User:Merbabu/Archive1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Welcome to Wikipedia!!!

Hello Merbabu/Archive1! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! -- Kukini Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Wikipedia Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Wikipedia rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

Kukini 06:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Sydney

Apologies if I offended with the complete revert, your contributions to the article have been of benefit to it. While I'm at it - here's an Aussie welcome! You might want to take a look at the Australian Wikipedians Noticeboard and consider joining WikiProject Sydney. Enjoy your time here. michael ^talk 12:35, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

ha ha - we had the same goal but different methods. I tried to fix it by incremental micro-surgery but you went the quick nuke option. Maybe that john guy needs to get his own web site devoted to sydney. I will check out those links. --Merbabu 12:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

He just needs to learn what wikipedia is and isn't and how to contribute effectively. michael ^talk 13:07, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia

Arabic is considered by most muslims to be the only language in which Islam should be taught so as to avoid mistranslations - Arabic is a language that is connected to the religion and in the past it would have been a perfectly viable question about Brazillian Catholics except that much of the Catholic Church has disregarded Church Latin these days. Also please learn to spell.Danlibbo 23:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually I have been to Indonesia and I speak Bahasa - I worked with INTERFET and with the UNTAET force afterwards. In the days when Latin was the language of Christianity it would have been very interesting to find a church which did not speak Latin, however those times are almost gone now, however, that the clear majority of mosques throughout the world speak Qur'anic Arabic for sermons and prayers and one country hasn't adopted this practice is interesting. Indeed it is proof that the Islam in Indonesia is different, that's the heart of the statement. Perhaps adding some discussion on the variety of Islam practised in Indonesia would also be beneficial, but to those with a knowledge of Islam looking for information on Indonesia, it would be interesting to find that Arabic is not even used in sermons. You seem to be mistaking this point for me saying that because Indonesia is predominantly Muslim they should speak Arabic in everyday life but that's just ridiculous. In the majority of mosques in non-Arabic countries (I know in Australia, the US, Canada, Europe, India, Pakistan, Russia and Japan) Arabic is still reserved and still used for sermons and prayers. Similarly, the majority of Coptic Christians still use Coptic as a language tied to their religion. In the end, that a nation with the world's largest population of Muslims it is an interesting fact that Arabic is rarely used considering that in most other countries in the world, most Muslims do.

That's the most ridiculous argument ever! That there are definitive names for languages. It is perfectly legitimate to refer to a language with it's native name especially when specifying, for example, that I'm not talking about any other of the hundreds of languages spoken in Indonesia. Also, Bahasa Indonesia is an official name for the language with many governments (including mine) and who better defines their language?

It's my little joke I've used - you can't hear the person over the Internet therefore "look 'here'"

no dramas. ha ha --Merbabu 01:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The government department I work for regularly refers to the official language of Indonesia as 'Bahasa Indonesia' partly to sound more sofisticated but mainly such that it is not confused with any other language. I apologise as you seem somewhat offended, but I still believe that the lack of Arabic is an interesting fact and should thus remain on the page. A probable middle ground is to expand the section on Religion to include specifics of the differences shown in Indonesian Islam.

nah - not offended. you gotta try harder than that, lol, but the spelling comment raised an eyebrow. he he. Hmm, as for "interesting" for me it is not the lack of Arabic, but the fact that Islam is practised differently to a more orthodox, Middle Eastern style. That is intereseting for me - and yes, i suppose the language is part of that, but just a detail. People can be very "deep" and committed in their belief in Islam, but at the same time, it does seem more relaxed and local. That is "interesting". --Merbabu 01:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I think it's a good compromise. I was thinking from the point of view of someone looking to do some research on Indonesia, it might get a schoolkid an extra mark on a project, or save someone buying an Arabic phrasebook before they go. The spelling comment was my housemate just trying to make my argument more bitchy, I apologise. I added links to 'Islam' and 'Arabic' but nice teamwork eh?

ha ha - OK, chances are a third person will stuff it all up anyway. By the way, do you know to add a sig to comments in Discussion and user pages? (in know it took me a while to work out). Press on the sig timestamp box immediately above this edit box. and you get this: --Merbabu 03:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

what was that point about what an encyclopedia is - an encyclopedia needs to take in to account the audience correct? Danlibbo 08:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not really sure what you mean. But i do know that neither of us can assume to speak for "the audience" except for ourselves. I presume you are talking about the International Dispute section? I think you have a pretty hard case when every other significant country does NOT have it on their main page. Why should Indonesia be any different? And if you are seriously NPOV, why don't you put a similar section in the AUstralian article??? I doubt you would. See my additions about each country on the Indonesia discussion page--Merbabu 09:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

PS, if we are to discuss "the audience", the International Dispute section was very Australia-centric (except maybe the aceh and PNG issues, but they are covered generously not just in this article). Wikipedia audience is not Aussie-centric, nor is Indonesian foreign relations. --Merbabu 09:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well done for your tireless efforts to expunge "Bahasa Indonesia" and replace it with the correct "Indonesian". Incidentally, many local expats here use the word "Bahasa" to mean Indonesian. It is very annoying, and entirely illogical. Worse, the habit has sread to Indonesians who want to appear sophisticated. This user does not need to hear your arguments again, but it seems others do! Keep it atas, oops, up. Davidelit 02:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Zoo TV

Please see my (lengthy) response in Talk:Zoo TV Tour. Wasted Time R 01:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

About Faerieangel

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to stop vandalism, but I have a few things to say. Faerieangel's first edit is not considered vandalism, she didn't know about the sandbox. Also, I think we should give her one more chance. This girl is my sister, and I'll try to take care of her. If she vandalises again, I give you permission to temporarly block her, while I give her a lesson. Lissa 14:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

