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WikiProject Indonesia (Rated Project-class)
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translation of KPLPEdit

H guys... can you help me to translate "Kesatuan Penjagaan Laut dan Pantai Indonesia"? I don't think "Indonesian Sea and Coast Guard" is the correct/proper translation due to Indonesian Maritime Security Agency is the agency considered as Indonesian Coast Guard (see criticism subsection on Law enforcement in Indonesia#Maritime law enforcement agencies). Thx. Ckfasdf (talk) 09:07, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: In order to avoid the impression that this is the Indonesian coast guard, you could translate it literally as "Indonesian Sea and Coast Surveillance Unit", but it looks like "Indonesia(n) Sea and Coast Guard" already functions as semi-official translation here[1]. –Austronesier (talk) 11:15, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
@Austronesier: And, to make things more complicated, the other agency also have claimed itself as Official Indonesian Coast Guard. So, do we just leave it as it is? Ckfasdf (talk) 11:34, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Central CelebesEdit

From WP:MILHIST:

Would Central Celebes back in the day would of been what? Back during WW2. East Java? Adamdaley (talk) 09:50, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Part of the Dutch Great East until the Japanese invaded, wouldn't it? ...GELongstreet (talk) 12:28, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Even though it's "Great East", it still would be like Central Celebes, NEI? Adamdaley (talk) 02:14, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

@Adamdaley: The area of present-day Central Sulawesi corresponds to the afdeeling Midden-Celebes, which existed in the early 20th century and was part of the Residentie Menado in Great East. The afdeeling Midden-Celebes was divided in 1926 into two units, afdeeling Poso and afdeeling Donggala. –Austronesier (talk) 09:39, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

  • I need to know what it was during WW2. So if I can get a year range prior to WW2 like 1926-. Cause it needs to be historical as in the sense of the Japanese invading and with Z Special Unit landing intel personnel during 1942. Adamdaley (talk) 10:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@Adamdaley: There were no further changes of administrative divisions in that area until independence in 1948. –Austronesier (talk) 11:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
  • So the Central Sulawesi was not known as the greater east NEI? Cause i know it was at the time java was called java and then there was east java. Central Sulawesi was even more east to East Java. To me I'd call it Greater NEI. But i know it wasn't officially called that. I need to know it was called in WW2. am i confusing? Adamdaley (talk) 20:30, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@Adamdaley: To be exact, "Central Celebes" didn't exist in WW2. Any source that says "troops landed in Central Celebes" creates an anachronism. Afdeeling Midden-Celebes ("central Celebes", equivalent in scope to modern Central Sulawesi) was divided into afdeeling Poso and afdeeling Donggala in 1926 both of which existed until 1948. So you would have afdeeling Poso, Menado residency, Great East, NEI and afdeeling Donggala, Menado residency, Great East, NEI. Do you have exact landing points, so we can correctly locate them in one of the two afdeelingen? –Austronesier (talk) 07:42, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Austronesier - it would really help others (maybe you and and Adam have something going here that is fine) who are watching as to what you are referring to for WP:V sake - cribb's atlas (which is digital in some library systems) or Van Diessen, J. R; Ormeling, F. J. (Ferdinand Jan); Braam, R. C. M; Koninklijk Nederlands Aardrijkskundig Genootschap (2003), Grote atlas van Nederlands Oost-Indie = Comprehensive atlas of the Netherlands East Indies, Asia Maior/KNAG, ISBN 978-90-74861-20-5 or some other source ? otherwise in a sense its OR as it stands... thanks
I find my personal copy of Philip, George; Goodall, George (1940), Philips' International atlas. : Interim ed ([4th ed.] ed.), G. Philip & Son, retrieved 23 June 2020

