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Proper English toponym?Edit

What's the authority for Drave being the proper English toponym as User:XJamRastafire described it in his edit of May 30 2003? I note that the English-language link to MSN Encarta refers to the river as the Drava. Valiantis 20:29, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Further to the above, a selection of English-language websites from Google which use the term Drava. I've tried to note sites that refer to the Drava in regard to more than one of the countries it flows through as these should give the best indication of the current English usage: -
There are far fewer references to Drave and these are primarily in webpages culled from Wikipedia itself and in (Columbia Encyclopedia) and Encarta as well as other websites culled from these. Both the latter give Drave as an alternative secondary form. also refers to Drave as an alternative form of Drava but states the pronunciation of both is drä'və (i.e. drah-va). This strongly suggests that Drave is as much a non-English form as Drava. Valiantis 21:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
In the absence of any comments I'm planning to move the article to Drava on the following bases:-
  • Drava is far more commonly used in English-language texts than Drave.
  • Drava and Drave both appear to have a pronunciation of /ˈdɹɑːvə/ (rhymes with lava). The spelling Drava more closely reflects this pronunciation to an anglophone reader than Drave, which might be taken to be pronounced /dɹeɪv/ (rhymes with save).
Objections? Valiantis 15:47, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
No objections made.
I've done some more googling and note that Drave is used primarily in older sources - notably Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica and the Catholic Encyclopedia. More modern sources, as already mentioned, prefer Drava. The older sources also refer to the Sava as the Save, though Wikipedia lists this only as an alternative name. There has certainly been a trend in recent decades to use indigenous names rather than anglicised names (if indeed Drave is anglicised - see above) - one seldom hears reference nowadays to Brunswick (Braunschweig) or Leghorn (Livorno) (except where Canadian provinces and chickens respectively are concerned). It seems that Drave has fallen to this trend and I am therefore moving the page to Drava with an opening sentence: -
The Drava or Drave is [...] a river (etc.). Valiantis 18:37, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

The Drava or Drau in German was called Duras in roman times as cited in Strabo Geographica. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

"In the ancient times the river was called Dravus. The name is most likely Celtic or pre-Celtic in origin (see Old European hydronymy). "

This sentence is pure speculation and nonsense. There is NO OTHER NEURO LINGUAL CONTAINER FOR WORD "DRAVA", "DRVETI", "DRAVATI", "DVARA" than in Slovene (Veneti) or Sanskrit. It means "to run" (fast).

Slovene territory, including other Austria, Germany, Scandinavia, Russia,India,etc were part of Bharat (also read MAHA-BHARATA) territory (still in cca 5000 BC). Slavic language is most closest to Sanskrit, simply because the ancient Rishis spoko ALSO Slavic and Sanskrit. The same is with Slavic gods: example; Sanskrit god "VARUNA" is Slavic "SVARUN" or Svarog in Svarga (our milky way or Swastika; in Sanskrit and Slavic (old Vendic) languages means the SAME) Second biggest river in Slovenia is Sava. Romans named it "Savus" - they added "us". When originally represented the Shiva's (Zhiva's) realm of "Slava" (glorious). Sava, Saba, Slava. Shivait Slavic temple was in Bled (on the island), before Roman catholic (Osirian cult) invadors destroyed it in times of Karantania. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:25, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

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