User talk:Durova/Archive 45

Royal abdication

Hi Durova, and Happy New Year!

I was really touched by your and Filll's coronation, but I don't think that I deserve it. :( To be sure, I've helped out with a few Featured Articles and I earned one DYK very early in my Wiki-career (the funny story about Edwin Joseph Cohn's blood-protein purification demonstration). But I don't really have any Good Articles to my credit. I feel that I did help Harold Pinter become a Good Article, but my contributions were paltry and trivial compared to the amazing work of NYScholar, who deserves all the credit for that article. I hope to earn a Good Article someday, perhaps for Usher syndrome or Catullus 2 or Soddy's hexlet, but so far it's eluded me.

So I have to lay your three-fold crowns back at your feet until I do earn them. Much as I admire Freya, I can't wear a cloak of borrowed feathers. :)

If you have any tips for me, that'd be great! I've been a little despondent at how seldom my articles are awarded a DYK. :( I've started about 4000 referenced articles by now and only 1 has ever gotten a DYK; I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Admittedly, they're usually on pretty technical subjects that a general reader would probably find boring. :( Willow (talk) 20:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Before we start the interregnum, please remember that the standard threshold for qualification is 10 line citations. You don't have to be the principal contributor to achieve that. Would you double check and confirm before I downgrade the award?

And regarding DYKs, nearly all of my submissions have been accepted. You're welcome to show me your new work and I'll see what I can do about helping you draft a good hook. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 20:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your speedy reply and offer of help! I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I didn't know that we're supposed to submit our own work for DYK; the Edwin Cohn DYK just happened without me doing anything. Unfortunately, I think I'm done creating new articles for the time being; I've already started too many articles that need improvement desperately.

I'm not sure what you mean by "line citations" — is that the same as "inline citations"? However, I just reviewed my work at Harold Pinter and I can safely say that I didn't contribute any references. My main contributions were minor re-wordings and re-arrangements of the prose to improve the flow and to make the article pithier and more easily intelligible to lay-people. The content of the article derives entirely from NYScholar. Willow (talk) 21:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, inline citations. All right; I'll see what I can do. I got pretty lucky with DYK: one of the first articles I ever started was a collaboration with Ghirlandajo who's an old hand at this. I was surprised to get a DYK nod for it, then looked around and figured out how it works. Probably I could have earned several other DYKs that I didn't try for. Lately I've been rebuilding Wikipedia:WikiProject Textile Arts so I've been writing more DYKs to bring attention to the project. Regards, Durova^Charge! 21:39, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I really appreciate all your work there! :D I started the TA WikiProject, but after making its main page and article assessment system, I got pulled away by a bazillion people asking me to work on other things. :( I feel awful about abandoning PKM, Calliopejen1 and the others, and I get mad at myself for getting distracted every day by something new — blah. I'll try to make your crochet symbols tonight, though. :) Willow (talk) 21:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I joined that last summer when the project was pretty healthy and did some low key work, not noticing how participation was dropping off. After I handed in my bit and had more time for mainspace work I realized how much attention was needed. Spam had even crept into the templates! Most of the work I've done since then is very unglamorous (stub sorting, despamification, template updates) so I threw in a few DYKs because nobody much notices a brilliant new stub category. ;) Durova^Charge! 23:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Great and gracious lady, your symbols await your craft. :)

I used the following book as my reference

• Pauline Turner (2001). How to crochet. London: Collins and Brown. pp. p. 150. ISBN 1-85585-827-4. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

but then I noticed that a slightly newer book in my library has more and slightly different symbols (the crossbars are at right angles, instead of beveled)

• Donna Kooler (2002). Donna Kooler's Encyclopedia of Crochet. Little Rock, AR: Leisure Arts. pp. p. 23. ISBN 1-57486-282-0. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

Do you have a preference? It wouldn't take much more work to add the other symbols, although I'd have to do it tomorrow night, when I'm better rested. I'm a little under the weather at the moment. :P Willow (talk) 07:00, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

PS. I really need to shed that Freya cloak, I'm feeling really uncomfortable; please forgive me.

I made these to illustrate thread weight for crochet thread. You're one of the few Wikipedians who can appreciate how much work was behind this photo.

Gorgeous, thank you! London and Little Rock, eh? I'll have to check this against Debbie Stoller to make sure whether you've chosen American or British terminology. I'm a southpaw myself, which means I look at the books just long enough to imagine geometric inversions and then create my own designs. I've just finished a Kleenex box cover in scallop stitching (four American double stitches into a single stitch, skip one, anchor with a flat stitch, repeat ad nauseam). Think you could do a schematic for that? I managed a DYK for granny square and maybe an article for scallop stitches could get there too.

The advantage of this habit is that I can upload photos of everything I crochet to Commons because I own all the underlying creative copyrights. The downside is that I don't read crochet patterns. I'm like the musician who creates songs without knowing how to read music. Someday some poor right hander is going to try to duplicate my illustrations and she'll be in for a nasty surprise. ;)

I'm a better embroiderer and can duplicate any stitch or schematic I see. And where stitch orientation is an issue I just rotate the piece and work upside down. But not much of that is uploadable because I tend to follow patterns. I keep eyeing a piece on my wall and wishing I could use it to illustrate the candlewicking article, but durnit the thing is someone else's copyrighted design. Durova^Charge! 07:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

What a fun letter! :) I can't tell you how wonderful it is to meet another crafter here; I was awfully lonesome when I first got here. :( My main love is knitting, which I'm pretty good at; but as I'm sure you know, knitting and crochet are as close as cousins, and I do crochet for fun and to make presents and vase-doilies. I love the way you can go in any direction with crochet, and also how its easy shaping and stiffness are wonderful for making little two- and three-dimensional figures like angels. I also use crochet doilies to illustrate the principles of curvature to my knitting students: too few increases = a cup, too many = a frill, just right = flat circle. I wonder that mathematicians don't do likewise! I'm pretty lame at embroidery, although I use it as duplicate stitch (Swiss darning) in knitting, to make flowers and leaves and to give the illusion that I can knit in a perfect circle, each stitch suspended from the next; it's wonderfully mystifying (and instructive) for some students. ;)

I'm pretty flexible about instructions vs. charts, but I usually use them only at the beginning; once I figure out the pattern by doing a swatch, I rarely look at them, because you can see from the stitches themselves where you are on the pattern. It's a lot safer than trying to follow written instructions exactly (which sometimes have mistakes in them!), and it lets you adjust the pattern to fit your gauge. I'm not like some people who can watch television and knit; I have to look, but my fingers do develop a pattern memory of their own, so that I'm usually not thinking about the knitting as I do it; my mind wanders off to happy, sunny fields populated by friends and kind words. :) Willow (talk) 08:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

PS. I'm pretty sure that I used the American terminology throughout, but please correct me if I'm mistaken; two heads are better than one! :)

So you teach knitting? That's far more advanced than me. I've made a few sweaters that way and occasionally even follow patterns. One of the tests I set for myself in the German language was to get a sweater pattern. The thing was actually wearable when I finished, so I passed the exam. :) But it's so much slower than crochet. Durova^Charge! 08:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not that good — I wouldn't want to excite your anticipation, only to disappoint. :( But I do love teaching and gabbing with fellow knitters in a circle. :) I used to go to a spinning circle every week, which was a lot of fun too, but I'm running out of time these days.

I'll be happy to make you a diagram for the scallop stitch, but I know it a little differently? I'm guessing you mean a solid shell stitch, which I would do as "* 5 dc's into previous sc, sk 2 dc's, sc into middle dc, sk 2 dc *" and half-stagger on the next row? Please let me know exactly what you'd like and I'll try to draw that.

