Talk:Abi Carter

Violation of WP:COATRACK

I deleted the following content and have explained to the article's creator that it violates WP:COATRACK, but they have restored it without explaining its relevance to Abi.

(TB is a chain of restaurants and bars). TBMB is about a block south of O'Donnell Golf Course. The course was the first golf course built in the Coachella Valley. After Tom O'Donnell financed the expansion of The Desert Inn, Nellie Coffman who was the owner of the hotel lease O'Donnell land for him to build his golf course.

This article is about Abi, not those people or locations, so this is far too much detail about stuff where even the reference doesn't mention her. It doesn't belong in this article. It also seems promotional, so that's one more strike against it.

That content should be deleted. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree. I've deleted it. Philomathes2357 (talk) 05:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I put it back. You are improperly connected to Valjean. Headtothestripe (talk) 06:28, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Improperly connected? That is an inversion of reality.

If anything, my relationship with Valjean is contentious. In fact, I disagree with much of what he does, and vice versa, which is why I glance at his contribution history from time to time - this is a case where he is simply correct, in an obvious, clear-cut way. There is no serious argument whatsoever for including the content. It does not merit further discussion.

@Headtothestripe, I am going to remove it again. You should be aware of this policy. If there is any reasonable argument for including the content, someone else will come along and agree with you. But that is not going to happen.

I do not wish to sound rude, I'm just being blunt. I suggest reading WP:COATRACK if you are taken aback by this. I hope you continue trying to improve Wikipedia in other ways. Philomathes2357 (talk) 06:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

You are impolite. You have no business "currying favor" or going around following Valjean to make them happier. I can debate the editing part, but you are wrong. This Wikipedia stuff is juvenile, your behavior even more so. Headtothestripe (talk) 06:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Headtothestripe, you owe Philomathes2357 and me big apologies. You are personalizing this, making personal attacks, and assuming bad faith. You must not discuss the editor's motives, just the content and policies. You must always assume good faith. I can assure you that Philomathes2357 isn't doing anything for me or to curry my favor. They just happen to understand our policies and guidelines much better than you and are doing the right thing. You are a newbie here and need to learn from more experienced editors. If you persist, I'll open a case against you at WP:ANI where you will likely get blocked for your ownership behavior. You need to drop the stick. You are the one being impolite. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I am about to open a case of making threats against you. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

You making threats. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

You are rude. Many of you have been. If you want everything to be about "content" I can argue or debate your lack of sensibilities or interests when it comes to including facts in articles. I have said this elsewhere. Performers put shows on in more than one venue, sometimes in places right next door to another. What I was trying to say and it seems two or three of you are missing the "connection" is the following. Abi Carter performed at TB. She may well have performed at the golf course. The course is the oldest one in the city. Even if she didn't have a show there if you research or look up TB it has relevance to the course itself. NONE of you wanted Carter to have this article earlier and you are causing grief now. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

If you have a connection with the golf course, whether personal or professional, you must disclose it per WP:Conflict of interest. Now would be the perfect time to explain why you have persistently added info about a golf course with no discernible connection to Abi Carter, the subject of this article. "She may well have performed there" is not an adequate explanation. Wikishovel (talk) 22:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Outlandish. I am saying you (the four or however many there are of you) are taking information off off the article for no reason. You could hop around this site and do that with any other articles-why this one? I said TB is a venue which you could look up the connections to the course. I have to list each of the things you are taking off the article? To get you to leave it there? Headtothestripe (talk) 22:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Please confirm whether or not you have a connection to the golf course, either personal or professional, right now. We are waiting for your answer. Wikishovel (talk) 22:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I'm really wondering the same thing. Why the obsession with mentioning a golf course without any reliable source connecting it to Abi? That content is a classic WP:COATRACK violation, and the behavior is classic ownership behavior. With so many warnings from so many editors, including administrators, one would hope for a change in behavior, but alas.

The distances to other cities is also irrelevant. Anyone can click the wikilink to Indio and look it up if they wonder where it's located. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Deleting secondary info

Valjean, make your case here. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I asked Valjean to say what changes they wanted to see made. They aren't doing that. Headtothestripe (talk) 22:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

My edit summaries here and explanations on my talk page contain sufficient information, but you keep reverting to your preferred version, which happens to violate our policies. Stop the edit warring and ONLY discuss until there is a consensus. If you want to open a case against me, please do it right away at WP:ANI before I open a case against you there. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I asked for a list of changes you are attempting or wanting to make. Headtothestripe (talk) 22:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Headtothestripe, I already made the improvements so the article would be in harmony with our manual of style guidelines, and I have also removed the content that violates them, but you have reverted those improvements. That's not good. The article is currently in violation.

I'm going to step back for a bit and see what happens before taking more serious action. Maybe others will be able to convince you. You should be asking yourself why you are getting so much resistance from so many editors. The fact that you just delete the warnings from your talk page doesn't mean you can ignore them. When you delete a warning, that means you have read it and will heed it. You are not doing that. Do you think we can't see that you are deleting those warnings and then ignoring them by continuing to violate them? -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

(PING me) 00:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Why should I give you a "list of changes"? You don't own this article. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Please use edit summaries that are related to what you did. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 23:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Headtothestripe has been blocked for one week. Now we can make some progress in bringing this article up to our standards and in harmony with our MOS and PAG. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

They are now indeffed for sockpuppetry. -- Valjean (talk)

Refs

When Valjean created whichever system of formatting for references they were adding for Abi Carter, there's one problem. In footnotes you should be able to still read (without having to hover over the particular ref with a cursor) the following: American Songwriter, USA Today, Desert Sun, Yahoo, Parade, etc. If the format method is being implemented the names of the publications are being left out in the footnotes section. Headtothestripe (talk) 05:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I didn't originally create those refs, but have begun to repair some. I'll fix more later. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm finished improving the ref formats so they are standard Harvard style ref names, with all information, and with spacing so they line break when editing. That makes it easier. I haven't yet added wikilinks for all the publishers. Will work on that now. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Busking

We need sourcing for this. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Religion

I agree with Wikishovel that "religious family" is currently the best we can do. We can't even say that she is personally religious. There is a lot of speculation online, so we must be careful. If anyone can find anything more precise from RS, then please improve this content. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 12:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

BTW, although some religious people are teetotalers, Abi apparently isn't, at least not so much that she can't enjoy a shot (at the end). -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 13:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Boyfriend

I added content about her boyfriend. I was in doubt, but the source did point to a post on his Instagram where she calls him "my love" ("Thank you so much my love, couldn’t have done it without you 💕"), and they do seem to be in a relationship. We don't have to say more about him as this article isn't about him. It would be nice to have even more RS added to bolster that content. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 13:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Interviews

A few interviews. Feel free to add more:

• Abi Carter and Will Moseley talk 'American Idol' journey, Good Morning America

• American Idol: Abi Carter REACTS to Season 22 WIN! (Exclusive), Entertainment Tonight
• American Idol Winner Abi Carter, Live with Kelly and Mark
• Abi Carter reflects on her American Idol win, her loyal fans, and teases what's coming up next, FanSided Entertainment
• 'Idol' Winner Abi Carter Reveals Heartbreaking Story Behind Her New Song (Exclusive)

Valjean (talk) (PING me) 13:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

References