U2

Merabu -- no worries about you clobbering my edits on the U2 article. I think we were coincidentally editing it at almost the same time. I'm trying to add some references (and probably I should get to bed), but let's see if we can get this article to featured status! Wikipedia brown 07:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there was some garbage in there but it was my intent to reinstate your worthy contributions - i was in the process of resinstating some of yours, but you'd already done it! I think articles on popular music are hard for wiki - they just turn into fan sites if where not careful, there is enough of that on the web, wiki should be different. Your work with links should improve it's quality. yes, this article has become a little pet for me. ha, ha. My biggest hate is "fluff" or irrelevant stuff - did my revert remove the details on the colour of the iPod headphone jack? - how stupid was that - lol. Some get carried away. --Merbabu 08:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I think the iPod stuff is still there, you may want to check. I agree with you on the style of popular music articles -- that's why I'm trying to find negative reviews and include them in the article too (I'm surprised that u2.com actually has some of these negative reviews on their site too ... that's very cool!). Anyways, keep up the good work on fluff removal patrol. Wikipedia brown 17:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if we want to see the article on our favorite band being raised to featured status, we've got to keep the fancruft away... BTW, you've been doing some great work on the article! I hope it'll soon be ready to go through a peer review! --Kristbg 20:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Sport in New South Wales

Hi Merbabu! I don't quite see the need for your latest edits to Sport in New South Wales. I have explained what I would prefer at Talk:Sport in New South Wales, and would appreciate your views on the matter. Thanks, JPD (talk) 13:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

lol - i don't feel too strongly about it. I felt if it was going to be NSW (with which i agree rather than sydney), then i would shift the emphasis a bit. It seemed to be all about how important sydney was, in the manner that we have come to expect from a certain editor. As i said, i am happy for you to change my edits. cheers. --Merbabu 13:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Jack

I think the block will be beneficial. However you are correct that your own response might have been handled better: the three-revert rule applies to all parties to an edit war. Thanks, --cj | talk 13:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be a frequent reverter of Jackp's vandalism, so I ask you to comment here: [1] (bottommost section). Skinnyweed 13:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Westfield Tower

Are you sure Sydney Tower is now Westfield Tower, per your changes to Skyscrapers in Sydney? I can't find any source other than [2] which gives details of the proposed Westfield Tower at Centrepoint as part of (I assume) the redevelopment of Pitt Street. --Steve 04:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually i am not sure. A sydney skyscraper expert specifically told me it was the case - but i will try to confirm. Although, i did have second thoughts on the issue and i am happy to have it as "Sydney Tower (officially Westfield Tower)". I will look into it.--Merbabu 04:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Sydney

If you're working towards a featured article, take a look at what a featured article should look like: Canberra. michael ^talk 13:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not going to enter into a petty debate on section after section; if I was an admin I would have had Jackp blocked months ago and with little fuss. The simple fact remains: what isn't making it a better article shouldn't be there. Making it more like Canberra, Johannesburg or Hong Kong is improving it. Adding in stupid, trivial rubbish isn't. Adding in unrequired and confusing headings isn't. michael ^talk 13:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, merbabu! Thanks for fixing the architecture move. I am a bit disturbed that someone else thinks there is a point to having an Education in Sydney article, but I guess it doesn't hurt too much. As for these headings, I'm not completely against them, but Jack definitely hasn't got them right. I have some made some comments at the talk page concerning what I see as the options - please give your opinion. JPD (talk) 19:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Jack

Not having been following the Jackp controversy, I have just been having a look at his recent "contributions" - you guys (Sydney editors) have definitely had a struggle on your hands! He definitely doesn't appear to be getting it. Maybe point him to http://www.wikitravel.org ? -- Chuq 10:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Architecture in Sydney

I wrote a section on Sydney Architecture, here it is, should it go on the Sydney page, tell me what you think on my discussion page.

Sydney is certinly not characterised by any particular architectural style, having accumulated its buildings over a long period of time.

The city has many densely concentrated skyscrapers and other buildings including historic sandstone buildings such as the Sydney Town Hall and Queen Victoria Building, which are interspersed by several parks such as Wynyard and Hyde Park. In itself, the City contains a wide variety of styles, ranging from old and new, such as the many Art Deco buildings. The world recognized landmarks, the Sydney Opera House and Sydney Harbour Bridge are some of the many highlights of Sydney architecture. Notable recent buildings are the 1970s, AMP Tower (also known as the Sydney Tower and the Centerpoint Tower), providing brilliant scenic veiws of the city and harbour.

Several monuments pay homage to people and events in the city. Such as the Arthur Phillip statue in the Royal Botanic Gardens, the Archibald Fountain and the ANZAC War Memorial.

Jackp 08:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Sydney Opera House in pop culture

Hi Merbabu! The problem with your use of the template was that you put ¦ instead of |. I am not sure whether a merge template will lead to anything actually happening, and it's all already at the main article, so would you mind if I simply put it up for deletion? JPD (talk) 13:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• PLEASE put it up for deletion - i was just trying to be diplomatic when i suggested a merge. ha ha. (btw, how does one put something up for deletion?) Cheers. --Merbabu 13:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I've listed it for proposed deletion, using {{subst:prod}}. If anyone objects to this and removes the tag, I will take to Wikipedia:/Articles for Deletion, since this topic surely doesnt' deserve an article. At least with some of Jack's previous new articles I could imagine someone turning into a good article eventually! JPD (talk) 13:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Pic

I removed a red link to an image. The image had already been deleted by someone else. Perhaps it was in copyright violation.--Dcooper 14:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, this is about architecture in Sydney

Hi Merbabu,

I've written "architecture in Sydney", and I hope you like it. There were somethings that said before I should add to the article that I was unsuccessful on finding, but I think if you'd like to touch it up, then I'll post it below. I've added it to the page on Sydney, and if you have something to say, add or suggest then leave a message on my talk page, here it is:

Architecture

Sydney’s skyline is not characterized by any particular architectural style, having accumulated its buildings over a long period of time.