As it turned out, I didn't get a camera for Christmas, but by good fortune, I have a friend visiting who loaned me hers. So I dashed off a series of pictures for knitting that I've been thinking about for some time, although they didn't turn out too well. :( But maybe they'll inspire someone to do them better? I'll crop them and upload them later tonight. I also took two crochet pictures that I thought you might enjoy for articles on filet and scallop stitch — well, really, fan stitch, but you know it's almost the same. Right now, though, I have to finish typing in some things for Awadewit, who's been far more patient with me than I deserve. :) Willow (talk) 23:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll upload the pic later tonight. Right now I'm finishing up smocking for DYK before I head out to a party. I actually created a smocking sampler for that page. What an undertaking! Stitching the thing wasn't half as much work as marking it and stabilizing the pleats. For the crochet piece, what I did was almost the standard solid shell stitch. It was too lumpy at 5dc so I worked it in 4dc. And only skipped 1dc between them. I worked the half-stagger and everything else you wrote looks right. Your help with schematics would be so wonderful. The whole crochet area was hamstrung without it. Cheers! Durova^Charge! 23:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply to MartinPhi

Hi Durova, your reply to MartinPhi on the AC RfC page should probably go on talk, not underneath their view. R. Baley (talk) 18:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I had already posted a similar elaboration on talk before he directly challenged me in his opinion, which gives passersby a misleading impression. If he alters his statement accordingly I'll be glad to remove my reply. Durova^Charge! 01:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Query of Concern regarding the private forwarding of emails when an ArbCom is involved

Durova... On several pages, I have seemed to detect a plan for Z to forward you a quantity of private emails of mine to her (or to others) through-out a period of time --- which may or may not prelim any knowledge I had of her posting here at WP. I would like you to please clarify what it is that is expected to be delivered to you and what it will seek to prove. Do realize that emails taken out of context over nearly 10 years can present a distorted perspective, drawing only upon those that would support certain contentions.

Durova, if this is what is to be considered,I request a chance to forward private emails from her to several of my addresses, JUST since the time when I had publicly established, after her mentorship began, of full and consistent support and defense of her on WP... and, also found on WP, will be a consistent pattern of my withdrawing from each and every conflict that ever threatened to develop.

Durova, since this is something that is obviously going on off-Wiki, yet is being used by you to judge me, I think it important for this to be addressed publicly on the appropriate ArbCom topic and discussion pages of the evidence and workpage topics.

Thank you for your openness and clarification of what is going on so that all can understand what your judgments are being drawn upon. A_Kiwi, TRCourage Spotted Owl (talk) 03:20, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Could you link me to these assertions? I have made no offer to review any private correspondence between Z and anybody else. Your post comes as a complete surprise to me; I know nothing about such a thing. And I promise, if any e-mail of yours gets forwarded to my inbox by a third party, I will delete it without reading it as soon as I recognize it comes from you. Of course you may e-mail me directly if you wish. But please, don't forward me anything. I don't want to play monkey in the middle. Durova^Charge! 04:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I had been puzzled by a question left on a talk page, asking for an AOL addy available only via a search by an admin (apparently was deleted). The question asked the party in question to send you a link to the relevant topic page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Zeraeph#AOL_E-mail_address

And while I did not start searching for "AOL email", I later found on one of the ArbCom pages where a discussion was how I had once posted my private email address on a talk page (later deleted from history), and she suggested the article she thought it occurred in and she asked if you could track down the deleted post for her as she was ill.

The comment that struck me was that if the email address matched the letters Z had, you would readily accept them as they might be of importance.

These are, of course, scanty bits of scattered bits of conversation, but when one says that once wishes to receive emails, as long as they are sure they come from a particular person who has self revealed her online address, it puzzles me.

Don't worry. I did write Jeff of my concerns of course.

If the two identical TRCourage email searches in deleted material are not related, I am sure it will soon be seen as completely innocent.

Spotted Owl (talk) 04:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm watching my favorite TV show and uninterested in the swapping of out of context "interpreted for you" emails, but what was actually said was not that you wished to receive them, but that ArbCom would find them of considerable usefulness. Whatever. Fact and fiction are interesting things, are they not? Spotted Owl (talk) 05:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see how the misunderstanding started. I wasn't suggesting Z send me anything; I was suggesting she ask an administrator to match an e-mail address from her own files against her recollection of a deleted post. If the addresses matched then she might forward those e-mails directly to ArbCom with the belief that they came from you. I've never seen the e-mails in question; are you confirming that you sent them? Durova^Charge! 05:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Durova, I apologize for not checking for a response, being busy going thru my own caches of emails. Yes, of COURSE, Durova. I fully admit that I, A_Kiwi, am the SAME PERSON as alleged stalker aka TR Courage, aka Cricket Courage, aka Cricket's Courage. When Z threatened on Wiki last year to reveal the association between my two screen names, I went public at that time. Spotted Owl (talk) 04:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Needed to add, Durova... The reason I did not reveal who -I- was prior to the blackmail attempt was that I knew she wanted her real identity to remain unknown, private, so I fully respected that and anyone can see that I have a continuous history of avoiding edit warring and if anything, once or twice tried to help her see that discussing things on the talk page, using it to teach rather than humiliate and demoralize new editors would be helpful and useful. However when she was writing me frequent sweet friendly emails during the Asperger/SG riot, I heard from wiki friends that she was working against my reputation on two fronts on WP, one of these being that she was going to get me banned for having two accounts by publicly linking the two. When faced with blackmail, the only recourse you have is to remove the secret. Unfortunately, her exposing me instantly exposed her, for tens of thousands of people on the web have witnessed her behaviors through the past 11 years on the internet, for my names and her identity are paired in web history via thousands of her posts on scores of forums, lists and discussion boards, depicting me (along with the occasional others) as one kind of person or another, being dangerous for one reason or another - the reasons changed as months and years passed. Why she wanted to lose her privacy on Wiki was beyond me, but she had made her choice and thus had left me no choice. Spotted Owl (talk) 07:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

BB

That's a really nice tribute to the lady - good stuff! Hope you had a good Christmas. John Smith's (talk) 10:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, same to you! I've been reviving the textile arts project. Have something in the works right now that I'll be uploading soon. :) Best regards, Durova^Charge! 10:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Cuerden

I think I got a bit more of what you were saying. I responded there. ——Martin^phi ☎ Ψ Φ—— 21:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll go catch up with you. I've been expanding an article for DYK and the biggest part of the work has been offline. Sometimes there's no adequate image on either Wikipedia or Commons and I make my own. For this one I actually created and labeled a sampler of ten different embroidery stitches. If that sounds like a lot of work, it is. So I'll head over and help clean things up at the RFC in a sec. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 21:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Non-administrator_rollback

User:Durova we would like your input with regards to the creating of consesus of Wikipedia:Non-administrator_rollback. To me the way it is being presented now looks like a violation of WP:NPOV and Wikipedia:Polling_is_not_a_substitute_for_discussion. The way it is now it is now it is a candidate for WP:CSD. Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 23:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for soliciting my opinion. I'm in a hurry but I'll run over there right away. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 23:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I am being told by creater of the article to Wikipedia:IAR User_talk:Equazcion#Wikipedia:Non-administrator_rollback. Can sure use some advise. Thanx, Igor Berger (talk) 00:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Posted. Now I have to run and get ready for a party. Have a great weekend! Durova^Charge! 00:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Enjoy, we all need a break here! Igor Berger (talk) 00:50, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Matt_Sanchez

I'm passing this case over to ArbCom. I know you had a go at trying to sort things with the Matt Sanchez article, so you might want to comment on whether they should accept or reject the case. WjBscribe 04:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Curiousity

Hi, I noticed that you recommended WikiMedia projects as a less intense atmosphere than this one. Would you explain what those might be? Or where they are? I know about Wiki Commons, the news and books projects. Are there others? Regards, Mattisse 21:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity, Wikisource, Wikitionary, other language editions of Wikipedia, etc. WMF actually runs several hundred sites. Just about anyone who's fluent enough to contribute here could head over to the Simple English Wikipedia. I've done a little work for them and they were very welcoming. Durova^Charge! 22:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! Mattisse 17:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Seth Finkelstein