useful for mid- war designations -

so it would be great for a RS please - so that anyone following might also be able to ascertain similar problems JarrahTree 08:09, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
@JarrahTree: I have looked up a dozen or more RS to locate what Adamdaley needs, but I have avoided the citespam until we're getting at its exact location. –Austronesier (talk) 08:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • According to the Operations of Z Special Unit (1942-1946) (page 6): The object of Lion (Operation Lion) was to establish an intelligence centre in Central CELEBES. The party left Darwin on 24 June 1942 by the prahu Somoa, intending to land near Wotoe, 60 kilometres (37 mi) west of Mailili on the Celebes where Lt. Van Hees had worked as an engineer for the Department of Public Works and where he hoped to contact one of his "mandoers" (overseers). On 11 July 1942, the party was contacted by radio, but their signals were too weak to be received. Nothing further was heard of the party after that date. This is where I am getting the Central Celebes. So basically in the map of Great East the map in the infobox was split into several points. The island I am referring to is Celebes (which was the main part) of Menado and Celebes en Onerhoorigheden would have been the part where the intel party was landed. This is the first island of many. I will continue more once we are on the same page here. Adamdaley (talk) 08:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I have come to the conclusion that it was the Celebes part of the island. Hence the "Central Celebes" it was in between the fork-like island. The map on the operations points to the central part between the fork-like islands going south. I just need to know what that is officially called and a secondary question would it be the Great East of the NEI? Adamdaley (talk) 09:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
@Adamdaley: Now I get the picture. You're right, it was in the central part of the island, but not in administrative "Central Sulawesi" or former Midden-Celebes, but rather in Celebes en Onderhoorigheden. So the location is: Wotoe (modern spelling Wotu), Onderafdeeling Malili, Afdeeling Luwu, Residentie Celebes en Onderhoorigheden, Great East, NEI. These divisions are given in the Regeerings-Almanak voor Nederlandsch-Indie, 1941 (Malili is mentioned on p. 354). "Onderafdeeling" and "Afdeeling" are roughly equivalent to "sub-district" and "district" –Austronesier (talk) 10:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Austronesier: –– What would the island be called during 1926–1948? Is there a wikipedia link for Malili? Adamdaley (talk) 22:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Austronesier: –– I have changed my footnote for Operation Lion to the following: Onderafdeeling Malili, Afdeeling Luwu, Residentie Celebes en Onderhoorigheden, Great East, NEI ..... Now I need to know what I just typed out and I'm guessing that it would Division of Malili not sure what is said after that. English translation? I would like to know what division Wotu/Wotoe would be. Would Wotu/Wotoe be the same as Malili? You'll need to sort it out perfect for me, because I am slow at getting these non-english names right and right as my footnotes. Adamdaley (talk) 07:19, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Austronesier: –– I have seriously confused myself. I changed the location, but not the footnote. I need an english translation of the following: Onderafdeeling Malili, Afdeeling Luwu, Residentie Celebes en Onderhoorigheden, Great East, NEI. We'll go from there when that is done. Adamdaley (talk) 07:19, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@Adamdaley: I think we can proceed in User talk:Adamdaley/Z Special Unit Operations. –Austronesier (talk) 07:31, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
The subpage of that link has already been made. Go through my username and look on that page for it. Adamdaley (talk) 07:35, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Discussion in Template:History of IndonesiaEdit

FYI - There is an ongoing discussion about the periodization in the template: Template talk:History of Indonesia#Periodization restructuring. –Austronesier (talk) 11:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Yogyakartan Sea Port ?Edit

I have just reverted some very laborious efforts at creating claims about a proposed sea port (? !) being developed in Yogyakarta/Bantul area.

Big problem is there is nothing in english on the web about such a proposal - I might wonder if any editors more familiar with Indonesian language media have seen anything in the subject...

It has been removed from the transport section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Region_of_Yogyakarta.

Any clues as to the veracity for WP:V would be useful. The claims being added seemed to be quite extraordinary. JarrahTree 09:18, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

My guess: Tanjung Adikarto, just east of Yogyakarta International airport. --HyperGaruda (talk) 09:59, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying that - the unsupported text in english was suggesting it {the development) was going to be the biggest best and possibly most beneficial thing ever in the history of the world... from a very brief review of links - all in Indonesian - it is all very long term dreaming so far, is that a poor review ? JarrahTree 10:11, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
That is quite an accurate review. The sea port addition was... overexaggerated, to put it mildly. --HyperGaruda (talk) 10:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
thanks for the verification... JarrahTree 11:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Random non notable village additions to the projectEdit

The subject maybe somewhere in the archives above - there is a need for the project to ascertain if every village in Indonesia is notable enough to include as inherently notable because of its existence - that leads to a rather large problem...

Any indication by fellow editors who watch here to make comment or suggestion? JarrahTree 01:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Further to this - it would appear that the defence of one line content free stubs will in all probability see the unfettered and unreasoned addition of 80,000 + stubs.