Many prominent architects that are responsible for a large amount of iconic Sydney structures, such as the iconic colonial architect Francis Greenway Between 1816 and 1818, whilst still a convict, Greenway was responsible for the design and construction of the Macquarie Lighthouse on the South Head at the entrance to Sydney Harbour. His most famous works include the Hyde Park Barracks, St. James Church and the new Govermant building. Danish architect, Jorn Utzon, responsible for quite possibly the most famous Sydney structure, the contemprary Sydney Opera House which has since it’s opening in 1973 by the Queen Elizabeth, has become one of the most recognizable buildings in the world and makes Sydney’s skyline differ from many other cities due to it’s shape, which are suppose to resemble sails.

The late 1980s and early to mid 1990s resulted in a skyscraper boom in Sydney, but height restrictions limited future buildings to the height of 235 meters, to provide better views from certain buildings. The skyline is dominated by the highest, which is the Centrepoint Tower (or less more commonly the Sydney Tower) at The tower stands 305 metres above the central business district, it is located at 120 Market Street, between Pitt and Castlereagh Streets, accessible from the Pitt Street Mall, and sits upon Centrepoint (to which the tower is often referred as), an office building and shopping centre. The tower is open to the public, and is one of the most prominent tourist attractions in the city, being visible from a number of vantage points throughout town and from adjoining suburbs. The second largest at 244m is the Chifley Tower, which was completed in 1992 and is located at 2 Chifley Sqaure. Among the others are Citigroup Centre and the latter consisting predominantly of residential apartments. Sydney skyline is by far the most recognizable in Australia and is home to some of Australia's tallest skyscrapers, with 134, it has the largest skyline in Australia. The spectacular backdrop of Sydney Harbour means its real estate is amongst the most expensive in the world.

Jackp 11:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

U2 Page--Occasionally

I removed occasionally and will continue to remove the offending word because it has no place in the intro body of the article. If you feel it should be added as a footnote or included in subsequent sub-sections, feel free to add it. By placing it in the intro paragraph, you are slowing down the flow of the article. It is clumsy, irrelevant usage.

--24.91.89.149 20:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It may be "clumsy", but if people insist on saying that Larry plays keyboards in U2 and Bono's plays harmonica, then occassional is needed for accuracy, proportion and correct emphasis which is more important than article flow. Mentioning the key-board and harmonica in the first sentance is even more clumsy and irrelevant.

Process ongoing

I am in the middle of a process wherby Muslim History (The history of the Muslim people) and Islamic History (The history of the development of the religion of Islam) will be seperate and distinct, as they are, serperate and distinct. There is nothing particularly "Islamic" about, say, Akbar, but, he was a Muslim and had a major impact on the history of Muslims, especially in the Indian Subcontinent. On the other hand, Abu Lahab ibn 'Abdul Muttalib was not a Muslim, but did play a role in the formation of the Islamic religion. I am in the process, firstly, of making the Muslim History category representative, after which i will make an Islamic history, which will include people like Bukhari, Imam Malik, etc --Irishpunktom\^talk 13:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment summary

Sorry --62.255.236.71 04:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Links to id language

Hi, thanks for your message. I'm just inclined to see a wikilink pointed to the actual article, sans redirect. Btw, you did a good job in "Englishifying" those wikilinks. Cheers. *drew 04:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Transmigration program

First of all, it seems like my first edit summary is simply incorrect, my apologies. I was way too tired to be editing properly last night and I was talking on the phone with a friend at the same time. It looks like this was a bad combination. Regarding the first edit, I only remembered updating two links, and changing a bit linguistically (and I'm rather surprised that I completely forgot proofreading the result.) My edits were simply prompted by seeing Indonesian government as a redlink, and originally, I hadn't planned on changing anything except this link. When I look at the material now, I can't remember ever making most of the edit, so phonecalls and editing are a bad combination. My apologies again. I have no problems with the conclusions you draw regarding the subject. I've reverted the page to how it looked before I messed it up, and then changed a few of the stylistic issues (which was what I was supposed to have done last night.) Regards. Valentinian ^(talk) 08:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. The fault was mine, since I was obviously not capable of editing properly last night :) I don't know how on earth I managed to create so much rubbish in one edit, so my apologies again. I hope you can see now what I was supposed to have done. Your reaction was quite understandible and I'd probably have reacted in a similar fashion had I seen a page I care about being trashed in the same way. Anyway, I have absolutely no hard feelings against you, and I hope you can forgive me this error. Happy editing. Valentinian ^(talk) 13:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Melbourne

Sorry Merbabu, I think I reverted incorrectly to the version before that by most clicking on the corret old reversion.Sorry.Blnguyen | rant-line 07:59, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: South East Asia and Indonesian

No worries. I thought it must be some Malaysian, too. I'm only vaguely interested in that sort of area, and look at those sort of articles fairly randomly, unlike Sydney type articles, which I actively watch and contribute too. JPD (talk) 15:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia Project

Hey there, thanks for joining. If you dont mind, probably the best thing to do now is to categorize articles (the quality and scale of importance). Once again, thanks. Cheers -- Imoeng 06:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Bird's Head

Hello. I changed it when creating Bird's Head article. In my home atlas and also in MSN Atlas online it is Jazirah Doberai but now I've realized that Kepala Burung has far more Google hits so it would be good to turn it back. - Darwinek 09:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Sydney's global city status

What the hell does Sydney’s status as a global city have to do with the cities economy, its like everything good about Sydney has to be hidden/removed in this article. Why is it under economy, its just ludicrous! Jfpearce 07:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