I understand what you are doing, but I think that borderline notability articles should be deleted regardless of the subject's opinion on the matter. It is incumbent upon the proposer and supporter of the article to demonstrate notability; failure to do so ends the story and requires deletion. BLP or not. We are encyclopedia not people magazine or the gossip column of their favorite rag; once people who submit articles here understand it by having borderline or unsourced crap articles deleted as fast as they are submitted we will be a better encyclopedia. Does any other encyclopedia take the position that its articles' subjects can dictate whether they should get an article or not or what its contents should be? No. To do so makes a mockery of the NPOV guidelines under which we purport to operation. Because if someone, the subject's, POV is given preferential treatment then we'll only have articles on people who want them and they'll only say what those people want them to. When Ollie North calls up WP and says, he loves having an article but all that messy Iran-Contra stuff is a problem - just remove it; or OJ Simpson doesn't want the unpleseantness of his various court cases mentioned in his bio - after all there is enough football stuff to merit inclusion here, just drop the contraversial stuff... etc. You get the point. The best way to handle this in an NPOV manner is to raise the bar to bios here at WP so that everyone meets the definition of "public figure" per US libel law (that's where WP is headquartered). As public figures deserve little to no privacy and have limited rights to pursue libel claims we should seriously cut back these no-names who manage to get to get articles here - mostly self-seving ones and welcomed, but this class of low notability people are really the problem. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I respect that opinion. Borderline notability is an ambiguous term and I'm not particularly comfortable with it because there's no clearly defined boundary. I'm willing to keep the biographies on the lower end of the notability scale unless the subject actively requests deletion. Then, up to the point where the person is famous enough to appear in some paper-and-ink specialty encyclopedia, I'd honor that person's request.

Your concern about censorship resonates with me and I worked very hard to find a principle that doesn't open that door. Oliver North and O.J. Simpson are too famous for deletion; their absence would affect the encyclopedia's completeness. They certainly don't get a line item veto on properly documented information. Courtesy deletion is all-or-nothing: either the article stays online or it doesn't. You might like to glance at the Matt Sanchez biography and its talk page. The dispute is in RFAR now. Durova^Charge! 22:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Help with image

I hope you dont mind that I approach you, but I see that you are active working with photos on WP, and I am totally clueless on that subject. I have a small problem: I use this beautiful picture in the Bayt Jibrin article, as the dress on the left, and the black/red shawl on the wall in the background are from Bayt Jibrin. However, the dress on the right is from BerSheba. Is it possible to "cut away" the Bersheba dress for this article? The picture is also used in the Palestinian costumes, and there we ofcourse would like to keep the whole picture. Is this possible? Regards, Huldra (talk) 23:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

How's this? Durova^Charge! 01:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Wonderful! I have already put it into the Bayt Jibrin article; it looks sooo much better! Thanks again, it was very kind of you! Regards, Huldra (talk) 02:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Really, this was a very simple edit. I'm glad it helps. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 02:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

ah, a small step for you, a giant leap for me! ;-) Huldra (talk) 05:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW I've added a category and put the Textile Arts project template onto the talk page. Looks quite good; are you shooting for GA? Durova^Charge! 02:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have zero experience with the GA process..I just started the "costumes" articles because I really love some of those costumes..and there are quite a few books about the subject. (And it is very nice to work on a Palestinian subject without having to be edit-warring all the time!) Then Tiamut came along and expanded it...some added the fine pictures..and now we have been paid a great compliment; we have been plagiarised! See here :-) Do you think there is a lot needed for it to get to GA status? I have just got hold of Weir´s: "Palestinian Costume" book (one of the "Bibles" on the topic), so I thought I would be doing some updating in any case.

Btw; are you familiar with the Matson collection? I understand we can use them here on WP? There are lots and lots of interesting pictures there, I just have no clue about how to upload them. (I *am* clueless..) E.g. the Judah Magnes article has no picture, but search for: Magnes Hebrew....and you get two very, very nice pictures, which would have been great in the article. Likewise; if you search for: Jibrin...you get lots of pictures ..partly of daily life in Bayt Jibrin, partly of mosaics and other antiquties, now in Istanbul(!). I would love to have those in, say a gallery in the article. Regards, Huldra (talk) 05:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm no expert on Palestinian costumes and I very much doubt there's much to be found at my local libraries. Maybe I'll get lucky there, but for now I can only promise to help with images and copyediting and general advice. When I clicked on your link for the Matson collection all I got was a Library of Congress search form. Which keywords get me to the collection you mentioned? Durova^Charge! 19:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks as if the Matson collection is part of the Library of Congress. In other words, if you go to the library of Congress search form (address given above), put in the keywords Magnes Hebrew you will get two pictures, both in the Matson collection, both without copy-rights (??????) and both perfect for the Judah Magnes article.

I have put the "search term" or keywords in bold, and then follows the article(s) where the pictures should go:

Magnes Hebrew to the Judah Magnes article

Jibrin olives a couple here would be fine for the Bayt Jibrin article

Jibrin gunpowder ...also for Bayt Jibrin article

Jibrin pictures depicting the mosaics and other antiquties, (as I said: now in Istanbul(!)) ..would be great in Eleutheropolis

Nebi Rubin ..one of the pictures of the camp should go into Tawfiq Canaan (he wrote about it), some should go into a new article. One of the historically most important pilgrimages in Palestine.

Hebrew university library Palestine one or more of those wonderful old pictures should really go under the "library" section in Hebrew University of Jerusalem

Ramleh ...into Ramleh

Lifta ..into Lifta

Well, I think that´s it for now, could you please also check under "Citations" on the talk-page of the Palestinan Costumes? Thanks. Huldra (talk) 22:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• Hmmm, to me it seems that only the images published before 1923 are in the public domain, the images are not originally created by the US government... So only the images from Ramleh are in the public domain... Which ones would you like uploaded, Ramleh? Funkynusayri (talk) 16:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Hi, is it really only the images made before 1923 that are in the public domain? I thought that when it said : "RIGHTS INFORMATION: No known restrictions on publication." .............well, then we could use it? I especially had hoped we could use some of the Nebi Rubin pictures. Sigh. Anyway, of the Ramleh pictures I find the one by Félix Bonfils most facinating, especially since it is so old (pre-1885), but perhaps we could crop a bit of the bottom of the picture? Actually, a lot of the Bonfils pictures should be uploaded to Wikipedia, if posssible: they are really nice. (And I hope Durova don´t mind that we fill up her talk-page ;-P) Regards, Huldra (talk) 05:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
    • It's a little more complicated than that. Prior to 1923, nearly everything is public domain in the United States. Afterward things get messy. What I suggest you do with "no known restrictions" items you really like is to submit a copyright query to the LoC website. You'll get an answer in about half a week. If it's public domain in the States, you can upload to Wikipedia. In order to upload to Commons you'd have to confirm that it's also public domain in the country of origin. If that sounds confusing, just use the query form at LoC and get back to me when they give you an answer. Durova^Charge! 11:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Mind if I archive this? Durova^Charge! 04:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

• Sure, go ahead. It has been very helpful, thanks! Regards, Huldra (talk) 06:39, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Roughe Criminal Admin sysopsoc 65.188.38.31

User:Durova please take a look at this. User_talk:Igorberger#Roughe_Criminal_Admin sysopsoc User:65.188.38.31. I am going out for a bit. All this security investigation forensics tired me out a bit. Maybe go have a beer or someting to relax. If you need anything let me know. Regards, Igor Berger (talk) 16:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Cwiki