I would have thought that any sensible discussion of the inherent notability of a settlement might have been had here, for those who might have walked through some of the villages of Indonesia to realise that perhaps a slightly higher level be created for inclusion. Perhaps something like a heightened notability for regencies or villages (other than simply to be listed in articles further up the administrative heirarchy).

Something as simple as adequate WP:RS and WP:V of WP:N of a village could perhaps save an administration of 80,000 one line stubs?

Some adventurous editors in the past have created village stubs, and they are always (a) never adequately categorised (b) never expanded beyond their oneline 'they exist'

I would have thought the process should seriously consider what is said in WP:NOT. JarrahTree 01:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

We should define a cut-off point for default notability. I would propose anything from kabupaten upwards has "inherent notability". Most regency pages have lists of kecamatans, so redirect pages for kecamatans are probably also ok, provided they are listed somewhere. Below that threshold, pages should only be kept based on the criteria per WP:N. –Austronesier (talk) 08:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
The issue is complicated by the comments of supporters of the one size fits all WP:GEOLAND which gives inexperienced new editors the thrill of adding one of 80,000 + villages unhindered by intervention by discernment or common sense - or even for that matter anything to do with notability. The tragedy of the one size fits all policy is such that supporters are ever keen to emphasize that the geoland policy supports mention of a location as sufficient - and when one considers variation in settlement patterns across cultures and geography - it really beggars belief as to who set the policy in stone, and whether they had any anthropological, or cross cultural training of any sort to reach such an astonishing policy. I go no further, and leave it someone else to deal with such an absurd criterion. So many of the attempts at one size fits all ideas from the early days of wikipedia had to be undone, with difficulty to change, in the face of absurd and in some cases outright stupid attempts to tie into concepts that do not exist uniformally across the planet. Sad. JarrahTree 10:11, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
for background on how things can go - there are interesting discussions at links here - many thanks to an editor who alerted them to me:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_147#Indian_and_Pakistani_village_cleanup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_55#Indian_and_Pakistani_villages

And I am very sure, that the editors who have insisted that I was in the wrong to challenge new village articles, are in their own way totally auf fait and familiar with the existence of this project - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Villages

JarrahTree 10:26, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:GEOLAND is utterly frustrating. Especially the fact that it is supposed to override all sane interpretations of WP:N. –Austronesier (talk) 20:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Please continue discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(geographic_features)#Populated_places. We need a new notability guideline for places. –LaundryPizza03 (d) 15:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Rulers articles with family trees attachedEdit

The Yogya and Solo rulers often have extended family trees added with no sources offered - any thoughts ?

Silsilah are important for many Indonesians if they are able to claim some form of association with identified royalfamily members, however it is really WP:NOT for articles to have extended unsourced lists... JarrahTree 08:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

No proof, no inclusion? Juxlos (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
And honestly why would we include the extended tree in the first place? Juxlos (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply - regularly the hamengkubuwono and pakubuwono articles have the silsilah added with no sign of where from and no provenance... JarrahTree 10:15, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

If these things occur again, feel free to list the affected pages here so we can assist in reverting and—if nedded—discussing, or if that's too tedious (I'll expect so with mass additions), just mention the user or IP, so we can follow their trail of disruption. –Austronesier (talk) 11:45, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for that... JarrahTree 11:51, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
never ending, the latest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamengkubuwono_II - I would appreciate someone else dealing with this, as the apparent singular responder to uncited silsilah seems to be burden better shared, if you get my gist JarrahTree 04:40, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
latest - now Diponegoro... JarrahTree 08:53, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
sigh, again (the 182.... IPnumber(s) never give up - as usual HBIV the latest...

Hamengkubuwono IV - the surabaya/jakarta editor(s) seem persistent, but the problem is apparent attempt at RS - also the never ending desire for family trees... JarrahTree 08:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

  • Meh, I have seen worse. While I do not agree that a list of 1st-generation children equals a family tree and there are precedents for such content, sources are still indeed needed. --HyperGaruda (talk) 05:34, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Jawa Pos vs Jawa Pos GroupEdit

Hello everyone, I notice the Jawa Pos (publication) article is located at Jawa Pos Group, which should actually be an article about the ownership company, not the publication .. does this make sense? Should the article about the publication exist simply at Jawa Pos instead, and if necessary an article about the ownership corporation at that other article?--Dan Carkner (talk) 16:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I can see that the same thing was done with Bali Post and Bali Post Media Group.--Dan Carkner (talk) 16:34, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
@Dan Carkner: Agree about Jawa Pos Group, that page is 100% about the publication, so the title should be moved. But I cannot see the same issue with Bali Post Media Group. –Austronesier (talk) 15:24, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