National Merit

The Barnstar of National Merit This is for your exceptional contributions to Indonesia-related articles. Great going! Take care -- Imoeng 11:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Jackp

He's easily enough dealt with. Block and revert, then rinse and repeat if he continues. Don't engage him in discussion, as it'll just encourage him. He'll get bored eventually. Rebecca 03:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Indonesia Collaboration

Hey there, I just want to ask for your suggestion. As we all know, there are just few "good" Indonesian articles, which means lots of effort is needed to improve them. What do you reckon about this collaboration plan? Please put any suggestion and respond on the WikiProject's talk page. Cheers, take care -- Imoeng 11:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think I'll make it now, hahahaha. Give me half an hour and you can check. Btw, whereabout in Australia? I'm in Melbourne. Imoeng 12:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

No wait, give me an hour or so. But I think, with only five members, we don't need a very sophisticated page yet, don't you think? Oh, and please give your vote on WP:FPCAN Cheers! -- Imoeng 12:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah the collaboration info page. So what do you think? Hahahaha, I think for now we don't need one. So just talk about it on the project talk page and choose one article and work on it for a week. What do you reckon? Imoeng 12:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Thats good, everything has to start somewhere :P Please check the project talk page, Sepa recommended Kartini. Cheers -- Imoeng 12:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi again. A few days ago i remember seeing a tag at the bottom of Indonesia articles - ie, "Indonesian Portal". I can't find it now. But i have noticed a new one - "Indonesian Topics" for example towards the bottom of the Indonesia article. Can you explain?? I ask because i wanted to know if i should put the Indonesia Portal sign on any articles on Indonesia. Merbabu 13:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC) Just put {{portal|Indonesia}} on any relevant article. Well, if you have enough energy to put that on every article, please feel free! That Indonesian topics template is the one I've made, just to make it easier to navigate the categories. Sorry, just want to ask

• Have you comment on the WP:FPCAN??
• Have you suggest a new collaboration??

Sorry about that, just want to make sure (Do I sound like a dick?). Cheers -- Imoeng 13:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

There is no any specific way to add that actually. However, most articles have the portal links on the "external links" part. So, its really doesn't really matter. Just make sure it is easy to see. Also, if you can, please categorize the article for its quality and importance. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Assessment. Cheers -- Imoeng 13:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Things to do

• Put Indonesian portal template (thats right)
• Select the appropriate importance. It is very subjective, but it is the best thing we have now, we'll discuss it sometimes
• Select the appropriate quality scale. It is also very subjective. But don't put the GA and above quality as we need to request the status first. That is why I made a "status requester page". So if its very good, just put B-class.

CHeers-- Imoeng 13:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Oke2, gw ngantuk abis. Ahahahah. Can we swap email or msn or something? So its efficient -- Imoeng 13:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration

The new collaboration page has been created. For now, it is a "collaboration of the week" with standard rules and stuff, which later we can decide for any changes. But now, lets start nominating articles (one article for each person!) and voting. Please take a look at the page. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Sock Puppet???

You recently blocked 202.6.138.34. I am fairly certain this is a sock for the infamous Jackp. He's got a few other socks around: Jfp-24 and Movie-lover93 and Jfpearce. He's a real disruptive pain in the you-know-where. I noticed you temporarily blocked this URL. Can only mods block people (ie, are you a mod) or can all editors do this? Hope you can help. Cheers. Merbabu 13:40, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Merbabu. Yes, I temporarily (for 24 hours) blocked that IP address for editing because of vandalism. Only administrators can block users (see Wikipedia:Administrators for information), but any user can report vandals to WP:AIV after the vandal has been appropriately warned (see Wikipedia:Vandalism#Dealing_with_vandalism). —Mets501 (talk) 13:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Keling

Well, actually I'm not entirely new, but just deciding to have a real contribution where there is a new WikiProject:Indonesia. It's a good project. Good that there is somebody like Imoeng. ;-) About keling, it's actually not a positive way of calling these Tamil in Medan. But since it's been a long time people in Medan called them keling behind their back, this mocking name has been attached to them. However kampung keling is a real official name. I'll try to help Medan article about this. I'll see you around then in the WP:INA project. — Indon 21:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

English Please

Hi Tamaneden. Please remember this is the English language version of Wikipedia, thus we need to use, for example, "Indonesian" and "Central Java", rather than "Bahasa Indonesia" and "Jawa Tengah". Of course, in limited places where appropriate, the Indonesian may be put in brackets afterwards. You cite the example of the French page. Well, if they have used French instead of English then that is INCORRECT and copy someone else who is incorrect is no justification for doing the same incorrect thing here.

On a related note, i noticed you put in some quite informative peices about the Indonesian media, however, they were mixed in with your use of incorrect "Bahasa Indonesia" instead of "Indonesian" and they were reverted and lost. I would support you reinstating these references as long as you don't put "Bahasa Indonesia" all the way through. FOr example, in the Indonesian language version of Wikipedia, do you refer to "English" or "Bahasa Inggris". And in the English Wikipedia, we don't say "Deutsch", we say "German". As i said, you media edits were otherwise good - please keep up the good work. Cheers. Merbabu 12:58, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Could you please explain to me why the OFFICIAL names of Negeri Sembilan in Malaysia and Tohoku in Japan have never been translated into English even though it is VERY easy to do so? Tamaneden

Re:Tamaneden

Hi Merbabu. Thank you for explaining the importance of using English names to Tamaneden. The examples that you provided sound convincing enough to me. :) *drew 04:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Demographics

Hello. I obtained the figures from the corresponding ID Wikipedia. Frankly I don't believe it is somewhat reliable. However, the template requires one to add these data. I suggest those data shouldn't be included in the infobox. *drew 09:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Indonesian collabs

Hey how are you? I was just wondering can we stop the voting process now and decide the article? As probably no one will vote anymore. Thank you -- 10:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Mount Merbabu

What do you think about http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris2/keris_1suro.html  ? Just an idea :) SatuSuro 11:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

White space comment - Please understand I do not wish to denigrate your hard work! With respect, if some of the other eds I know would see that art they would be rude and ruthless. Having lived in Yk I dont wish to be either :) I had friends who did the indonesian course there :) SatuSuro 13:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

No Hurry! I have more unfinished projects than either of us could count! I had wanted to do expansions on the places that I have photos of in the Bantul/Yogya area - Salatiga is a once visited in the 1980s for me, so maybe I'm not the best to check :) SatuSuro 14:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Dont even let me start on "folk etymologies" and place names in Java - trained as an anthropologist at one stage I understand the validity at one level - but then...:)SatuSuro 15:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Is this Merbabu?