I'm a little disturbed by the way you're presenting the Cwiki unblock situation, especially at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Matthew Hoffman/Evidence. You fail to mention that Cwiki was blocked on the basis of evidence provided by yourself, a fact unknown by me at the time I reviewed the unblock request. Whilst I am disappointed with the way I handled it myself, I did withdraw my review since it became clear that I was in over my head. I'm not entirely sure how I was supposed to know I was supposed to contact you, which is a fundamental point in your evidencve. I reviewed the block based on Guy's request at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive176#Unblock request. There is no mention of you made in that request. I too am disappointed in the way the Cwiki block was handled, but I'm also disappointed in the way it is being presented. I withdrew my review. Hiding T 16:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It was unknown to me also; I hadn't been informed of every block that had been made, nor was I notified of the unblock requests. If I'd gotten a heads up we could have resolved things much sooner. When the editor evaded his block to appeal to me on an IP a month later, I was really stunned to see that things had dragged out so far without anyone consulting the principal investigator. But I don't mean to be unfair; if you can suggest a way to amend that statement and make it better I'll be glad to update it. Durova^Charge! 19:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused. I really don't understand the process at all here. My understanding is that Cwiki was blocked on your say so. Is that correct or not? If that's correct, why were you not aware that Cwiki was blocked? My point is that yes, I made a mistake, but my mistake was based on the error of others. Guy should have come to you, and you should have been aware of what was happening to the information you were passing on. No? I just don't like seeing my name on an arbitration case I have nothing to do with and within a summary I do not agree with and which does not reflect the chain of events properly. If your intention is to show that admins make mistakes, then I think you have used the wrong piece of evidence, or used the evidence in the wrong way. That evidence to me demonstrates what happens when admins are misinformed. I was severely misinformed. Hiding T 14:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure multiple people were checking the histories and I know there was some confusion about the borderline cases see here. The Joan of Arc vandal changed tactics enough times that he was very hard to track (19 registered socks plus tons of AOL IP shenanigans). I really wished I had been brought into the loop on that particular block appeal. Good faith miscommunication and unlikely to boomerang on anybody after this much time, but worth pointing out as an illustration of how standards were shifting in an IMHO untenable direction at the time the case opened. If there's a particular amendment you'd like me to make to my statement, please advise. Durova^Charge! 11:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

nah, never mind. I'm being overly sensitive. I've said my piece. I still don't get why Guy's post at WP:AN makes no mention of all of this, but I guess it's an IRC cabal thing. There's not much harm done, it just feels a little off to me. I can't think of a way of amending your statement which doesn't open a whole can of worms for someone if arb-com want to, so let it be. Hiding T 21:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You have mail

Please check your email. Thank you. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 17:02, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Re. FPC

Another picture of the ballroom.

Hello Durova and thank you for contacting me. Hmm, I'm not so sure about a picture taken on an overcast day, it would likely fail to provide enough light and the picture would be too dark (I took pictures of other rooms in the palace that were not being hit by direct sunlight that day, and they didn't turn out that well). Anyway, I may try your suggestion some other time (not sure when though coz I'll be moving to another country soon and won't be returning to Portugal for quite a few months). Thank you for your feedback. Best regards, Húsönd 17:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

These are very difficult shots to nail. In order to avoid blowing out the windows completely, this photographer underexposed the ceiling. Darn palaces...

Tough call. I'd aim the camera away from those outdoor windows. The problem I anticipate is that there are probably mirrors on those opposite walls, which will still cause smaller blown whites unless you're careful about choosing your lighting conditions. You might get the right effect on a day with light cirrus or altocumulus cloud cover, or perhaps at a time of day when the sunlight doesn't strike that room quite so directly. Durova^Charge! 19:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 7 January, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article smocking, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri (talk) 21:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Durova^Charge! 21:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Bluemarine

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Bluemarine/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Bluemarine/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, John Vandenberg (talk) 22:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

another DYK!

I saw your hook on DYK, an area where I help out often. It's good to see your name again! Someday, I might ask for your advice on policy, blocking, or investigation. Happy New Year! Archtransit (talk) 22:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thank you. Yes for about the last month I've beeen writing DYKs to raise the profile of the textile arts project. Been getting very good feedback from the DYK folks: I can almost always provide an image that isn't a human head or a building. ;) Cheers, Durova^Charge! 22:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: Shell stitch

The length of prose on my check was 1559 characters, which is just enough for DYK. An expansion would be nice in case anyone calls you on it, but it does pass the requirement. Wizardman 22:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'll see if I can add a little more in the next few days. Another project member may be creating a schematic diagram. Durova^Charge! 23:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter — Issue XXII (December 2007)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter Issue XXII (December 2007)
Project news The Intelligence task force has been created. The contest department has completed its ninth month of competition. The top scorer this month is Blnguyen, with 22 points, followed by Dreamafter, with 8 points, and Redmarkviolinist, with 6 points. Blnguyen also remains the overall leader, with 162 points in total. All project members are encouraged to submit the articles they're working on as entries. Help with converting deprecated infoboxes is needed; any assistance is welcome! {{WPMILHIST}} now supports an explicit tag (class=DAB) for marking disambiguation pages.	Articles of note New featured articles: Battle of Albuera Battle of Dyrrhachium (1081) Battle of the Gebora Constantine II of Scotland Francis Harvey Vasa (ship) Wulfhere of Mercia New A-Class articles: 1962 South Vietnamese Presidential Palace bombing Evacuation of East Prussia
Current proposals and discussions A discussion about minimizing terminological ambiguity has begun.
Awards and honors Blnguyen has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his efforts in improving the quality of articles related to Vietnamese military history, including the creation of numerous A-Class articles. Woodym555 has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his outstanding work on topics related to the Victoria Cross, notably including the creation of featured articles, featured lists, and a featured topic. For their outstanding efforts as part of Tag & Assess 2007, Bedford, TomStar81, and Parsival74 have been awarded the gold, silver, and bronze Wikis, respectively.
Tag & Assess 2007 Tag & Assess 2007 is now officially over, with slightly under 68,000 articles processed. The top twenty scores are as follows: 1. Bedford — 7,600 2. TomStar81 — 5,500 3. Parsival74 — 5,200 4. FayssalF — 3,500 5. Roger Davies — 3,000 6. Ouro — 2600 7. Kateshortforbob — 2250 8. Cromdog — 2,200 9. BrokenSphere — 2000 9. Jacksinterweb — 2,000 9. Maralia — 2,000 12. MBK004 — 1,340 13. JKBrooks85 — 1,250 14. Sniperz11 — 1100 15. Burzmali — 1000 15. Cplakidas — 1000 15. Gimme danger — 1000 15. Raoulduke471000 15. TicketMan — 1000 15. Welsh — 1000 15. Blnguyen — 1000 Although the drive is officially closed, existing participants can continue tagging until January 31 if they wish, with the extra tags counting towards their tally for barnstar purposes. We'd like to see what lessons can be learned from this drive, so we've set up a feedback workshop. Comments and feedback from participants and non-participants alike are very welcome and appreciated.
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

Note: This newsletter was automatically delivered. Regards from the automated, Anibot (talk) 23:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Triple Crown-related question

I still await the day that I earn one of these. But I have a question that I want to ask you that I've wanted to for some time now. In order to qualify for a Triple Crown, do the DYK, GA, and FC articles all have to have something in common? Do they all have to be about a similar topic? Ksy92003(talk) 23:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The articles could be on any topic. If you'd like to get there on a team effort, you're welcome to join me on a couple of undertakings. At User:Durova/Landmark images I've got a workshop to raise historic photographs to FPs. I've also been busy with Wikipedia:WikiProject Textile Arts. So far I've expanded Navajo rug from a three paragraph stub to B-class and am aiming for GA. Plus I've sounded out the military history project about a joint effort to raise Bayeux Tapestry to FA. More hands are welcome. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 00:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Saying hi

Hi Durova. Though we have interacted a tiny bit in the last year (I note that you gave me a 3 hour time out last March when I was having a bad day, and we worked together a bit on spam link deletion in November), I've never really stopped to say much to you. I just wanted to let you know how impressed I've been with your contribution to the Zeraeph arbitration, and how much I appreciated it. you have been very calming and the points you've made were quite apt. It really helped a lot.

If I can ever do anything to assist you in the future, please do not hesitate to call on me. I know how important this project is to you, and I feel the same way. Take care, Jeffpw (talk) 00:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. You can see from my contribution history where I've been active. If any of that interests you then feel free to join in. :) Best regards, Durova^Charge! 00:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Image:Agarplate redbloodcells.jpg

Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Agarplate redbloodcells edit.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. MER-C 02:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Durova^Charge! 02:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for the triple crown award. Its nice to know that work here is apreciated. TomStar81 (Talk) 04:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Very much appreciated. Keep up the good work! Durova^Charge! 04:07, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this a new thing?

I read that you are

a past victim of harassment and attacks, and is also very keen on preventing abuse of the project. She knows (as most of us do) some of the signs of the returning user . . . Durova enjoys the whole business of tracking down such accounts. She calls it "sleuthing".

