User talk:Lee Vilenski/Archives/2023/November
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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WikiCup 2023 November newsletter
The WikiCup is a marathon rather than a sprint and all those reaching the final round have been involved in the competition for the last ten months, improving Wikipedia vastly during the process. After all this hard work, 
BeanieFan11 has emerged as the 2023 winner and the WikiCup Champion. The finalists this year were:-
BeanieFan11 with 2582 points
Thebiguglyalien with 1615 points
Epicgenius with 1518 points
MyCatIsAChonk with 1012 points
BennyOnTheLoose with 974 points
AirshipJungleman29 with 673 points
Sammi Brie with 520 points
Unlimitedlead with 5 points
Congratulations to everyone who participated in this year's WikiCup, whether they made it to the final round or not, and particular congratulations to the newcomers to the competition, some of whom did very well. Wikipedia has benefitted greatly from the quality creations, expansions and improvements made, and the numerous reviews performed. All those who reached the final round will win awards. The following special awards will be made based on high performance in particular areas of content creation and review. Awards will be handed out in the next few days.
- Unlimitedlead wins the featured article prize, for 7 FAs in total including 3 in round 2.
- MyCatIsAChonk wins the featured list prize, for 5 FLs in total.
Lee Vilenski wins the featured topic prize, for a 6-article featured topic in round 4.- MyCatIsAChonk wins the featured picture prize, for 6 FPs in total.
- BeanieFan11 wins the good article prize, for 75 GAs in total, including 61 in the final round.
- Epicgenius wins the good topic prize, for a 41-article good topic in the final round.
LunaEatsTuna wins the GA reviewer prize, for 70 GA reviews in round 1.- MyCatIsAChonk wins the FA reviewer prize, for 66 FA reviews in the final round.
- Epicgenius wins the DYK prize, for 49 did you know articles in total.
Muboshgu wins the ITN prize, for 46 in the news articles in total.
The WikiCup has run every year since 2007. With the 2023 contest now concluded, I will be standing down as a judge due to real life commitments, so I hope that another editor will take over running the competition. Please get in touch if you are interested. Next year's competition will hopefully begin on 1 January 2024. You are invited to sign up to participate in the contest; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors. It only remains to congratulate our worthy winners once again and thank all participants for their involvement! (If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send.) Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:51, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
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| my story today |
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- Congratulations! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:46, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
When you have a moment, could you head over to this article (it’s Dutch Survivor) and weigh in on the never-ending rigamarole with the colors on the voting table. Thank you! Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 6 November 2023
- Arbitration report: Admin bewilderingly unmasks self as sockpuppet of other admin who was extremely banned in 2015
- In the media: UK shadow chancellor accused of ripping off WP articles for book, Wikipedians accused of being dicks by a rich man
- Opinion: An open letter to Elon Musk
- WikiCup report: The WikiCup 2023
- News from Wiki Ed: Equity lists on Wikipedia
- Recent research: How English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades
- Featured content: Like putting a golf course in a historic site.
- Traffic report: Cricket jumpscare
Administrators' newsletter – November 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2023).
Administrator changes
Interface administrator changes
Guideline and policy news
Technical news
- The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
- There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal is requested.
Arbitration
- Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections.
- Xaosflux, RoySmith and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee Elections. BusterD is the reserve commissioner.
- Following a motion, the contentious topic designation of Prem Rawat has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
- Following several motions, multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the Editor conduct in e-cigs articles, Liancourt Rocks, Longevity, Medicine, September 11 conspiracy theories, and Shakespeare authorship question cases.
- Following a motion, remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the Macedonia 2 case have been rescinded.
- Following a motion, remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the The Troubles case has been amended.
- An arbitration case named Industrial agriculture has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.
Miscellaneous
- The Articles for Creation backlog drive is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in the Gadgets settings. Sign up here to participate!
WikiCup awards
- I totally forgot about these awards! Well run competition as always! Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:14, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment
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The Signpost: 20 November 2023
- In the media: Propaganda and photos, lunatics and a lunar backup
- News and notes: Update on Wikimedia's financial health
- Traffic report: If it bleeds, it leads
- Recent research: Canceling disputes as the real function of ArbCom
- Wikimania: Wikimania 2024 scholarships
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Your GA nomination of Horace Lindrum
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; see Talk:Horace Lindrum for comments about the article, and Talk:Horace Lindrum/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Simongraham -- Simongraham (talk) 00:43, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
2023 UK Championship - Neil Robertson
Thank you for cleaning up the text! Although, Neil Robertson hasn't entered the remaining events in 2023 so his winning streak has ended. See this reference. No Neil in either the Shoot Out or Scottish Open. AmethystZhou (talk) 23:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- No drama. That's fine then. There was no reference about it. Happy for that to be reintroduced to the image caption and prose. Will take a bit of time and clean up the prose.
