Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia

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Source check for GA requestedEdit

I'm reviewing 3rd Congress of the Indonesian Democratic Party but know nothing of sources, would someone from this project be able to help me re the verifiable criteria? Kingsif (talk) 22:11, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

(If you could also help rewrite it in English, I'm sure the creator would appreciate it) Kingsif (talk) 22:30, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Indonesian name sortingEdit

Hello dear WikiProject members. I would like to ask for an advice regarding one topic, that's bugging my mind for some time - Indonesian names. As you know, unlike in Western culture, Indonesians don't have surnames. Some groups within Indonesian society, like Batak or Indonesian Christians use often family names as a last name. Legally however, that's just another name, and it does not automatically pass from parents to children. Vast majority of Indonesians though don't use family/last names at all. It is a complete freestyle without any legal rules or boundaries. Now, the question is how do we sort Indonesian people in categories on enwiki. You may notice that prominent figures like Joko Widodo or Sri Mulyani Indrawati are sorted correctly by their first name. Majority of biographical articles on Indonesians however use {{DEFAULTSORT}} to sort them by their last name. Naturally, non-Indonesian editors who have no clue about Indonesian names, assume automatically the last name is a surname. As a consequence, we are sometimes experiencing a chaos in our categories, where some people are sorted by their first name, whilst others by their last name.

I think we could get an inspiration from Icelandic people articles, look e.g. Gylfi Sigurdsson. Their articles use {{Icelandic name}} as a hatnote. The Iceland-related categories within the article are sorted by the first name, the "non-Iceland-related" categories sorted by the last name. I would agree with the same model for Indonesian people. We have {{Indonesian name}} as well.

What do you suggest, dear colleagues? Pinging active editors in Indonesian topics area: @JarrahTree:, @Juxlos:, @Austronesier:, @Raudalkhudri:, @Jeromi Mikhael:. Feel free to invite more people to the discussion. Thank you. - Darwinek (talk) 17:23, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

I think we should go strictly with the Indonesian legal definition of a personal name. From birth to death, the full name appears as an unbroken string in official documents (pun altert: the spaces inbetween are &nbsp-s). Any internal division would be arbitrary, even if the name reflects a naming tradition that uses a marga as final part of the name. Especially in the latter case, it is tempting to equate the last past of a name with a family name for sorting purposes. But I'd suggest to employ the Indonesian sorting system by default. Exceptions maybe could be made if the person has actively chosen to be sorted by anything other than the first part of their name, as many academics do when they quote their own publications. Pinging @Masjawad99. –Austronesier (talk) 18:41, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Agree by default that full name should be used to sort rather than using last names. I'd go as far as not having exceptions if possible. I'm pretty sure that even academics who use their last names in publications, or politicians who are often mentioned by last name in the media (Yudhoyono, Widodo, ..) are still sorted by their full names in things like official name lists, phone directory, etc. HaEr48 (talk) 19:03, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

@Austronesier:, @HaEr48: Thank you for your input. Before taking any further steps in implementing any new guidelines on Indonesian name sorting, we should definitely reach a broader consensus. Should we take this discussion to some other place?--Darwinek (talk) 22:39, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Swietenia Puspa LestariEdit

Please can someone look at the Indonesian-langauge news items found by Google, and see if they can be used on Draft:Swietenia Puspa Lestari, in order that the article can be restored? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:57, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 ChallengeEdit

Hi, we currently don't have any articles coming in regularly for Indonesia. Anybody who is actively working on articles please add them to the challenge and get that Indonesian flag up there!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:52, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

I know Juxlos regularly writes new articles about Indonesia. HaEr48 (talk) 17:58, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Dr. Blofeld and HaEr48 - should be enough Indonesia articles for a bit, yeah? Juxlos (talk) 19:52, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
@Juxlos: Amazing :) HaEr48 (talk) 20:04, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Indonesian vs Bahasa guidelineEdit

I added the preference to use "Indonesian" vs "Bahasa" in our guideline [1]. I hope this is not controversial and I think this reflects the current consensus and custom. Feel free to modify it if needed. HaEr48 (talk) 18:00, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for that edit. It is a helpful clarification for editors here, especially for potential Indonesian newcomers to our WikiProject. There are truly more bahasa in this world than Bahasa Indonesia. :) - Darwinek (talk) 22:03, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
@HaEr48: Many thanks also from me! Agree fully. This kind of usage is limited to certain circles (mostly expats and their local "entourage"), and sounds cringeworthy to many pepole. –Austronesier (talk) 09:02, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@HaEr48: Once we're at it, can you kindly also have a look at my (way too lengthy, sorry!) discussion in Talk:Ethnic groups in Indonesia#Terminology. The bottomline is: 1. Only use long-standing English names for languages and ethnic groups, and avoid neologisms like "Bataknese", Dayaknese", "Tolakinese". If there is no long-standing English name, use the Indonesian name without modification or creative anglicization. 2. Use long-standing English constituent order e.g. in "Toba Batak", "Ngaju Dayak". Can we also add this to the MoS? –Austronesier (talk) 09:24, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

AfD discussionEdit

I have proposed an AfD discussion for Criticism of Joko Widodo. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Criticism of Joko Widodo and weigh in on the discussion. Juxlos (talk) 03:08, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

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