How would you track down a returning user who is unregistered and uses constantly changing WiFi connections to make his edits impossible to track down?Eschoir (talk) 04:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, where does that blockquote come from? And how does that relate to the specific problem you're trying to solve? Less vague analogy and more facts would be helpful. Durova^Charge! 04:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

WikiSphere and WikiMood

User:Durova, I do not know if you remember the Mood Ring, but it would be great if the WikiSphere would reflect the mood of our community. The colour would change from one spectrum of the gama to another and would return to neutrality for WP:NPOV! Igor Berger (talk) 05:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, redlinks? Durova^Charge! 05:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Red blood, red cells! Blue republic, white peace! Red, white, and blue, for which we stand, under God, we the people of WikiPedia preserve naturality. Igor Berger (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Igor, I'm not really sure I follow you. Durova^Charge! 18:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Will expalin a bit later. Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 18:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Hoooo

Malware Plasmid genetic engineering. Igor Berger (talk) 08:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC}
his move research bioengineering Igor Berger (talk) 23:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, can you fill me in on the background to this? Durova^Charge! 03:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Clarification on The great triple crown race of 2008

Can you clarify the rules for "The great triple crown race of 2008". Do the GA & FA have to be nominated after 1st Jan as the rules say "Do qualifying editing work between 1 January and 14 February"? What about articles nominated before 1st Jan which then took (a lot) of editing to achieve promotion (eg Bath, Somerset & hopefully Somerset which were both nominated in Dec 07). If not I will have to wait & see what happens to Exmoor and Grand Western Canal which were both nominated on 1st Jan.— Rod ^talk 10:55, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Show me specific diffs of "a lot" of editing during 2008. Normally that means 10 or more citations. Durova^Charge! 11:35, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Doing diffs for all the edits would take ages - can you look at the history of Bath, Somerset since 1st Jan as an example - it made GA last night. Examples (picking out the citations) since 1st Jan include: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] but there have been loads of others not specifically adding citations.

Somerset hasn't made FA (?yet) but Lilstock is currently in the DYK section on the main page.— Rod ^talk 11:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you can find a simpler way to verify the work I'd accept that. Such as, if you were primary editor then a single combined diff would do. Does that sound fair? Durova^Charge! 18:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

User:DeadlyAssassin name change recommended

This sockpuppet is turning into a meatpuppet which will grow up to be a popuppetier! Looks like the indentity is being engineered unaturally! I could be wrong by the editing profile does not corespond logically. Just heads up, but I do recommend a name change for the user, same like other editor has done! With a name like User:DeadlyAssassin could become a very big problem if and when involved in an editor war! Igor Berger (talk) 01:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The are no Ninja Turtles at WikiPedia..:)

Um, is this your sense of humor? Durova^Charge! 05:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Sort of tongue and chick! But you never know what is hiding under the mattress and in the closet. There is a lot to learn from video games and cartoon carachters! The subculture is very alert and children are very bright! You may want to look at this Igor Berger (talk) 07:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Kill the wabbit. Durova^Charge! 09:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Before the Fud? Igor Berger (talk) 23:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

RfArb comment by G-dett

I think you mis-read his comment, what he said was that ideally, there woould be established BY the ArbCom a group (he calls it, humorously, i think is the intent) a mini-cabal, and he suggested that because of traits you posess which he admires, you should be a part of said 'cabal', which would then monitor the relevant articles and behaviors. It's like saying, I think Durova OUGHT to be the referee for our game of kick the article. He was most definitely NOT taking a swipe at you. ThuranX (talk) 01:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ThuranX. Durova, I just became aware of the misunderstanding through a note from HG, and have posted a clarification.--G-Dett (talk) 01:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. You mean as in a mediation cabal? I doubt I know the underlying dispute in sufficient depth to be particularly useful. My role is limited to wiki policies and generally reducing the heat on a pretty hot dispute. I'll go ahead and strikethrough my response since I misunderstood the intent. Durova^Charge! 05:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Glad y'all patched things up. I read G-Dett's comment as straight forward at first, but second guessed when I saw your reply. She is known to be clever like that but always in good fun, and I know you've had quite the cabal experience lately -- too soon? Anyway, I hope we can avoid arbitration here. Jaak is pushy, if not tendentious, but I rather imagine certain other editors would metaphorically throw him under a bus if it meant an opportunity to, once again, poor over every nick and cranny of User:PalestineRemembered's edit history and try and take him off the project too, fairly or not. As PR's supposed mentor -- though Ryan I guess more or less muscled himself in to the job too -- I'm rather concerned at that prospect. We could certainly have an interesting play date though! -- Kendrick7^talk 07:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Have you seen the roast I played upon myself? User:Durova/Sockpuppets Durova^Charge! 08:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Lol, those are creative! Maybe you could auction them off to the highest bid donation to the Foundation? (Well, maybe we should scrounge around for other donated items...) Take care, HG | Talk 10:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Hm, I could actually make more sockpuppets if I really needed to. And then sell them on eBay? Dear heavens, the implications... Durova^Charge! 10:53, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I was thinking more like an internal Wikipedia charity auction. (Though I see that eBay is set up to host charity auctions.) Maybe Mr. Wales would donate a pair of autographed socks... Troll dolls with the WP logo... Could be fun. HG | Talk 12:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Jaakobou mentorship

Hello Durova. I see you've taken on the mentorship of User:Jaakobou.

It's not very clear why you've taken this on now, somehow I'd have expected the time to arrange mentoring was after the proposed arbitration where he is a prime involved party, not before. Are you in favour of the community pressing on and detailing any alleged issues you might feel they've spotted in his participation?

I'd like to mention that mentors (and other "semi-impartial mediators") in similar cases have sometimes/often suffered harassment and time-wasting demands to explain themselves, with the apparent intention to drive them off (and I've repeatedly seen it succeed!). I can assure you this is not my purpose in speaking to you now (or ever). PR^talk 11:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Really my role is simple: to be a sounding board and a stabilizing influence on matters of conduct and site policy. And as much as is possible, to help turn down the heat on hot discussions and find areas of agreement and cooperation. Mentorship is a good thing for anyone who's part of a tough dispute and wants a little help being their best self. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 11:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm still not very sure about the parameters - for instance, I have three questions for Jaakobou which bear on the progress of the RfA we're increasingly expecting - do you think it is right and proper that I ask them now and that he respond?

I would like to avoid a position where these apparently puzzling discrepancies might appear in the Arbitration later and look very much like accusations. It would undoubtedly poison the atmosphere if it turns out that they're all silly misunderstandings. I think it's important that I not be seen to "harass him" by, for instance, going to his TalkPage and demanding answers, because I know he doesn't like that and, no matter how significant the question, will possibly refuse to answer and could even get quite upset.

Please note that Jaakobou himself considers it perfectly proper to approach other people's mentors, as here. (Actually, he considers it perfectly proper to make quite direct and personal accusations against them, but I can assure you that that is totally against my nature!).

I feel confident that many other people will want to know the answers to these questions, especially to the first one:

• Question 1 to Jaakobou: Have you ever operated any other Wikipedia (English version) editing-accounts, and, if so, have they been operated in ways that would attract censure?
• Question 2 to Jaakobou: In your statement at the RfA, you say "I also believe there is a serious need for formal mediation on Second Intifada and Israeli-Palestinian conflict". Now I (PR) have seen it suggested that you never agree to compromises. Please provide examples where you've compromised constructively. (I simply don't know the answer to this question, though I think I once noticed you refusing to join mediation at a favorite article of yours, the Battle of Jenin).
• Question 3 to Jaakobou: There was an RfC on the reliable source status of CAMERA. Eventually (after a great deal of uncalled for participation by involved editors, into which I allowed myself to be sucked in, sorry), I summarised the conclusions as being two to none against CAMERA (or likely three to one, if we included someone who'd been only slightly involved, offering to mediate). You don't appear to have exactly rejected that conclusion (I cannot understand what you're trying to say here), but just one day later, you were encouraging other people to ignore the conclusion, eg here. I'm sure you'll understand that this could look very much like both tendentious editing (concealing the reasonably clear nature of the result at the RfC) and disruptive editing, encouraging disrespect for WP:Policy. Would you care to explain yourself? PR^talk 15:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Next time I catch him online I'll ask him to look at your questions. Durova^Charge! 19:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou. Mentorship is not supposed to be a trial, least of all for the mentor. PR^talk 21:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you feel that these are questions I'm not entitled to have answers to? I should point out that (some?) of my mentors were subject to a barrage of demands, right up to seeing problems where there appeared to be none - if you feel I'm off track wanting some of these answers, please tell me. PR^talk 09:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's really up to Jaakobou to decide how to respond. My own suggestion is posted to RFAR talk: namely, I'd like to reduce tension by finding uncontroversial areas to collaborate. I'm willing to Photoshop images of Israeli or Palestinian culture and give a little bit of help improving Palestinian costumes. A 103-year-old image I worked on is at FPC right now. I doubt I can solve all of Wikipedia's disputes in this area (let alone the world's), but maybe I can help turn down the heat a little. Does that sound good to you? Durova^Charge! 10:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I find your response worrying (in fact, knowing one of your specialities, very worrying indeed). However, it was not my intention to "troll" you personally with behavior that might be worrying. Please accept my apology. PR^talk 09:49, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Why would my response worry you? I explained the scope of this mentorship and have been doing what I said I would do. At any rate, thank you for changing your evidence. Maybe we can work together on something. Over at Talk:Palestinian costumes I've posted an invitation for examples of Palestinian embroidery. If we get enough material I'll start an image category on Commons for it. In particular I'm looking for close-ups. The current article text discusses styles of work and motifs, but not much about actual stitches. I could identify some of that if we get some good images to work from. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 20:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

rollback

has been turned on for you, now live for non-admins WP:ROLL. Cheers, NoSeptember 19:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm uncomfortable about this: it's a controversial op, I haven't requested it, nobody asked me whether I wanted it toggled, and I don't really need it. What I do really need is to avoid any appearance of back door dealings and insider back scratching because people construe the weirdest things when they see my name. I appreciate the gesture because I suppose it's kindly meant, but please turn it off. Durova^Charge! 21:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. If you ever want it back, you know where to go. :) Acalamari 21:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

No problem, For the benefit of anyone interested, I have been looking at all users with previous rollback privileges enabled, and there is no back channel contact involved here, as Durova has indicated. Cheers, NoSeptember 21:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Durova^Charge! 22:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 22:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to admit PR has a bit of a paranoid bent, and the topic area he edits in doesn't exactly promote a person's sanity. I expect and hope that he'll calm down a little. -- Kendrick7^talk 05:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:FPC

Hi Durova,
Yeah I understand that and congratulate you on the work you're doing (great job!) but I think there needs to be a limit to the weight we place on historic images. I think, especially after looking through those gettyimages books, that we over estimate the limitations on photography 50, 60, 80 or even a hundred years ago. Especially since the photos we're getting are from trained professionals who are often using what was top of the line equipment in that day. Sure we can give a little leniency, but unless the photo was taken in exceptional historic circumstances where the photo captures a spontaneous and unrepeatable moment (circumstances which would allow similar allowances in modern photographs) I think we can demand composition, lighting and subject matter from historic photos.

As an example, I think Image:American military personnel gather in Paris to celebrate the Japanese surrender.jpg is great as in certainly captures a near unrepeatable moment, Image:Douglas Fairbanks at third Liberty Loan rally HD-SN-99-02174.JPEG would be just as spectacular taken today, whereas Image:Goyathlay.jpeg with it's forced backdrop is not so great. Would it fare much different to Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Luiz Inácio da Silva if it was a modern photo? I don't know. The first two examples also show that quality was attainable even in those days.

So I respect your work and hope you'll gone on with it, but I certainly feel that the "historical" line is overused as a reason for featuring. As you seem quite interested in history, I thought I might link to a few of my favourites from getty images 1920s: [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]

Regards, --Fir0002 07:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Beautiful. If only they weren't copyrighted... Durova^Charge! 08:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I need a vacation..:)

I think my security work is coming to an end. Cleaned up a lot of stuff and taught the community about Black Hat SEO and how to deal with it. I will be going skiing to Austria next monht! Maybe will meet some Trolls on the slops..:)

Will try to contribute to WikiPedia how I can but do not know if I want to get political. Regards, Igor Berger (talk) 08:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I even made it on the front page of WikiPropaganda news paper.
WikiPedia Famous Troll Wish I had more time to play..:) Igor Berger (talk) 08:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't take it personally. Enjoy your break. :) Durova^Charge! 08:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I never take it personaly. I have too much history for that! I even find it entertaining..:) Igor Berger (talk) 09:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Releasing IP addresses of registered users: the Video Professor incident

You commented on this issue at User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 31#Wikipedia surrendering users' info without a fight. It was stated there that it was not an appropriate discussion forum for the topic of how hard the Foundation should and did fight to prevent revealing the IP addresses of registered users to parties who had been criticized in a Wikipedia article and who subpoenaed the user information. I have started a discussion at the Village Pump policy page at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)# Releasing IP addresses of registered users: the Video Professor incident. Your comments are welcome. Thanks.Edison (talk) 15:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. Durova^Charge! 21:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Podcast

I looked at that link you posted, but did not listen to any audio that may have been associated with that blog. I'm wondering how it is evidence in the Matthew Hoffman case, but I'm not sure if you think it is very much worth listening to first. —Whig (talk) 05:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Listen to the audio. Durova^Charge! 05:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if I shouldn't have edited to make it clear that this was part of your evidence. I started to listen to it but it seemed to be a right wing talk show of some kind, I do not know if "Right March" or Bill Greene are notable however. —Whig (talk) 05:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

That's all right. You've seen the rest of my evidence? The Discovery Institute is notable, I'd wager. Durova^Charge! 05:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but perhaps not in depth. I have not gotten involved in the intelligent design issues, but I'm also not really understanding the point of bringing up non-notable podcasters' opinions. I understand we are all contending with partisans of all kinds in our lives, and I have my own blog for dealing with that kind of thing, but that's not how I see Wikipedia. I see this as being the place where we put aside our differences and work together to make an encyclopedia. My opinions have nothing to do with Matthew Hoffman of course but with the blocking of users based apparently on their POV. I expect to be added to the ArbCom case based on the RfC, if the ArbCom won't object. —Whig (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

My evidence sets this forth in greater breadth and depth. Yes, I agree we should put our differences aside and work together. That's not how some people view this site. Whether I agree with a POV or disagree with it, when I see a campaign to skew Wikipedia content to favor any given ideology I oppose that drive. Durova^Charge! 05:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, well I think you may have concealed biases of your own. I believe you are in absolutely good faith Durova and I have not had much opportunity to converse with you before, but I have read much of what you've said in various cases. I simply think you've decided that there is such a thing as an objective POV. I don't think that's what NPOV means. —Whig (talk) 05:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I request you withdraw that insinuation. At Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Agapetos angel, for instance, I was the sole supporter of a young earth creationist. My evidence in the Matthew Cuerden case is about a long term partisan effort to recruit meatpuppets and skew site content. Debates about "objective POV" are beside the point when that happens. Durova^Charge! 05:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry for the insinuation. I really do not want to argue with you about Matthew Hoffman at all. I have no interest in the subject of ID/creationism, really. My concern is with abuse of admin powers, and you certainly have not done anything that I intended to complain about. Actually, I respect very much that you stand up for Adam Cuerden. I just happen to have my own experiences with him. —Whig (talk) 05:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I think maybe it's best we discontinue discussion here, since it is a subject of arbitration. I hope to have more opportunity to talk later. I only brought it up here at all after you'd submitted the same link to the Adam Cuerden RfC discussion. —Whig (talk) 05:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the strikethrough, and all right. Durova^Charge! 05:53, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

IP harasser = Pwok???