List of city nicknames in IndonesiaEdit

Para editor yth, does anyone see the potential to salvage that page with reliable sources before I will PROD it? –Austronesier (talk) 15:18, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

More likely we have to delete it ASAP before it becomes circular referencing considering the typical Indonesian pop journalist. Juxlos (talk) 16:04, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Austronesier: 20 can be found here, many others can be referenced to the KBBI (the official dictionary). For example, if you look up Bogor in KBBI [2], it says there it is known as "Kota Hujan". I'd suggest overhauling it rather than PROD-ding it, maybe just start with the 20 linked above. (Obviously searching the KBBI for all possible nicknames will be too much work). These are real things, and have encyclopedic values. As with city nicknames in other countries, they often show up in pop culture, newspaper articles, and sometimes day to day conversation. HaEr48 (talk)
@HaEr48: That's certainly a good source, "Kota Melayu Deli" for Medan sounds much more familiar and notable than "Parijs van Andalusië"! Apparently all of the pseudo-Dutch stuff which makes the list to cringy (and triggered my Pavlovian PROD-reflex) can be traced to this page[3]: just try a Google search before that date for all the "van Bullshit" names, for most of them you get nil results (I did a random check). I think I'll start with throwing out this obvious hogwash, but will be less radical with the other entries...their might be babies in the bathwater. –Austronesier (talk) 19:07, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Austronesier, Yes, I agree many of those seem made up/fictional. HaEr48 (talk) 20:56, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Urgh. It's a cobbled together assortment of un-referenced parochial marketing delusions. I say kill it. Kill it with fire. Burn it to the ground. Leave it for the brochures of non-notable inns and tour companies. --Merbabu (talk) 22:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC) 
JarrahTree - your worst nightmare? --Merbabu (talk) 22:02, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Merbabu: Yeah, it's hard to avoid that knee-jerk reaction. But as HaEr48 said, some of these are common usage beyond promotional BS. They are very common in flowery style (e.g. in bad "journalism"), like when a gossip presenter calls a starlet from Makassar "gadis asal Kota Angin Mamiri". WP:V? Yes; WP:N? Dunno. In any case, I have just deleted the "van Hoax" entries, which are as genuine as the works of van Meegeren. –Austronesier (talk) 08:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
there is something about lists... a very complex issue, no simple answer... nope, the endless addition of unreferenced material to the rulers of Yogyakarta and Surakarta are serious and incessant, a single meaningless list can be edited or eliminated easily, the ever returning HB family trees from no apparent source offends me more.. JarrahTree 09:04, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
This project, because of it's place in english wikipedia, is an easy target for hoax and unbelievably very poor quality articles - the reassuring and heartening aspect is there are a few editors who see something questionable and are prepared to talk about it and deal with it... what would be the 'nightmare' if no-one turned up - to deal with the issues as identified in the archive of this talk page... it has happened more than a few times in the last 10 years + - just a warm thanks to those around at the moment... JarrahTree 09:09, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

RoosilawatyEdit

Might anyone be interested in creating a quick article on Roosilawaty? There are already articles on other Wikipedias: min:Roosilawaty and id:Roosilawaty. The reason I ask is that we have a featured picture that will have to be delisted unless an article is created! See Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/Chitra Dewi. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:14, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

@J Milburn: but the thing is those two language version has no reference. How long is it until the decision for delisting is made? HaEr48 (talk) 14:09, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
very few references...

Star Weekly: 6 December 1958, PT. Trade & Printing Press "Keng Po", 1958, retrieved 15 August 2020 - 5 of those on Trove - and good news is the run is online at monash - https://repository.monash.edu/items/show/88726#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0 - for anyone interested... JarrahTree 15:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

My gut feeling says that much of the information in the Indonesian page comes (or was copied) from the external link (Profil di jibis.pnri.go.id) which is not accessible. Other reliable information seems hard to get[4]. Which brings up another question: WP:N? –Austronesier (talk) 14:37, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Speaking of finding sources, how certain are we about the spelling of her name? This movie poster uses "Roosilawati", while this Dutch 1957 newspaper snippet says "Rosilawati" (first paragraph in the second column below Sayonara Night op Damesbeurs). Perhaps a good idea to try multiple variations when searching? --HyperGaruda (talk) 05:43, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Aceh - an "Islamic state"?Edit

I just noticed this edit (marked as minor) whereby the infobox now notes Aceh as an Islamic state.