Is this Merbabu, a stalker?!? Are you the one that continues to block me for no real reason, apart from the fact that you assume I’m jackP…and the fact that there has been nothing wrong with my edits, as they have all been kept and accepted, yet you still block me, YOUR actions are a bit perplexing!! Kill-bill-93 12:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, i cannot block anyone - i am not an admin. Your name looks very similar to Movie Lover 93, who is known sock of Jackp, and you edit the same articles in the same style as Jackp and movie-lover. As for your posts as Kill Bill 93, well, they started 30mins ago and I am not yet 100% sure you are Jackp, but i would put money on it. It's interesting given that your previous sock was blocked about 60mins ago. Merbabu 12:11, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Hows it going?

Hey Merbabu, I just want to say hi, hehehe. So how are you and what you've been up to here? Hopefully you'll reply, :P Cheers -- Imoeng 12:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

At least he didnt ask apa kabar :(

The Volcanoes of Java article is a disgrace. To be a proper encyc art it needs (a) a list (b) a good biblio (c) a map. If you want encouragement or clues please ask! SatuSuro 13:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

A request

Hi tamaneden. I see you are visiting quite a few indo-related articles. Can I ask a favour. COuld you insert the Indonesia Portal tag in each one you visit. Ie, you need to insert the text . If the coding doesn't appear, just click edit on this page and you will see. Please put near end of article, above categories. If article has an External Links section, just put it there. Ie, see Mount Merbabu. If you can do this it would be great! Any questions, just let me know. Thanks! Merbabu 05:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok. No problem Tamaneden

References to Aceh in Indonesia tourism

Yes, it's a bit difficult. The current situation is that there is already 1-year peace deal. Of course, it is not the end result, as anything can happen. I just removed a speculative statement, as to avoid an opinion view. — Indon 08:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Proyek Gila

(a) It's a pity you arent wired for email. Look through any ref, or as you want further rdg, and you'll find in most places that the conventions for refs are (1) Surname, First Name, Title, date,publisher and isbn as bare minumum - although there are some geeks who have a massive template that looks like godzilla in hidden format :) (2) author surname is usually in alpha order in lists of refs - the problem with wikipedia is that there seem to be about up to 5 different conventions being used despite the official version :( (b) Sub headings - Bali has more books/online/etc about travel tourism than any other part of indonesia, and for the critiques during the new order era - the jakarta interference with balinese culture was a significant political issue in bali. Sub headings - Visit Indonesia decade - was the biggest project of the suharto government machine in shaping indonesia for mass tourism (and failed ironically in some of the most ambitious years)

ho hum SatuSuro 11:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Volcanoes in Java - could we have a talk about the way to go? SatuSuro 11:50, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Volcanoes in Java

Could we talk about the way to go with this? SatuSuro 12:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

he he - have you checked the article recently? Volcanoes of Java Look - this is just the start. I've combined the two pages the way i suggested - but of course, the info is still the same old s#@$. Yes, now we could work on getting that info in. ie, the suggestions both of us have made. I don't know about you, but my style is to "have a bash" and get something just 1/2 decent, or even less, and then throw it on the table for all to work on. Merbabu 12:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'm about to put a list in. :0 SatuSuro 12:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

you make me as nervous as we know who :) SatuSuro 12:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Its taking a bit longer than I expected - what are you like in making tables/boxes ?SatuSuro 12:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The point is to make a list that is in harmony with the us volcano databases that list all phenomenon - you dnt have to write an art for each :) SatuSuro 12:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

God only hopes that the freocious admins that I know dont shoot your section heading out of the water, has anybody tolf ypou about sandboxes on your uuser page yet :) or should that be ;) SatuSuro 13:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

It may seem logical for you to have put an article in a category, but you'll never get a GA for it, as some smart cookie will take it down for that reason :) SatuSuro 08:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Jackp

lol I know, he's so predictable with his edits and the articles he hits. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 13:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

• kudos, Merbabu, for all your work on Jackp patrol. Skeezix1000 21:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Dotting the Ts and filling in the Is

Thanks for that :) SatuSuro 03:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

WP Template

How are you going? Thanks for significantly tagging heaps of articles with the template. Cheers -- Imoeng 04:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

) Merbabu 05:05, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Constitution of Indonesia

Hi there. Can I ask some advice? A user has put a 'stub' tag on the page Constitution of Indonesia. He doesn't have a userpage, so I can't ask him why, but I can't see the point. I don't want to get into an editing war, but I would apprectiate your thoughts as somebody who has also made edits to the page. Regards. Davidelit 16:42, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. It's been removed. Davidelit 05:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Kampung Keling

Hi, how are you? I was browsing news today and stumbled on this story: [3]. I remembered that you've an interest in Tamil community in Medan. You might want to read it. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 04:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi too. I lived in Kampung Keling for three years (96-99). Did our paths cross? By the way, I was there a few months ago - it hasn't chaged much. Davidelit 05:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

