Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Weather

Latest comment: 3 days ago by Hurricanehink in topic Climate of... articles
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Climate of Hungary edit

Hi, there is a debate here that Hungary would be "subtropical" country: Talk:Budapest#Climate

As a local Hungarian person I find that is very fringe, and no any Hungarians would say that Hungary would be "subtropical".

The user refers to Köppen

In the Köppen maps I see Hungary is clearly Dfb, Dfa which is continental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Köppen-Geiger_Climate_Classification_Map.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koppen-Geiger_Map_D_present.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Subtropical.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hungary_map_of_Köppen_climate_classification.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koppen-Geiger_Map_HUN_present.svg

Hungarian wiki writes "continental":

https://hu-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Magyarország_éghajlata?_x_tr_sl=hu&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=hu&_x_tr_pto=wapp

This article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humid_subtropical_climate

"However, while some climatologists have opted to describe this climate type as a "humid subtropical climate",[2] Köppen himself never used this term. The humid subtropical climate classification was officially created under the Trewartha climate classification"

What do you think? OrionNimrod (talk) 17:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That is a blatant misrepresentation of what I said. I did not say that all of Hungary was subtropical. I said that a specific weather station used in the Budapest article has a climate class of Cfa. According to contemporary Köppen rules, with its summer means above 22C and winter means above 0C, it does. This climate class is called humid subtropical climate most commonly, especially on English-language Wikipedia. Therefore I advocated for the use of humid subtropical to define Budapest in terms of the Köppen classification. As for the maps, they use older normals and are of a fixed resolution, which don't take into account recent climate change and most importantly, urban heat islands. Uness232 (talk) 17:16, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see this is a Köppen map from 2023, indeed in that map I see Hungary in Dfa and Cfa (climate change?) https://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41597-023-02549-6/MediaObjects/41597_2023_2549_Fig1_HTML.png?as=webp
Uness232 first referenced the self Wiki link to the Köppen map File:Köppen-Geiger Climate Classification Map.png as reference. I said I see Dfa and Dfb, then Uness232 said the map is wrong, and he referenced that chart https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-023-02549-6/tables/1. But still I cannot see on that reference "humid subtropical" term. OrionNimrod (talk) 17:22, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Budapest is part of Hungary, so if Budapest is "subtropical" then Hungary also... Budapest, city with 2 million people also very big with many different weathers, for example Buda has mountains and Pest is flat, Buda is always more cold than Pest. (personal experience) OrionNimrod (talk) 17:24, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hungarian wiki about Budapest climate: https://hu-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Budapest?_x_tr_sl=hu&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=hu&_x_tr_pto=wapp OrionNimrod (talk) 17:28, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Climate change indeed. See the term "humid subtropical" for Cfa here. Uness232 (talk) 17:36, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Could you answer? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-023-02549-6/tables/1. I cannot see "humid subtropical" term. So yours source does not support your claim. OrionNimrod (talk) 17:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've given you a source. It's on the "here" link. Here's Britannica as well. Uness232 (talk) 17:46, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Again, you sent me the third source which does not support your claim https://www.britannica.com/science/humid-subtropical-climate "This climate type is found on the eastern sides of the continents between 20° and 35° N and S latitude."
Budapest is at 47°
"The coldest month is usually quite mild (5–12 °C [41–54 °F])" This is also not true for Hungary, Hungary is cold in the winter.OrionNimrod (talk) 18:04, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See my response back at Talk: Budapest, please keep the discussion in one place. Uness232 (talk) 18:11, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Uness232, OrionNimrod, I'm not sure if you resolved the issue, but there are new climate maps that were published three months ago.
My original message:
There's an excellent resource created with Koppen climate maps, which will be useful to update current images. They are available here in TIFF format. It's a PITA to work from phone, but maybe desktop guys will help.
According to those maps, most of Budapest is in Dfa/Dfb zones (so continental and not subtropical), but it's also on the fringes of Cfa, which is subtropical. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 23:43, 30 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's fair, but it also conflicts with station data: according to the map, the station in the article would have to be in the Dfa zone, which it is not; it is Cfa. Maps should be secondary to stations, since they are partly model generated and not as accurate for a specific spot. Similarly, the maps show Tekirdağ bordering BSk, but that's because the dataset they use underestimates precipitation in the northern Marmara region (as most precipitation datasets do). Actual station data puts Tekirdağ far above the semi-arid threshold.
Obviously though, most areas around Budapest are Dfa. See the discussion on the Budapest talk page for thoughts on that, and the final compromise. Uness232 (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