The IP harassing you about Matt Sanchez, etc. sounds like banned User:Pwok. I don't know if a checkuser can confirm or deny that. Aleta (Sing) 05:52, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Would you put that up on a noticeboard and request semiprotection, please? Durova^Charge! 05:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Where should it go? Point me to the right place, and I'll be glad to do so. Aleta (Sing) 05:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:ANI should do. Thanks again. Durova^Charge! 05:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Done: see WP:ANI#IP abuse at Arbcom workshop. And you're welcome! I don't know if you saw IP's comments at Talk:Matt Sanchez, but it's classic Pwok. Aleta (Sing) 06:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/San Francisco earthquake fire

Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Sfearthquake3b.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. jjron (talk) 09:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Durova, you probably deserve one of these too. --jjron (talk) 09:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Durova^Charge! 09:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 12 January, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Shell stitch, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

---- Anonymous Dissident^Talk 15:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Durova^Charge! 19:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Carpenter (nomination 2)

An image edited by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your edit, Image:PalmercarpenterA.jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! jjron (talk) 08:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Huh? I accidentally forgot to put a title in, so it just dumped it in with the previous comment. So I redid it here as a new comment, and deleted it from Triple crown!!! (how come you didn't see this one; it was in before the other one was out?). BTW, think yourself lucky - MER-C doesn't credit edits at all! ;-) --jjron (talk) 09:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Aw, thanks. :) Durova^Charge! 10:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

New milestone reached

Dear Durova, I now have over 10,000 edits!! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 18:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations! Durova^Charge! 19:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 19:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you help me with Andy Beard

User:Durova I am not really good in creating an article but I am good in finding sources. So after getting an okay from User:Jehochman I created the article and it got CSD right a way. Can you please take a look what I am doing wrong. User:Igorberger/Andy_Beard Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 00:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Jehochman is Wikipedia's resident expert in SEO. I suggest you rely on him for advice. Durova^Charge! 00:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I asked him, but he seems to be busy with some other stuff. Igor Berger (talk) 00:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I've left him a message on your behalf. Since he gave you the green light in the first place it's his responsibility to follow through. You put in a fair amount of effort on his word. Durova^Charge! 01:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Igor Berger (talk) 01:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Durova they are saying I have violated WP:COI Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Andy_Beard Soon they will say I got money from Andy. IMHO! I will be going to sleep soon, so you may want to head there and explain who is Andy Beard. Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 14:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Jehochman is also an expert on COI. I've dropped him a line. Durova^Charge! 18:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. He came over and shed some sense on the discusion. Igor Berger (talk) 23:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Durova User:VirtualSteve deleted Andy Beard before the end of 5 day period, only after 2 days, of WP:AFD. I have notified him on his talk page but he has not replied. Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 02:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes there's an early closure if clear consensus emerges. Durova^Charge! 03:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Did a consensus emerge? Andy Beard provided a lot of information towards notability for WP:BLP I think it was premature to delete, but better to rewrite the article for BLP. I know I can rewrite it, but I wanted other editors to join in the task not have it look like WP:OWNERSHIP. I would like the article be undeleted and see if it can be rewritten. Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 03:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone interested in helping build Andy Beard article can do so here User:Igorberger/Andy_Beard Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 04:01, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

If you have better information, write it up in draft form in user space and open a deletion review request. Durova^Charge! 03:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not that good in writing articles so wanted help of other editors. I do not know if I want to waste my time when it can be more positive for other things. I may do DRV or just write a new version and try to publish again. Thanks, Igor Berger (talk) 03:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I am also very busy with a lot of stuff. And try to help Steve from EmiSteve. He has bicycled the world for 20 years, and his Japanese wife got cancer and had a surgery and now back on a bike. You can watch a video I did with him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNIso-vjl_8 and learn more about them from http://www.bicyclingworldtour.com/ Hey I just like helping people..:) Igor Berger (talk) 03:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Dover, Virginia

You made this edit removing some material from the article on Dover, Virginia. Do you think that it should possibly be oversighted, as it not only identifies the editor and attaches an IP address but also identifies his employer? ^Avruchtalk 03:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Douglas MacArthur lands at Leyte

Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Douglas MacArthur lands Leyte1.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. jjron (talk) 09:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Boy, another one! --jjron (talk) 09:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Durova^Charge! 09:48, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Omaha Race Riot of 1919

Thanks for the note. I was the actually the editor who slapped the citations missing tag on the article. However, I do have several citations from other articles I've written that mentioned this, and I can do a little more work to pull them together for this. You might be interested in Racial tension in Omaha, Nebraska and Civil Rights Movement in Omaha, Nebraska. Keep your eye on Omaha Race Riot of 1919 and I'll work on it soon. Thanks for asking! • Freechild'sup? 11:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

What a gripping article! I've been trying to find an image that I could restore and put up for WP:FPC. As difficult as this subject matter is, it's also very important. What I find particularly chilling about this type of material is how often the murderers pose with smiles on their faces. Ping me when you get to it, because with citations and copyediting I think that ought to be at least GA and probably featured. I'd be glad to help (although I'm nowhere near Omaha). Best regards, Durova^Charge! 11:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Alfred Palmer's tanks

Hi, finally got round to finding the other alternative tank shot I was on about. I still haven't had a chance to download the fullsize version again and I've not done a side-by-side comparison, so whatever you think is fine by me. FWIW I think the one you picked is easily the better composition; the other would need a crop.

Once I get some time (soon, I hope) I intend creating an article for Mr Palmer, which may help future FPC noms of his work. It seems to me that the real value of his large-format kodachrome work – certainly among the very best quality colour photography of WWII – is almost paradoxically difficult to translate into WP encyclopedic value, and hence FPC "plus points". I realise this is true of many historical images, some of which are individually pioneering or even unique in their own right & while this has a significant bearing on selection for cleanup, for FPC there seems to be growing need to major on notability outside of the history of photography itself. I've noticed some mild but growing hostility toward the historical noms which I can sympathise with (also ambivalence to images like the furnace nom, which was widley – rightly? – judged on enc merits alone) although I cringe at accusations of "just because it's old > FPC" etc. I wonder how you feel about all this? I'm of the opinion that emphasising the relative image quality of older photos via more specialised articles might help raise their photographic profile, but I don't want to create a load of unnecessary work. --mikaul^talk 19:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You might be right; that could be crisper. At any rate, the tank's position on the slope adds more tension to the scene: diagonal lines are inherently more exciting than horizontals and verticals. I think the tank may be closer to the camera also. Could you link me to the download? Palmer's color files are often 150-200megs so you might not want to load up your memory with this one. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 19:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Oops, missed your reply.. here you go. --mikaul^talk 22:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Portsmouth Square pic

Hi, I've restored this article and added it to the California gold rush article. Perhaps you'd be able to identify: is that Telegraph Hill in the background? Regards, DurovaCharge! 06:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice job on the restoration - Photoshop? Portsmouth Square still exists in its modern encarnation (that is, in reduced form) in SF's Chinatown. If this image is looking west (my initial guess), then that would be modern Nob Hill/Russian Hill behind it (the two are connected by a saddle). If this image is looking north, then that could be Telegraph Hill in the back (but Telegraph Hill is more pointed). I'll take a look around and let you my further thoughts!

Where did you find this wonderful image, and do you have a source? All the best, NorCalHistory (talk) 21:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Another restoration job that recently got featured on Commons and Wikipedia.

Photoshop CS. Not the latest version, but good enough for the job. I spent a lot of time at high magnification fixing small artifacts 2-5 pixels wide. Painstaking work, and worth it. This comes from the Library of Congress; the call number is listed in the image summary. I've spent three days working on another daguerrotype of San Francisco harbor. It seems to look out at Alcatraz Island (85 years before the prison was built). The harbor image had decomposed a lot worse than the Portsmouth Square image, so I doubt we'll ever get it into quite as good shape, but it's still intriguing to see an acutal photograph instead of an artist's impression. If you have other good sources for public domain images of California history, please give me the heads up. In order to be considered for featured status on Wikipedia they have to be at least 1000 pixels on the longest side; Commons minimums are a little larger.

Judging from the angle of the shadows my guess is that this is late afternoon, facing north. In which case that would be Nob Hill. Another editor who reviewed this with me suggests that the old semaphore tower is visible on the horizon, which would make this early morning shooting west toward Telegraph Hill. The slope of the hill on the square probably hasn't changed, so maybe the building profiles could settle the question. I also wonder whether any of these buildings still stand. I think I identified some of them in a different 1880s photo. Question is whether this block survived the 1906 fire. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 21:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

In terms of other collections, try the spectacular collection at UC Berkeley's Bancroft Library (http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/collections/bancroft.html) - I'm not sure exactly what the license is for these images, but the old ones must all be PD.