What are the board's thoughts on that one? Does the implementation of Sharia Law thereby make a state an Islamic state? (Like many things in infoboxes) there is nothing in the main article along these lines.

Looking to get the board's opinion here on at the article talk page. --Merbabu (talk) 04:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@Merbabu: I wrote a bit about the actual extent of "sharia" in Aceh: Islamic criminal law in Aceh (which is now GA-class). Aceh is in no way its own state, while it has some autonomy it is still largely within NKRI (the Indonesian unitary state) and follow the Indonesian constitution. Also, when the media (both Western and local) says that Aceh implements the "sharia law" it doesn't actually mean Aceh discards all Indonesian laws and replace it with some form of the sharia. What it actually means is just that it has several perda that has some provisions of sharia-inspired criminal punishment. Some marriage and inheritance laws are based on the Islamic law (as in other parts of Indonesia). But other than the few enumerated criminal punishment, by and large Aceh still applies the Indonesian criminal code (Dutch-based) as well as Indonesian laws and consitution in other matters. For example, it has a governor and local parliaments like in the other provinces, and they are elected more or less like in the other provinces (with some exceptions) . HaEr48 (talk) 04:44, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Islamic or not, it is not a 'state', it is formally a 'province'. Juxlos (talk) 07:51, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

BersiapEdit

Calling for a broader set of eyes on this one...as is the wikipedia way. The article was moved to "Bersiap killings" without discussion. The intent seems to have been to change the focus from a "phase" known as Bersiap to a focus on killings by Indonesian republicans. A lot of sourced-material has been removed without explaination. I am in the process of restoring it if it seems decent material. We can remove if good explanation is found. There is also new material added which I haven't yet got to look at closely.

I also reverted the unilateral page move from "Bersiap" to "Bersiap killings".

Would be good to have more eyes and input on the issue. --Merbabu (talk) 23:29, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I've looked further into it - perhaps i should just call a spade a spade...User:BabiBandung is in the process of changing the article focus from about te early stages of the Indonesian revolution to one about "Indonesian natives horribly raping and murdering (tens) of thousands of Eurasians because of their ethnicity". While any article can be improved, this change strikes me has non-neutral and POV-pushing.--Merbabu (talk) 23:55, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
This is not good--seems quite biased. I've been taking a bit of a break from writing Indonesian history articles while the weather is still nice here where I live but feel free to tag me if you need help beefing up neutral historical citations in a case like this. Dan Carkner (talk) 01:16, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Lists of notable peopleEdit

Hi there - i stumbled across this list of notable people within an article. My first thought is that articles shouldn't contain such lists. They can stand alone. I don't think the majority of these people are that important to the city. Can i suggest in these cases that a stand alone list article is created, with a See Also link created in the city article? Other thoughts? --Merbabu (talk) 01:25, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!Edit

Hello,
Please note that Asian art, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
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Women in Red Asian women contestEdit

From 1 October to 31 December, Women in Red is running a virtual contest on Asian women. In November, this will coincide with Wikipedia Asian Month. We look forward to strong participation from all those interested in improving coverage of Indonesian women.--Ipigott (talk) 16:15, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Anonymous IP addresses editing names Chinese Indonesian biographiesEdit

Hello, some of you may have noticed but someone operating behind anonymous accounts has been editing some biographical articles about Chinese Indonesian historical figures to change their name from the historical, Dutch influenced spelling to something a bit more like pinyin--so from Tan Boen Soan to Chen Wenxuan and so on. I noticed someone was reverting some of them and I reverted a few more. I'm not saying the pinyin shouldn't be in the article but it should not be listed at the top of the infobox as the only name,etc. --Dan Carkner (talk) 22:30, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Pinyin (=romanised Mandarin from northern China) is usually not relevant to Chinese Indonesian culture. Generally speaking and if needed at all, such transliterations should follow Pe̍h-ōe-jī (=romanised Hokkien from southeast China) instead, because that is where most of the Chinese linguistic influence comes from. --HyperGaruda (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
I think that makes sense. One never encounters the Pinyin name in historical documents about such figures as being written about in this biographies. First and foremost the Dutch-influenced spelling that was their legal name, then in Chinese characters, and also possibly the Indonsianized name post-1950s. Anything else is probably superfluous in a short biography.Dan Carkner (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Label all New Order ministers and governors as Golkar in the party column?Edit

From Halawa, Ohiao (1999). Profil 48 Ketua Umum Parpol RI [Profile of the 48 Chairpersons of the Political Parties in Indonesia] (in Indonesian). Jakarta: NIAS and Kreasi Karya Wiguna. p. 54.

