Talk:Hurricane Dolores (2015)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hurricane Dolores (2015)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hurricanehink (talk · contribs) 18:11, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

• Link tropical cyclone in the first sentence, not second. Also, don't say "strong" twice in the opening sentence - I'd remove the "strong winds" in California part.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "The fifth tropical depression and second named storm of the record-breaking 2015 Pacific hurricane season, Dolores formed from a tropical wave on July 11" - where?

Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 20:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• "An eyewall replacement cycle began and cooler sea-surface temperatures rapidly weakened the hurricane, and Dolores weakened to a tropical storm two days later." - two days after when? The previous sentence doesn't have any dates.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:13, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Hurricane conditions were reported on Socorro Island, and island in the open Pacific that is owned by Mexico."
  • Done! Also, for these simple mistakes easy to fix, will you mind doing them for me Instead? It’s only one letter. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Heavy rain caused a bridge on Interstate 10 to collapse and injure one person; a road was washed out on California State Route 78 near the California–Arizona border." - inappropriate usage of the semicolon
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• Is it worth adding the peak rainfall total in Cali to the lead?
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Total damage totaled" - department of redundancy department much?
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 1 does not cover the first three sentences of the MH.
  • Done!
• Speaking of refs, the publisher should be "National Hurricane Center", not the URL

• Did you get to this? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Done!

