth is an utter joke. Italy and Spain richer than Australia, Netherlands and Switzerland?? yeah right and the pigs fly too. Opinions of what? Do you live ina nother reality? Italy hasn't even got a minimum wage and according to the PPP (List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita), which is a good indicator (purchasing power) Italy is 1 step beyond Spain. But this don't even belongs to here, is a completely off topic thing. Did you forget that Italy has also the biggest debt on any European country and it's the 3rd most corrupt country in the EU, after Greece and Bulgaria. The source is an Italian newspaper. I can put many more sources saying the same, by the way.

Anti-italian? Are you trolling? I just tell and put the reality, not anything else. Because I revert your redundant changes and don't accept your fake data i'm "anti-italian"? wow! Must be a joke. Yes, keep threating me that you will delete my edits because after I will reverse any redundant sourced edit then I will notice you for your redundant editions and you will be banned again, as was your last account. Both Spain and Italy have their official EUROSTAT sources. If you want you can put fake data in a blogspot, here that is not tolerated. I've been caring for this article and amending it a long time before you registered on Wikipedia. Anyone can see which kind of editions you make, like the ones you did on the page of Italy, increasing without sources the economic numbers!

I suppose you're still deliberately trolling, in 28 of February (here it is, and several edits after this one, this one was the one which started this [[3]]) you started changing the aspect of this page (which was in consensus from more than a half of a year) and because I reverted your changes without useful sources you tell me that I make changes without consensus? While you're the one who did that are you joking? Who do you try to trick?? For God's sake, look at your wikipedia editions, anyone can see which kind of editions you make! Almost always you're putting fake data in addition with non trustful sources and other even without sources. And always on the same topics! --TechnicianGB (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I will explain you for the last time, as i'm done with you and i'm tired to continue such irrelevant discussion looking at what you reply. You're the only one who has problems with the official EUROSTAT sources, as it was another banned italian user and it were some unregistered users, that's why this page got again semi-protected, for that reason. I will explain you. EUROSTAT offers 2015 official numbers. You can't change the official source for a redundant source like you did talking about the politicians wages in 2013. Or by another even more redundant source taking as source this article on Wikipedia, one of those sources you put were using as a reference this wikipedia article! Wikipedia can't be a reference for a Wikipedia article, seems that you don't know that. Second, it wasn't me but a very reputated user which introduced the official EUROSTAT numbers and no one changed them unless you came doing it in 28 of February with the edition which I reference before. Other countries have data not from EUROSTAT because their governments offer more recent data than 2015 and it's official data. A newspaper article from 2013 talking about politicians is not a valid source, do you understand it? Thanks, for my part this conversation is done, is totally senseless, you're trying to defense the indefensible! --TechnicianGB (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Also in the answer you try to set with anti italian sentiment Italy and Spain in the same ship.Sorry to make you notice that isn't so at all ( from official central banks data Net wealth and List of countries by wealth per adult ).You talked a lot but you didn't answer.You try to set Italy at the same level of Spain by an hidden way of vandalism.100% net earnings data aren't at all average net wages in fact they have different names .Second,why don't you set Eurostat data for other states like Belgium and others that are older than 2013 or haven't statal sources?An what about tax caslculator of other countries that aren't at all official?Your reference for Italy is wrong as i already explained you.Better no data than wrong numbers.Not who talks first, a lot or sometimes offends is right.Your reference of Eurostat has already talked with evidence against you.Anioni (talk) 10:47, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

References

Let's be honest, we both know what's the reason for this "problem with wages". All sources are reliable. Problem is, you, TechnicianGB and some other people are clearly Russians who are just angry because Russia is a poor shithole, you can't even speak English properly, like everyone knows it is. (Sorry, but it's true, I have a right to have my own opinion, even if it's rude). Instead of practising your Russian master trolling, I'd argue you go back to your imageboards and stop raiding this page. I reported you all to administrators. Konecat (talk) 12:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 06 March 2017

New data have come out for Bulgaria (http://bnb.bg/bnbweb/groups/public/documents/bnb_download/s_macro_indicators_a1_pdf_en.pdf), and the average wage for December 2016 is 1012 BGN (see source). Since the page is locked for editing and I can't make any changes, would the person to lock the page be so kind to input the new data?

Field "Net": Change BGN 748 to BGN 793

Field "Gross": Change BGN 954 to BGN 1012

Field "Date": Change 2016-Q3 to 2016-12

Field "Gross €": Change €488 to €521

Field "Net €": Change €383 to €406

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.42.4.191 (talk) 13:40, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Ok I will do it. --TechnicianGB (talk) 23:24, 6 March 2017 (UTC)