ISlands

Good to see your calm collected comment on an island talk page. Basically, I consider that most islands are of high importance, as Indonesia is basically one vast collection of islands :) However, as imoeng has said himself - some of this stuff despite all intents and purposes ends up being subjective, its up to us :) Perhaps to placate your placid response, it might be worth considering a heirarchy of islands? I dont think we're doing a sine curve graph here, but - you never know :) SatuSuro 07:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, considering the number that I have done in the last day or so - and if you have some need/desire to check them, you'd probably save a lot of time not necessarily commenting on each one - but if you have ones that bother you so much - would be to make a list, and send the gripes en masse :) as I am about to go out, it would be a nice way to start the week "You have new message" and your list of items that give you anxiety  :) SatuSuro 07:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, as long as we give your reasoning on each - otherwise we leave ourselves open if we change status within boxes without comment - it would leave opportunity for adept vandals to really foul the whole system up rather quickly :( SatuSuro 07:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Point taken - I suppose I have made a mistake or two - I think the guiding principle I was thinking of was all ethnic groups (regardless of numbers) as being at the same level - otherwise that leads to some unfortunate issues not worth thinking about. SatuSuro 07:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Spot on - (re mistakes) some outsiders/non wikipedia people would say we should be outside of all this and getting a real life :) SatuSuro 07:41, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Category:Natural history of Indonesia

You might need to know it has been gutted of content with no comment :0 SatuSuro 11:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Beel

Was that really necessary? unsigned - and on a talk page of a subject, surely you should have sent that to my talk page, and what's the point? SatuSuro 13:49, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Also if you had read, it was a male not a female :) SatuSuro

It would be a good idea to have a read of Wikipedia:Etiquette and take it easy. SatuSuro 13:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you serious? That is a rather ironic statement given your edits on a number of people's user pages in regarding what you refer to as "Proyek Gila". There is much advice I could give you but have chosen not to. Actaully, I am not sure what you are specifically referring to. You are implying some fairly wide and general allegations. "Wikipedia Etiquette" does not say i cannot change something i don't agree with particularly if i provide decent reasoning. Merbabu 14:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

(1) I have no problem about going back over my contribs and re-weighing the status, by spreading them out - but we need to know what the priority is in common understanding - lets say there are at least 1,000 arts related directly to Indonesia, presumably there are 100+ subjects and people re Dutch era, and for each main subject area, probably about 100 each, would you prefer a weekly budget?

I havent seeen anything in the Portal or project which talks of a priority in relation to articles being reviewed. If there is something, please let me know, and I'll put my energy back into Tasmania and Western Australia for a week or two, no problems :) if that would take the stress out of reviewing the issues. :)

I was under the possible misapprehension that the ultimate aim of the portal/project was to have all related articles tied in over time. Lets assume good faith on this one :) SatuSuro 14:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh come on! isn't one meant to assume good faith on every "one"? Assuming good faith is a two way street so please return the favour to myself and other editors on the "Proyek Gila". Vague but harsh criticism to "consult Wikipedia etiquette" and to "take it easy" is hardly assuming good faith. I certainly assumed good faith, I commented about why i changed things, and either told you where i agree or didn't touch your ranks. You haven't even told me what your problem is. And what is with the constant smiley face on every comment you post?

As for the ranking of importance, why else would it be done if not to work out priorities for the project? Merbabu 14:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

My full and complete apologies if you feel that my response to the Beel talk page is over the top, I will gladly refrain from causing you obvious agony by classifying any articles if that is the issue. SatuSuro 14:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

well, suit yourself. But I think that is a perfectly childish response. You will spare me the "agony" of ranking? lol - i think you should grow up. I think you are the one who is upset that someone dare change your edits. And although i would't call it upset, i certainly don't think much of your reaction. Merbabu 14:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm a bit msytified why this is on your talk page.

I have no problem with anybody changing any edits on any article that I have contributed for the whole time that I've been on wikipedia. Clearly the misunderstandings continue. I welcome any criticism about any of the levels on the status of articles. SatuSuro 14:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I saw it come up on your talk page before it came to mine.SatuSuro 14:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Volcanoes

Hello. Please do not add Indonesian volcanoes to "Volcanoes of Indonesia" category. Those volcanoes are marked by subcategories of this cat so it is unnecessary to mark it in that way. - Darwinek 14:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm - some were, some weren't. I want consistency, so i went one way. Should all volconoes now be removed from that category? While we're at it, what do you think about the Category:Mountains of Indonesia? Ie, most (all?) Indonesian mountains are volcanoes. Merbabu 14:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I will do it. Few weeks ago I have created articles about almost all volcanoes on Flores Island. I plan to do more Indonesian volcanoes in future. Great reference is http://www.volcano.si.edu - Darwinek 14:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Most of them are volcanoes. But we should say only most. If you'll look at website above, you will find out there are de facto no volcanoes on Borneo and Sulawesi, yet highest points of these islands are higher than 3000 m I think. See List of islands by highest point. - Darwinek 14:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I think there is only one volcano on Lombok so if I remember it well, I have deleted it in the past here. It will work on Ebulobo too, but this category isn't created yet. - Darwinek 15:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a hoax. I categorize articles for almost two years and still I think users should manually create them. I will go ahead and create it. You can help with populating it. Lesser Sundas will be good for now, "Flores" subcat could be maybe created in future. - Darwinek 15:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Lesser Sunda Islands category created but still almost empty. - Darwinek 15:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me

This Nicole Kidman debate has been going on long enough. She has never EVER once refered to herself and an American. She ALWAYS refers to herself as an Australian. This so called dual nationality is just another ploy to make it look like people can pick and chose for themselves what nationality they can concider her. I have added that she has an american nationality as well, but it must be known what she is Australian or American. Since her calls herself Australian, that is what she will be refered to. Furthermore, I wil, not stop editing it, because I am sicxk of this confusion on wheither she is an American. She is not and a person can only be refered to one country, not two. It does not dedny she has American nationality (on her passport), but she lives in Australia and has always called herself an Australian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sliat 1981 (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

How do you get a reliable source when its on television? If you watch her on tv, it's things she says like, 'fellow australians' or when she's interviewed 'being from australia i...' I thought I did the right thing by keeping her dual nationality thing in the first paragraph. A lot of Auystralians are born overseas, yet are rightly concidered australian. Naomi Watts, Olivia Newton John are rightly concidered Australian. Being born in another country does not make you that nationality. Vivia Leigh was born in India, but I don't see anyone calling her Indian. Olivia de Harland was born in Japan, but noone calls her Jspanese.