2024–25 WikiProject Weather Good Article Reassessment edit

I would like to announce that a new task force has been created to re-examine the status of every GA in the project. Many good articles have not been reviewed in quite a while (15+ years for some) and notability requirements have changed quite a bit over the years. The goal of this task force is to save as many articles as possible. Anyone not reviewing an article may jump in to help get it up to par if it does not meet the GA requirements. The process will start officially on February 1 and will continue until every article has been checked and either kept or delisted. The task force may be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Weather/2024–25 Good Article Reassessment. Noah, AATalk 15:22, 26 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles under review

Merger discussion for Hurricane Cosme (2007) edit

  An article that you have been involved in editing—Hurricane Cosme (2007)—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please follow the (Discuss) link at the top of the article to participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Noah, AATalk 23:25, 30 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merger discussion for Hurricane Isaac (2006) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Karl (1980) edit

  An article that you have been involved in editing—Hurricane Karl (1980)—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please follow the (Discuss) link at the top of the article to participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Noah, AATalk 23:25, 30 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merger discussion for Hurricane Lili (1990) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Danny (2015) edit

  An article that you have been involved in editing—Hurricane Danny (2015)—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please follow the (Discuss) link at the top of the article to participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Noah, AATalk 23:25, 30 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merger discussion for Hurricane Fausto (2002) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Fred (2009) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Ignacio (1985) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Newton (1986) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Octave (1989) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Helene (2006) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Humberto (2001) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Juliette (1995) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Kate (2003) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Lili (1984) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Nora (2003) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Julia (2010) edit

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Merger discussion for Hurricane Karl (2004) edit

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Update climate maps edit

Crossposted from Climate change task force:

There's an excellent resource created with Koppen climate maps, which will be useful to update current climate in country/state X images. They are available here in TIFF format under the same license as the current ones. It's a PITA to work from phone, but maybe desktop guys will help. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 23:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wind shear GAR notice edit

I have given notice at Talk:Wind_shear#GAR_Notice that issues have been identified that would preclude Wind shear from retaining its GA status. The article will be brought to GAR in seven days if nobody indicates a willingness to fix the issues with the article. Noah, AATalk 01:14, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

GAR Notice 3X edit

I have placed GAR notices at Talk:History of surface weather analysis, Talk:History of numerical weather prediction, and Talk:History of Atlantic hurricane warnings. Noah, AATalk 14:06, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mediterranean tropical-like cyclone GAR Notice edit

Mediterranean tropical-like cyclone has a GAR notice due to citation issues and an update needed for the history subsection. Please note the GA nom is retired and scrambled their password. Noah, AATalk 03:08, 4 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Draft:Rain-on-snow edit

I recently started a draft covering rain-on-snow, which is a topic that's been garnering increasing attention and focused research in recent decades due to its wide-ranging and highly consequential effects on people and ecosystems. I am not very familiar with the topic, but it seems noteworthy enough to be the subject of an article and wanted to drop a message here to call attention from those who may be more familiar with the subject. At the moment, the draft is just a quick summation of some of the initial content I found regarding rain-on-snow, so it is probably rather unbalanced and not globally representative. Of course, that will hopefully change as the draft develops. –TheAustinMan(TalkEdits) 22:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Help with a national park edit