About Portsmouth Square, just to be clear ... Telegraph Hill is north of Portsmouth Square, and Nob Hill is west of the Square. I've taken a look at Google Earth, the silhouette of Nob Hill (to the west) is close to the silhouette of the hills in the photo. Telegraph Hill (to the north) is smaller, more-pointed and farther away. Try it yourself! I'm hesitant to post the Google Earth screen shots here, but if you like, I can send them to you via email. About the buildings, this is an area that was destroyed in '06, and I don't recognize any of the buildings. Finally, about the shadows on the ground, if the image is looking west (my guess), the shadows are consistent with a mid-morning photograph. NorCalHistory (talk) 22:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I might have gotten my orientations wrong. Sure; e-mail me the images. This is intriguing. And thank you for the links! Durova^Charge! 22:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Glad to email you ... let me know what email address to use! NorCalHistory (talk) 23:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Ping me through my site e-mail and I'll respond. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 23:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW regarding San Francisco geography, remember I'm that dreaded blight upon the state: the southern Californian. I'm certain I've wandered through Portsmouth Square, but my mind was on dim sum, and I was probably noshing on Ghirardelli whenever I passed through Telegraph Hill or Nob Hill. In otherwords, spank me within a kilometer of Mexico: I'm clueless. ;) Durova^Charge! 01:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

PS: Thanks for the Castle Lake (California) copy-edit ... much appreciated! NorCal (talk) 00:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW: If you have Windows, as an alternative to Photoshop, for most restoration jobs, you might want to consider the free-ware open-source program Paint.NET, which you can download. I find that it's much easier to open and much easier to use, and has all the tools and gadgets I need 98% of the time! NorCal (talk) 00:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'm comfortable with Photoshop. I've also started an essay on image restoration, so I've made a note to add that to the list of software. Thanks for the heads up - useful freeware is always good to know about. Durova^Charge! 05:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

That copyright issue...

... I've responded on my talk page. Thanks for the input! Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible FPC

Saw your message on the MILHIST talk page. I've had this on my watchlist for a couple weeks but it might need cleanup. --BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 00:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting! Blown whites on the upper 12%, but I think we can get some slack for that. The image is definitely large enough and it looks like a good scan. Doesn't look like it needs much tweaking either. I'll see what I can do. Thank you for the heads up. Durova^Charge! 00:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

After restoration

I'm not really sure how this will be received. The composition and lingering smoke are exciting. At 300% I could tell there was lossy compression, especially in the darker zones. Not particularly sharp focus either. I've taken out the artifacts and fixed the scratches. If you like the result I'll put it up on peer review and see what the community thinks. Durova^Charge! 04:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

There's a black edge on the upper right corner. Otherwise I'll go with your judgment. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 05:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Good catch. Reloaded with problem corrected. Durova^Charge! 05:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

OK. Let's see what the folks @ peer review think, if you feel it's ready for that. Who gets the FP credit if it goes all the way? BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 05:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Only one way to find out. If they like it on peer review, how about conominating? Durova^Charge! 05:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

That's fine. I like collaboration.  :) BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 05:43, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool. If you find others, go ahead and drop them into my workshop (linked from the top of this page). Sometimes other editors fish something out of there and restore it if they like the shot. And ping me if you'd like to discuss it. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 05:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I've had my eye on this for a few days. Not a battle shot, but full color 1942.

I saw in there that you had a few of my Commons uploads in the gallery section (German troops on the march in 1914, German troops on the Belgian frontier, Douglas Fairbanks at a liberty bonds rally, and Italian mounted infantry in China). The color example you just put up looks good. I've hardly seen any colored battle shots. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 05:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

During this war there really wasn't a lot of color photography. I've located one parade shot of the liberation of Paris where the color balance is goofy. The best I've located so far - at least among freely licensed material - is some Kodachrome sheet film shots by photographers of the U.S. Farm Security Administration. Sometimes they documented training exercises. I could upload some aviation shots from Parris Island. Would that be helpful? Durova^Charge! 06:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

OK. --BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 06:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Halftrack infantryman with Garand rifle, Ft. Knox, Ky. June 1942 - artificial lighting with slightly blown highlights; I don't know the soldier's name or whether he survived the war.

These things take a while to download because the good files are often 150-200mb. I have to downsample of course. Durova^Charge! 06:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

That's an odd place for a lightbulb, but what do I know?  ;) If it's easier for you, I can keep track of your u/ls on Commons, so you don't have to keep posting them here, unless you feel like it. Otherwise I think this is another good one. The soldier's expression is serious enough. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 06:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to; you'll find that a lot of my recent uploads are much too small to be featured. For Alfred Palmer and the other wartime FSA photographers, the site loaded low resolution scans of their black and white work (over 90%) and really large files of anything in color. So while I sift for potential FAs I sometimes locate other encyclopedic material; a lot of it has nothing to do with military history. Durova^Charge! 07:02, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Funny that you mention that; 90% of the PD photos I've uploaded to Commons are easily military related in some way. Going back to topic, this is the first time I've had something go to picture peer review (just put up something else myself that I had bookmarked), so let me know either way when's the next step. I do have the page watchlisted. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 07:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure thing. I'm not sure whether this one will get very far; we'll see how it goes. The Alfred Palmer files crashed for some weird reason so I've surfed elsewhere and have just located a 1913 panorama of the Panama Canal being built. Fascinating! Durova^Charge! 07:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Finding it was half the task. Thanks for all the work in cleaning it up and putting it up for peer review. Wouldn't have come across the alternate version otherwise. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 04:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

That's what it's all about. :) Thanks for the help. Now I'm off to work on an M3 tank. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 04:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Does the co-nom mean an FPC already has 2 votes or do they still count as one? BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 04:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Two votes. Basically we're asking for shared credit if it passes. You searched, I edited and composed the nomination. FWIW the article where I placed it was a two sentence stub so I also translated some information from the German Wikipedia. Durova^Charge! 05:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Put in at Commons. Thanks for the notice. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 20:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Nudge

[13] Jehochman ^Talk 00:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for the heads up. Durova^Charge! 00:49, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Centralized TV Episode Discussion

Over the past months, TV episodes have been redirected by (to name a couple) TTN, Eusebeus and others. No centralized discussion has taken place, so I'm asking everyone who has been involved in this issue to voice their opinions here in this centralized spot, be they pro or anti. Discussion is here [14]. --Maniwar (talk) 00:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Durova^Charge! 01:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

How would one go about putting this on a community or a moderator watchlist notice? I have a feeling that this will become heated. I honestly think that community input is really needed and I feel that moderator input is truly needed. Lastly, would this be a good candidate for me to list on Jimbo's page? Thanks! --Maniwar (talk) 02:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo's page would be maybe a third recommendation after a request for comment and a post at the community bulletin board. If I knew how to keep site discussions from getting overheated...well...November would have been a much easier month. ;) I hope things work out better for you. Durova^Charge! 02:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm assuming that the village pump is a community bulletin board. I still am new on here and trying to learn things. I did place it in the village pump and there is already an RfC on the page...is there another place I could list it? Another community bulletin board? Thanks and those are my last questions for now :) --Maniwar (talk) 02:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

There's a diferent community bulletin board at the Community Portal.[15] Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 03:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your help and guidance

It is never about one article for me. But I wanted to show our community where the new information is coming from. If Matt Cutts a Google search engineer references Andy Beard on his blog that alone makes Andy notable. When many bloggers SEOs like Rand Fishken, Danny, Vanessa reference Andy or some idea they are not just bloggers but industry professionals. I hope our community will grow to understand the diffference about a senator blog and some small individual blog. Cheers, Igor Berger (talk) 07:01, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. It was mostly Jehochman's doing. Best wishes. Durova^Charge! 05:14, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I-P collaboration

Thanks for moving folks along on Palestinian costumes. Perhaps I've added this (and you) in vain, but you might want to look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration, which is inspired by some of the ArbCom discussion of the Sri Lanka effort. Thanks. HG | Talk 13:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

What a beautiful idea! Yes, I'll join immediately. Durova^Charge! 19:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)