I never said she was American - you continue to miss my point. Anyway, see my comments on you user page. --Merbabu 06:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you were the one who just wrote the last comment on my page (it was unsigned), but it isn't up to just three people to decide what the first paragraph should say. Besides, if I can't revert it, I'll just type it out again. It doesn't really bother me.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sliat 1981 (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

Don't tell me to relax, why can't YOU just relax and leave it like it is?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sliat 1981 (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

Transmigration and Indonesia

New York Times-8 Apr 1950 - "The two major military revolts and a number of minor disturbances in Indonesia since the first of the year should not be ascribed solely to the difficulties of a young and relativelt weak Government in keeping order. The weakness of the Government has been a factor, no doubt, but, paradoxically, it is the strength of some elements that has invited trouble. There is a very real political basis for some of the things that are happening.

The agreement that set up an independent United States of Indonesia was based on the concept of a federation of sixteen component parts. The Dutch had insisted that some such government structure was neccessary because of the widely diverse elements in the archipelago and the fact that many areas and population groups were not willing to come under the rule of the Republic centered in Java. The Republic had insisted on a unitary Government, under its control, but eventually agreed to the federal idea. The Republic was to be the largest single component in the federation.

Since the transfer of sovereignty, however, the Republic has systematically and progressively dynamited the federation idea. By a series of "decrees" the "federal" Government has attached state after state to the Republic until the original sixteen components have already been reduced to seven, with the prospect that they will shortly be only four. It is against the strongest of these four, East Indonesia, that the latest drive is being made. Naturally, there is resistance and the result is disorder." ...

New York Times-27 Apr 1950 - "Amboinese Secede From Indonesia In New Federation's Forth Revolt

By The Associated Press 

JAKARTA, Indonesia, April 26

- Amboinese authorities declared the South Moluccas independent today. A radio message to Macassar told of this, the fourth revolt in four months within the United States of Indonesia." ...

New York Times-9 Mar 1958 - "Indonesian conflict: Forces behind the open revolt

Conditions in Indonesia have long been ripe for the disruptive clash of forces signalized by the formation in Central Sumatra of a revolutionary regime opposed to the Central Government in Jakarta." ...

I think you are either exaggerating the region's joy with TNI Generals or have a very limited understanding of Indonesia or colonialism. Separatism is reported in Aceh and Papua because large numbers of people have been willing to die to express their view to a armed and hostile TNI regime. Or do you imagine Gen. Yudhoyono marks the coming of a new age of peace and loving care and respect; of course Gen. Yudhoyono has in fact promoted Gen. Suharto as a national hero, increased militarization, supported jihadist camps across Papua, released indicted TNI officers after officer for murder and rape while non-Javanese like the twelve Papuans are illegally transported from the Papua court to Jakarta court system where the TNI involvement in the planning & conduct of the Timika ambush and murder of the Americans has been covered up. It is a shame you require people to die before you even consider that they may not be willing members of the TNI State.211.30.222.139 02:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Huh? I don't know who you are or why you thought to write the above. Nor do i know what you are trying to say. Something about the RMS in the 1950s and SBY today? Given that you have no account, just and anon IP I am inclined to remove this vague, pointless, yet sarcastic section from my talk page. What is clear is that you are implying I have some horrible POV that clashes with your own self righteous view of the world (whatever that is). Even if that was correct, it is completly irrelevant. These talk pages are about the articles. NExt time, please make a specific reference to an article and exactly where you disagree - whoever you may be. --Merbabu 03:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia - media section

Hi how are you? Do you think we really need that media section? As I've compared the article with some other countries and I reckon it is not really necessary. Plus, the entry is rather not enough for a subheading. Cheers -- Imoeng 12:54, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, ahahah, that is why we need people like you. Hey btw, I've found the reason why Indonesia has so many muslims. I'll write it now and probably you can "make a sentence from three sentences". Thanks very much! Imoeng 13:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Umm, I cannot put it in, could you write it? The main idea is that between 1996 to 1998, Suharto began a policy to relocate citizens on Java and Sumatra to other islands, which coincidentally, mostly were Muslims (muslim or Muslim??) Well, you could check this and Islam in Indonesia. Cheers -- Imoeng 13:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Wait, wait, hehehe, sorry. Just say 1996-2001 by looking at this. Cheers -- Imoeng 13:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Jackp

Thanks for the heads up - truth be told I looked through his edits and he seems to be making valid contributions at the moment? - Glen 01:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Bali

See talk. Thanks for your comments. Kaisershatner 13:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Category:Fauna of Indonesia

Please stop removing the {{Cfd}} tag for this category. The template specifically states:

"Please do not empty the category or remove this notice while the discussion is in progress." (Emphasis added.)