• You kinda gloss over the origins of Dolores, going right from the TW entering the EPAC to it becoming a TD, even though there were three days in between. Try adding more from the TCR and tropical weather outlooks.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
• Link convection. Also, traditionally we add something like "convection, or thunderstorms", so the article isn't so full of jargon/technical terms.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Late that day" - if it's on the 11th, I suggest re-adding the date, because you hadn't mentioned the date since three sentences prior
  • Not done. I still believe that readers will know that it is referring to late on the 11th.~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Late that day, the depression attained tropical storm intensity and received the name Dolores, as a small central dense overcast developed near the low-level center, and a ship near northeastern quadrant reported 35 knots (40 mph) winds." Few problems. Don't use knots in articles. For NHC basins, we use mph first, with km/h in parenthesis. Also, "near northeastern quadrant" is grammatically awkward. I suggest splitting this sentence into two.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Despite environmental conditions that were nearly ideal and largely favorable for strengthening, moderate northwesterly wind shear caused by a upper-level trough prevented much intensification." - that last part isn't true though, as the storm would become a C4 hurricane. Maybe say something like "prevented intensification at first."
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:00, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• "with tropical storm winds not quite reaching the coast of Southwestern Mexico." - this would be more impacts, so it's not really relevant to the MH. Instead, I'd suggest you say something like "Dolores moved northwestward off the southwest coast of Mexico." You don't mention the storm's movement in the first paragraph except for "westward-moving tropical wave"
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:00, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• "The cloud pattern of the storm grew more and more organized throughout July 12, with symmetric and organized convection over the center, causing less impediment from the shear, though outflow remained restricted over the western portion of the system." - I'm not sure if the cloud pattern caused less impediment from the shear, that's a bit confusing.
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:17, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
• Is there a reason you don't mention the upper-level trough that aided in the storm's formation? The TCR said "The genesis of Dolores represents a relatively rare case of tropical cyclone formation in the eastern Pacific associated with the external forcing provided by an upper-level trough" - that seems kinda important
• "Dolores continued to gradually organize and intensify, with dry air entrainments briefly halting intensification." - the "continued" and "briefly halting" are contradictory in the same sentence.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:22, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Wind shear continued to decreased" - grammar
  • Done!
• " with the NHC warning that the system could quickly become a major hurricane" - we don't generally mention NHC predictions if they come true, since it's more important about what the storm actually did.
  • NDone!~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:22, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Six hours later" - from when? There's no date mentioned.
  • Done by removing previous sentences. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:22, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "An automated weather station on the island recording sustained hurricane-force winds. " - grammar. Also, you mention this later in the impacts, so I'm not sure it's needed in the MH
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:10, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "A strengthening trend did not commence" - do you mean "re-strengthening"?
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:22, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "causing the satellite appearance to deteriorate." - this seems unnecessary given the following sentence. Its appearance doesn't matter too much, what matters is what it actually did, and you cover that with "Dolores's structure continued to decay, with an eye no longer apparent and convection waning"
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:22, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "By 12:00 UTC, Dolores had deteriorated to a tropical storm,and with increasing northerly shear, the system eventually degenerated into a post-tropical remnant low about 300 mi (480 km) west of the Baja California coast the next day. " - watch for spacing. I assume the first time reference is July 17 but I'm not sure. I suggest splitting up the sentence, maybe merging the first part into the previous sentence?
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:22, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Due to the fact that tropical storm-force winds may reach the coast, Tropical Storm Watches were issued for parts of the southwestern coast of Mexico, from Lázaro Cárdenas to Cabo Corrientes. " - the "Due to the fact" and "may reach" are wishy washy. Again, focus on what actually happened. In this instance, something like "Due to the potential for tropical storm-force winds to reach the coast..." Also, who issued the TS watches?
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:26, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Rainbands occasionally reached the coast of Mexico, causing some heavy rain, but overall, there was no report of monetary damage in mainland Mexico." - the last part isn't backed up by the source.
  • Done! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:24, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• This source from Mexico provides a rainfall map related to Dolores
• Did you try using any Spanish sources? Try doing a Google search for [huracan dolores], and maybe add "lluvia" (rain). Try this source - [1]
• Don't use nautical miles. We use miles and km.
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:24, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• You mention record monthly rainfall totals in California, but no actual rainfall totals from the storm, just "exceeded 4 in (100 mm)"
• "The Los Angeles Angels game against the Boston Red Sox on July 19, 2015" - we know the year from the beginning of the article
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:24, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Another road was washed out by flash flooding, this time along State Route 78 southwest of Cibola, Arizona" - rm "this time"
  • Done!~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:24, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 25 is broken. Can you find another source crediting Dolores for the $50 million in damage?
  • Done! @Hurricanehink: Also, it's ref 26 that was broken, not ref 25. Ref 25 is still linked to the ncep pence page stating the Dolores caused the damage. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:14, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 28 says "$50.977 million", which doesn't match what you wrote. Also, this is an example of synthesizing data. The source doesn't credit Dolores for all of the damage.
  • Not done. @Hurricanehink: The original damage total, $50.477 million, was subtracted by $500,000 in the season article, which is a GA. The subtraction happened because a wildfire unrelated to Dolores caused $500,000. The rest of the damage seems all attributed to Dolores's storms. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:16, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
    • Since you don't have one source for the damage total, I suggest you don't use NCDC to cite the $50.477, but rather use the individual event reports to add up to the $50.477M. That is, cite the $100,000 in Ordway, and go into a bit more detail if you can. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:47, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
      • As the person who originally found the damage total - I did subtract off $500K from the total since in the list of 77 events only that one wildfire event was unrelated. Using the individual reports may be a bit of a mess though, there are >30 event reports attributing damage to Dolores (though most are below $5000), and just summing the damage values from the twelve events that caused at least $10K in damage gets a total of $50.435M, which doesn't round accurately.~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 11:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
        • It's still a matter of synthesizing the damage total. I'd prefer to see the infobox just say ">$50 million", since adding all of the small totals would give an unnatural precision in the significant figures. It would be one thing if you had a source listing all of the damage totals as one that didn't require you to add them. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
          • @Hurricanehink: Done. It now says ≥$50 million in the infobox. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

The article is decent, but there's still work to be done. Let me know if you have any questions. I'll leave the GAN open for seven days and see where it stands. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:11, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: Wow. thanks for the thorough review. I appreciate the constructive criticism, and I will get to it ASAP. Thanks again! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 22:07, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, did you get to everything? I see you didn't reply to a few comments. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

One missing thing from GAN

Were you able to find a rainfall total for Cali? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:28, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: To be honest - no. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:33, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 22:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Hurricane Dolores caused record-breaking rainfall amounts in Southern California? Source: The Weather Channel
  • ALT1: :... that a bridge carrying Interstate 10 in California was destroyed by flooding from Hurricane Dolores?
  • ALT2:... that thunderstorms from Hurricane Dolores flooded the Moreno Valley, destroyed a bridge on Interstate 10, and struck a man with lightning?Source: NCEINCEI NCEI

Improved to Good Article status by Destroyeraa (talk). Self-nominated at 18:08, 24 September 2020 (UTC).

