Talk:Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia, Duchess of Leuchtenberg

Latest comment: 9 months ago by ModernDayTrilobite in topic Requested move 6 September 2023

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Please consider how this page may be disambiguated with Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia. --Ghirla -трёп- 21:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)Reply

Estate

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Was her art divided among her surviving sons, or among her surviving children? Which son put on the first show (in 1884)? Is "the Hermitage" a particular place? Mdotley 03:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 6 September 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia, Duchess of Leuchtenberg. Consensus that the ducal title makes for a more WP:NATURAL disambiguator than the years of the subject's life. Concerns were raised that the original proposal, which omitted the prefixed "Grand Duchess", might remove too much context about who the figure is; participants thus seem to have converged on the title "Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia, Duchess of Leuchtenberg", which – while it was noted as being quite lengthy – was also found to balance naturalness with informational value. Some discussion also took place about how to romanize the figure's patronymic, and it resulted in a consensus to retain the "Nikolaevna" spelling. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talkcontribs) 14:54, 22 September 2023 (UTC)Reply


Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia (1819–1876)Maria Nikolaevna, Duchess of Leuchtenberg – A daughter of Russia's last emperor had the same name as this woman and a long time ago editors chose to disambiguate them by putting the years of birth and death in this article's name but using her ducal title makes for a more natural disambiguation. Killuminator (talk) 13:45, 6 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Support per nom and WP:NATURAL. I would prefer Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia, Duchess of Leuchtenburg as that's a more common format for deceased consorts, but I can see why some would view that is too long. estar8806 (talk) 20:44, 6 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
I would also note that this Grand Duchess appears to use Nikolaievna or Nikolayevna as a patronymic, as opposed to the other Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia. While it might be too small of a difference to warrant no disambiguator, though I personally think a hatnote would be okay to solve confusion, it probably should be considered as to whether a new title (whatever that may be) should use the different spelling. estar8806 (talk) 20:50, 6 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
How did you determine that? Maria Nikolaevna appears to be by far the most common spelling.[1]  —Michael Z. 19:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
By simply looking through the sources for this article. There was another Maria Nikolaevna, which likely has some effect on the ngrams especially considering she is far more notable than this one. I'm simply saying that the spelling could have been different. The prose of this article consistently uses "Maria Nikolaievna". estar8806 (talk) 19:38, 7 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
But gauging the COMMONNAME is based on the corpus of reliable sources, not just the literal handful cited here.
Your argument implies that each spelling is inherently associated with a particular Maria Nikolaevna. Dubious. I would wager that any source that mentions both people will spell their names the same way.
If there was a way to separate search results that refer to the one or the other, we might or might not find that each is spelled more frequently one way or another. I would still maintain that that’s not significant. But anyway, no one has demonstrated that it’s the case.
They should both be spelled the same way, unless there’s an evidence-based reason not to.  —Michael Z. 21:47, 7 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.