The reason the main category is listed is because this is a subcategory of the main category. I have enough to do without constantly revisiting this page to put the tag back. I'm nominating it, discuss it on the discussion page, and leave the tag alone. Thank you.—Chidom ^talk  03:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

While it's a bit of a stupid nomination, he isn't actually removing the categories, so I don't see too much of a problem at this point - it's more that he's just tagged every potential category which could be affected, which helps to let editors know that the proposal is there. Rebecca 00:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Merbabu, I'm not really understand about this policy, as I've never used/added/edited Category in Wikipedia. So I don't know what to do with it. However, I'm concern about his mass deletion proposal. I see from the above message that nothing harm has been done. He might be just another tag contributor at WP ;-). All right, if he wants to delete Category Fauna of Indonesia, we should prepare for another one. I think it is better to make category based on the Wallace line, isn't it? Well, let's keep it like that first. — Indon (reply) — 07:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. Actually, I found where I should give a comment after I wrote the message above. — Indon (reply) — 08:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous comments on my user page

Thanks for the support Merbabu! I can't stand anonymous critics. (Caniago 08:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC))

Dab pages

Another wacko has created mess again. This page: Jambi, Riau and Yogyakarta have changed into disambiguation pages, which broke down many links. The worst is Yogyakarta as if you click Yogyakarta (city) in there it links back to the disambiguation page. The Yogyakarta (city) page is now disappeared. Can you help to vote back those pages to be primary name? Thanks. — Indon (reply) — 11:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Tobias

Hi Merbabu, I've left a message about Tobias on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents

If you know any other ways to get an administrator to stop this guy, please feel free to do so. (Caniago 06:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC))

Sorry

Hey sorry Merbabu, I should've talked more politely on WP:PR. Cheers -- Imoeng 06:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Were you impolite? Oh. I missed that. lol. You should have kept quite and I wouldn't have noticed it. --Merbabu 06:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

History on Indonesia

Hi there. Recently I've examined History of Indonesia and found that some of the info on Indonesia about history cannot be found there. So, it is strange because the more general page has more information. In case of that, I suggest we move (really really move, like cut and paste) Reformasi and New Order, also some other things, if appropriate to History of Indonesia and start the History section from scratch, by summarising History of Indonesia. Whos with me? Cheers -- Imoeng 09:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesian history

So, finally I've finished it, and I am sure it cannot get any shorter as the history is pretty complicated, especially during 1998 to 2004. And if you want to compare it with India or Australia, I think the size is the same, or maybe shorter, I don't know, :P. Please comment or fix my low quality English, people are not perfekt. :P Cheers -- Imoeng 13:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh btw, maybe you should archive your talk page :P

Yeah I will keep an eye on him. Oh and could you tell me how can I improve the history section? Maybe I can expand it a bit more while later you can copy edit it. Cheers -- Imoeng 00:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

humour

Yep I have a sense of humour, but your comment was in line with the general run of idiotic vandalism this article attracts. And yes I know this is the talk page - just comments like this just don't help. I let it go when I first saw the comment, but wondered why you would bother re-entering it after another editor deleted it. cheers, --Michael Johnson 22:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Jackp & socks

Woo-Hoo! JPD (talk) 13:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Previewing <ref>

Hi Merbabu, I saw my watchlist that you have difficulties with <ref> command. You can preview it of course by adding <references/> at the end of the edit box. Then with the Show Preview button you can see it directly at the bottom. But don't forget to remove it again, before you click Save Page.

One more thing about citation. I saw a reference saying in a certain source cited in another source. I think it is not good. Probably it's better to directly cite to the original source, although we read it from another source, because in terms of verifiability, the source is at the original.

I will help also to standardize citation template. It seems now the article is unreadable when you want to edit it. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 10:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

What I meant is to temporarily add <references/> while editing. Thus we can preview what the references look like using the Show Preview button. When we want to save it, we can just erase the <references/> back. Or maybe I misunderstood you.

Anyway, about citing in another cite, I agree. It just looks weird in the reference list. Perhaps, there is another template for cross-referencing (?)

And for standardizing citation is only to eliminate empty optional fields of the {{ cite .... }} template. So it does not use a lot of spaces. We will stil use the footnote referencing. Don't worry ;-)

— Indon (reply) — 11:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

History of Indonesia

Yes, I agree. The first paragraph that I created was a bit too much and irrelevant. So one sentence about Java Man is enough and I see it better now. I still have small objections with crowded pictures in that section. — Indon (reply) — 11:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

(BTW, have you seen Talk:Jambi? I'm having fun with somebody there, and he keeps watching the page. ;-)) — Indon (reply) — 11:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, no need to sorry. We're collaborating here. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 11:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:D Yes, I've seen the Yogyakarta talk, it's also funny with the "limited IQ" and "permission to edit a user talkpage". Becareful not to make it personal attack. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 11:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

3RR at Schapelle Corby

I was reverting what I to be assumed to be linkspam (and other editors had done so previously). Also note my last edit was to remove an unencyclopedic section in its' entirely, not a simple revert. I agree to cease reverting for now however. Thanks for the tap on thy shoulder. -- Longhair\^talk 09:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Feeeshboy on Indonesia

Thanks for the note. I appreciate your edits- I'm sure I've misinterpreted a few facts in my quest to streamline the writing and improve the flow, but I figure that anyone else could have misunderstood some of the same things I did, so your corrections have cleared those up. Some of my grammar fixes have also led to unwieldy sentences, which you reverted back to grammar I didn't like, so I was forced to come up with new ways to word them, which I hope is better in the long run (see the coastline sentence). I'm glad the orangutans took off- made for a great picture too. I haven't given much thought to etymology yet, but I agree that some of the content goes a bit beyond the scope of etymology, and is more aptly described as "History of the definition of Indonesia," which of course is a terrible title. I'll think about some more. Oh, if you want to stress the importance of Wallacea more, I was thinking of adding a sentence that mentions that the area is considered a biodiversity hotspot. What do you think? Feeeshboy 03:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

hi there

thanks for dropping me a note. Actually I already created an account, per Indon's suggestion. just in some cases I forgot to logon..;) 68.42.165.114

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.