Destroyeraa: The article is GA, well cited, and no copyvio. The DYKs are backed up with reliable sources. I'm more impartial to ALT0. All good? ~ HAL333 03:20, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

@HAL333: I believe it is. Thank you. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:10, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Perfect. Let's roll. ~ HAL333 19:15, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I also believe the ALT1 should be posted, since it is more interesting and trivial. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Then ALT1 it is. ~ HAL333 22:33, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• Why is ALT1 hooky? It's little more than a news item that could have happened to any bridge in a flood. The point of a "hook" is to reel in the reader to want to click on the article and read more. Neither of these alts are "hooky". Yoninah (talk) 12:36, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: OK? Is a man getting struck by lightning in a thunderstorm hooky? ~ Destroyeraa🌀 12:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

• @Destroyeraa: How about combining a few things – tornados, flooding, and a man struck by lightning in a thunderstorm? Yoninah (talk) 13:03, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Done! Added about flooding the Moreno Valley, destroying I10 bridge, and striking man with lightning. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:17, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Destroyeraa: Great hook wording! I added inline cites to satisfy WP:DYK#Cited hook; please check that they are correct. ALT2 hook refs verified and cited inline. Rest of review per HAL333. ALT2 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 17:41, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• Restoring thread. Destroyeraa, please do not overwrite hooks; it makes it impossible for other editors and promoters to follow the discussion. I have restored the ALT1 hook that was insufficient and renumbered the approved hook as ALT2. Yoninah (talk) 17:44, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you Yoninah. I agree that the new hook (ALT2) is more hooky, as you said. Thank you Yoninah and HAL333 for reviewing. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:15, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Did this get posted yet? ~ Destroyeraa🌀 20:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Destroyeraa: No, we are still waiting for someone to promote it. Be patient. Yoninah (talk) 20:03, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Oh, ok. Sorry. So we're waiting for someone to add it to the DYK box on the main page, since this has already been reviewed and passed. This is my first DYK nom, I honestly don't know what to expect ~ Destroyeraa🌀 20:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Destroyeraa: You can watchlist this page, and when the hook is promoted, T:DYKQ. There are currently 70 approved hooks waiting for promotion, and we promote 56 a week, so this should be going up shortly. Best, Yoninah (talk) 20:09, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Thank you!

Merge this?

Created by sockpuppet.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Reasons: It cause none to minimal damage as a tropical cyclone Rainfall is not damage The damage in Cali is not from Dolores but more from a trough or moisture from Dolores Dolores never made landfall in California Dolores was several hundred miles from California, and it had no thunderstorms, so it's rather unlikely the thunderstorms from Dolores's remnants hit California Thus, the $50 million and 1 death is not from Dolores, but from moisture from the old storm and a trough. 🌀HurricaneJanor (talk) 14:55, 12 November 2020 (UTC) Strong Oppose As creator of this article, I strongly disagree. The sources from NCDC explicitly say that the rainfall and thunderstorms are from the "remnants of Hurricane Dolores." A storm doesn't need to be tropical to affect an area, it can be post-tropical, extratropical, a tropical wave, etc.~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:20, 12 November 2020 (UTC) If that were the case, Tropical Storm Olga (2019) would be merged. HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2020 (UTC) Oppose, and I wish we'd have a three month moratorium on all merges (especially for GA's). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:45, 12 November 2020 (UTC) @Hurricanehink: Can you elaborate a bit please? Thanks. 🌀HurricaneJanor (talk) 15:52, 12 November 2020 (UTC) This is a well-written article, and too much content for the season article. The impacts were largely from the remnants, which are still related to the storm. We have several articles where the bulk of the impacts are related to a storm's remnants. As for a moratorium on merging, I've seen a lot over the last few months. We're spending a lot of time and effort to merge good articles, and not much effort on building up other articles. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:06, 12 November 2020 (UTC) I agree on a moratorium, we need some time to build up other articles like 2008 Pacific hurricane season and 2009 Pacific hurricane season. SMB99thx my edits 00:33, 13 November 2020 (UTC) Oppose The article is well-written and has a decent-sized impact. NoahTalk 19:26, 12 November 2020 (UTC) Strong oppose This is different from merges that I have requested. Dolores did significant damage, which is not the case for the others. SMB99thx my edits 00:31, 13 November 2020 (UTC) Just for the record, HurricaneJanor is a sock of Destroyeraa, per Wikipedia: Sockpuppet investigations/Destroyeraa/Archive. HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 17:35, 1 December 2020 (UTC)