Greetings. Can someone here help me get {{weather box}} right for Redwoods National Park? I am trying to match NOWdata to the labels given in the template but am not sure of either. This article Redwood_National_and_State_Parks#Climate is an FA but hasn't been updated for climate since 2006 to 2010 or so. I found the Eureka, CA station, and got NOWdata for the Crescent City, CA area (park service headquarters). That should fulfill our mandate. Should I omit "Mean daily minimum"? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I moved the new numbers out of a sandbox to here. Does it look right? -SusanLesch (talk) 18:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Never mind, I am learning how to do this. Thanks anyway and best of luck to you for your project. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@SusanLesch: first off, thank you for improving an old FA! Also, you added the mean daily temperature, but got rid of mean daily maximum, which you can also find in the NOWdata you cited. Not a huge deal, as there aren't a ton of featured articles that have the climate section. I don't believe that weather chart has been codified, so just the fact you've updated it and cited it is an improvement. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:01, 20 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hurricanehink, thank you for your quick reply. Would you be interested in helping me with articles in Featured article review? Frankly the task is daunting and our chances of success are never great. The {{weatherbox}} confounds me. Now I am working on Minneapolis in my sandbox. What I see is that someone came through and gave complete data but now it's all out of date. If you could help at least until I understand the problem that would be wonderful. In the past I have had to treat climate as a black box. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:31, 22 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@SusanLesch:, count me in. It looks like the information lines up with the National Weather Service website - [1]. The other thing we need to note is that the monthly high/low/average are based on a 30 year average from 1991 to 2020, and also where the averages are based out of. Regarding where the info comes from (and how to cite it), I did some research, but I'm not finding much yet, so I asked an online weather forum (Storm2k), and I emailed the Twin Cities National Weather Service. We're gonna need a source for the weather data going back to 1873, as well as where that location is. Apparently it's the airport now, but it would be good to be able to say when it was placed there, and where it was before. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:40, 23 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, joy! What a relief you are, Hurricanehink.
I am an election worker and unavailable for the most part until March 7. Minneapolis is my priority FAR (after the park, which just got one keep vote!). Discussion could be on Minneapolis talk, or better at Minneapolis FAR. Or I hope you'll be bold and edit in place. I just reverted to four days ago before I started.
My bias, and you can convince me otherwise: I like NOWData and Weather Atlas. NOWData has options dating back to 1873 (and sometimes before). I don't understand why we need outdated sources (NOAA 1991 to 2020, WMO climate normals 1961 to 1990). Perhaps we can present Minneapolis climate more succinctly (maybe a simpler version than the old one could omit relative humidity, dew point and sunny days). Weather Atlas has the UV index by month. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
P.S. Location is explained in a footnote. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@SusanLesch: - done, I believe, added to the Minneapolis article! (hope I didn't mess up)Hurricanehink (talk) 22:34, 24 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wow, you are awesome. Thank you again. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:44, 25 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Squall line edit

Before I nominate the above article for a GA reassessment, is it possible for any editors to cite the tagged unsourced passages in the body? Please ping me if you can/have done so. Many thanks, ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:03, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Move discussion for Tornado outbreak of December 9–10, 2023 edit

There is an ongoing move discussion for the Tornado outbreak of December 9–10, 2023 article. Feel free to participate in it here. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merge Proposal Active For Tornado outbreak of April 19–20, 2023 edit

There is an ongoing merge proposal for Tornado outbreak of April 19–20, 2023. You can participate in the discussion here: Talk:Tornado outbreak of April 19–20, 2023#Merge proposal. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Climate of... articles edit

These three articles are all needed, and are of fairly high importance. They are currently redirects. Recently, I went through the other climate articles to make sure there were links for tornadoes and tropical cyclone effects. Africa, Europe, and Asia are all done, but could use some expansion. I think it's pretty bad that we don't have any articles for these continents, so I made drafts for the continents that need climate articles. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]