- Just a note - not sure who added them, but scores don't require a nowrap tag, as it is built into emdash. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 23:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- The WST page was referenced at the end of that paragraph, I'll add a separate reference to the claim. And thanks for the note on nowrap, I didn't know that! @AlH42 you might want to check this out as I think you were the first to add them. AmethystZhou (talk) 23:43, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Yes it was me, and I did it because the scores with ndash were wrapping. Alan (talk) 06:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Lee Vilenski: @AmethystZhou: And now that you've taken them all out, they are wrapping and (IMO) look horrible. Alan (talk) 08:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- That's weird, on my end (Firefox on Windows 10) if I resize the browser window it doesn't wrap the score for me. AmethystZhou (talk) 08:33, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Indeed. More likely something odd on your browser. H:LINEBREAK is the place to have a read about this, but WP:NOWRAP isn't a suitable use. It is generally just as endash, see MOS:RANGE for some details, we'd probably need a large consensus that nowrapping is a suitable solution to this problem. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm using Microsoft Edge on Windows 10. We need to accommodate all browsers. Have a look at the table I've made in my sandbox. Without using {{nowrap}} the scores look awful on mine. Alan (talk) 10:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Very interesting, all three without the template are wrapping on my iPad, as well. AmethystZhou (talk) 12:06, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't know what you mean. Are they wrapping properly or not? On my PC, the right-hand column looks like this for the hyphen:
- Text before 6-
4 - like this for the ndash:
- Text before 6–
4 - and like this for the mdash:
- Text before 6
—4 - Alan (talk) 12:38, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, yes, that’s what I see on my iPad. They are split into two lines without the template. AmethystZhou (talk) 12:40, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Good - so it isn't just me! So what is the solution? Now that all the nowraps have been taken out, the article looks awful to me. Alan (talk) 12:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Lee Vilenski: Maybe we need to create a template where you would type something like:
{{snooker-score|6|4}}
which could transclude the {{nowrap}} template and automatically insert the {{tl|ndash}}. Alan (talk) 13:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)- It's not really as simple as just creating a new template. I don't think this is within policy. Despite what people believe, we don't "fix" Wikipedia to fit browsers. I've started up a topic at WT:MOS for some more input. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:59, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Lee Vilenski: Maybe we need to create a template where you would type something like:
- Good - so it isn't just me! So what is the solution? Now that all the nowraps have been taken out, the article looks awful to me. Alan (talk) 12:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Isn't this what {{nbnd}} is for? Nigej (talk) 16:12, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I didn't know that existed. Just checked it out in my sandbox and it works well. Thank you. Alan (talk) 16:24, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- We should really still ask the question, because it's not mentioned as an exception at WP:NOWRAP and we just use endashes at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Snooker. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- MOS:ENBETWEEN does say that we should use endash in "a 51–30 win" without mentioning any sort of wrapping issue. H:LINEBREAK#Non-breaking hyphen mentions the non-breaking hyphen but says "Avoid using it unless it is really necessary to avoid a line break." and I guess the same might well apply to the non-breaking endash. Nigej (talk) 18:22, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I can't find anthing in Help:Line-break handling, Wikipedia:Manual of Style, or Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Snooker that says we shouldn't use {{nowrap}} or {{nbnd}} in the way I did. In fact Help:Line-break handling says that {{nowrap}} is good for short text sections like "10 kg (22 lb)", which should always stay together. This, I think, applies to scores. The Wikipedia:Manual of Style says It is sometimes desirable to force a text segment to appear entirely on a single line—that is, to prevent a line break (line wrap) from occurring anywhere within it. and I think this applies here also. Alan (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- But the MOS not saying we shouldn't use it doesn't mean that the MOS says we should use it. There's hundreds of thousands of sports articles on Wikipedia that use dashes like this for scores. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:22, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think that's a valid argument. The MOS etc. doesn't seem to have a rule about using or not using {{nowrap}} other than saying it is "good for short text sections" and "sometimes desirable to force a text segment to appear entirely on a single line." And the fact that we have been doing something a particular way in many articles does not mean we must continue to do so. Alan (talk) 10:24, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, I think I mis-represented what I meant. I meant that we should find out what the consensus is, rather than change this on specific pages. If it is suitable to use these dashes in {{nbnd}}, we should make that change wholesale (using AWB or similar). We do have to be careful when it comes to nowrap, as we have seen people use this to wrap long names (such as writing {{nowrap|Thepchiaya Un-Nooh}}) which actually causes issues on mobile view. I agree that these terms should not wrap, I've just not experienced this doing this before. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:34, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think that's a valid argument. The MOS etc. doesn't seem to have a rule about using or not using {{nowrap}} other than saying it is "good for short text sections" and "sometimes desirable to force a text segment to appear entirely on a single line." And the fact that we have been doing something a particular way in many articles does not mean we must continue to do so. Alan (talk) 10:24, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- But the MOS not saying we shouldn't use it doesn't mean that the MOS says we should use it. There's hundreds of thousands of sports articles on Wikipedia that use dashes like this for scores. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:22, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I can't find anthing in Help:Line-break handling, Wikipedia:Manual of Style, or Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Snooker that says we shouldn't use {{nowrap}} or {{nbnd}} in the way I did. In fact Help:Line-break handling says that {{nowrap}} is good for short text sections like "10 kg (22 lb)", which should always stay together. This, I think, applies to scores. The Wikipedia:Manual of Style says It is sometimes desirable to force a text segment to appear entirely on a single line—that is, to prevent a line break (line wrap) from occurring anywhere within it. and I think this applies here also. Alan (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- MOS:ENBETWEEN does say that we should use endash in "a 51–30 win" without mentioning any sort of wrapping issue. H:LINEBREAK#Non-breaking hyphen mentions the non-breaking hyphen but says "Avoid using it unless it is really necessary to avoid a line break." and I guess the same might well apply to the non-breaking endash. Nigej (talk) 18:22, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- We should really still ask the question, because it's not mentioned as an exception at WP:NOWRAP and we just use endashes at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Snooker. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I didn't know that existed. Just checked it out in my sandbox and it works well. Thank you. Alan (talk) 16:24, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I think the nowrap function of a plain endash "–" character is built-into browsers, but not Wikipedia itself, so you are seeing various results on different browsers. AmethystZhou (talk) 22:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I suspect so. I have asked that question at WT:MOS#NOWRAP on sports scores. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:33, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- @AmethystZhou: I think you said earlier that you had the same problem using an iPad, so it isn't just MS-Edge. Alan (talk) 10:11, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, yes, that’s what I see on my iPad. They are split into two lines without the template. AmethystZhou (talk) 12:40, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Very interesting, all three without the template are wrapping on my iPad, as well. AmethystZhou (talk) 12:06, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm using Microsoft Edge on Windows 10. We need to accommodate all browsers. Have a look at the table I've made in my sandbox. Without using {{nowrap}} the scores look awful on mine. Alan (talk) 10:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Indeed. More likely something odd on your browser. H:LINEBREAK is the place to have a read about this, but WP:NOWRAP isn't a suitable use. It is generally just as endash, see MOS:RANGE for some details, we'd probably need a large consensus that nowrapping is a suitable solution to this problem. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- That's weird, on my end (Firefox on Windows 10) if I resize the browser window it doesn't wrap the score for me. AmethystZhou (talk) 08:33, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Lee Vilenski: @AmethystZhou: And now that you've taken them all out, they are wrapping and (IMO) look horrible. Alan (talk) 08:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Yes it was me, and I did it because the scores with ndash were wrapping. Alan (talk) 06:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- The WST page was referenced at the end of that paragraph, I'll add a separate reference to the claim. And thanks for the note on nowrap, I didn't know that! @AlH42 you might want to check this out as I think you were the first to add them. AmethystZhou (talk) 23:43, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
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Qatari support for Hamas
Hello! I'm a new contributor on Wikipedia and I would like to draw your attention on the page "Qatari support for Hamas", as i have noticed a new separate page of 2023 Israel- Hamas war/Hamas with the name of "Qatari support for Hamas". As per my analysis, the content of the page is copied from the above mentioned pages. And, there is no such need of separate page for that particular topic, which is a violation of Wikipedia policies in my eyes. Furthermore, I have reverted multiple times and the reverts were acknowledged by some contributors but some contributors (Orgullomoore, Loksmythe) think otherwise. When i tried to attempt more contributions on that page, they implemented extended confirmed access protection which seems to suppress the rights of the new contributors. So, i request you to acknowledge my concern and put the page under speedy deletion review. Thank you Contributor00001 (talk) 07:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)