"Two, during its regime, [Golkar] has made all governmental institutions as its tool. The President is the Chairman of the Advisory Council [of Golkar]. Ministers, Armed Forces Commanders, and heads of state institution became the members of the Advisory Council [of Golkar].

Kedua, selama menguasai pemerintahan, secara jelas telah menjadikan lembaga kekuasaan negara sebagai perangkat organisasi Golkar. Presiden adalah Ketua Dewan Pembina. Menteri, Panglima ABRI, dan pimpinan lembaga pemerintahan menjadi anggota Dewan Pembina."

About regional head as Golkar member: [5] Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 01:59, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
My instinct is to not round up being forced to advise the party to being a party member. But yeah clearly there is an affiliation there. --Dan Carkner (talk) 20:13, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Lets create an article for the Law of Job Creation/Omnibus Law ASAP and insert into In The News in the mainpageEdit

Pinging @Juxlos, Davidelit, SiberianCat, Nyanardsan, Gerald Waldo Luis, and CakalangSantan: for assistance, opinions, and references about this. This might be the community's first attempt at creating such article. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 13:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

One thing to suggest, another to actually offer some links to the issue... also the process of going through 'in the news' requires a process JarrahTree 13:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, the thing is to create the article ASAP so it won't be basi.Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 13:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I expect we'd need to get it done in 2-3 days for ITN - and even then the scale of the protests seem muted thanks to covid so I kind of doubt it can pass ITN. Juxlos (talk) 13:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Juxlos, Nyanardsan has created this sometime ago. I think the main goal is to create the law. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 13:55, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Said thing would definitely need quite a bit of copyediting or else the ITN people will eat you alive. Regardless I don't expect to be editing much in the next week or so due to pure laziness. Juxlos (talk) 13:58, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Well then, have a nice week! I'll create the draft for the law article. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 14:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Having been in ITNC discussions and seeing the arguments that come up, I doubt that folks over there will accept a piece of legislation as an ITN entry, even if the quality is perfect, unless somehow it or the protests dominate the international news, which seem unlikely given all the international events right now. I think the better route would be WP:DYK. DYK does not have any additional notability criteria apart from notability needed for the article to be created. Probably the only thing to be watched is to copyedit it, and make sure it is ready and nominated within 7 days of article creation. HaEr48 (talk) 14:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, if the law practically makes all workers in the country as contract workers? How important is that? There won't be a single permanent worker anymore.... Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 14:56, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
The law doesn't even do that. It loosens requirements for contract workers. There's no chance this will pass in ITN and frankly if you nominate it I will come over and oppose. Juxlos (talk) 15:01, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, my house is located near a workers' rights organization and there has been a significant activity there....I'll ask them when they'll move. As soon as they're moving I'll nominate that. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 15:37, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Interesting. I'll look for references, will come back when got some. GeraldWL 15:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC) Update: it's national. Protests are enraging in Bandung, Jakarta, Sukabumi, plans for national strike, preparations for student strikes, Tangerang Regent is surrounded. The fact that the enactment of this law lies on a single person is what makes it interesting. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 17:24, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I think i've created article about the protest itself, but its still need much more improvement.Maybe instead of creating new article for the bill itself, we put information about the bill in protest article?Indonesia omnibus bill protests Nyanardsan (talk) 03:37, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

It's a gargantuan bit of legislation, which in its draft form had created headaches for law firms and journalists seeking to summarize its provisions. While some of the contentious articles were dropped for it to be passed by the DPR, the environmental impact deregulation and labor law revisions - and the ongoing protests and battles of the buzzers - will keep it in the news for a while. I have no interest in getting pages on ITN or DYK, but could try making a "brief" page about UU Cipta Kerja this week/end.SiberianCat (talk) 18:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Well then. It seems that many people are interested in creating the page but not for the ITN. Guess I'll handle it myself then. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 02:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

The article was created at Omnibus Law on Job Creation. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Ongoing DiscussionEdit

There is a discussion about Omnibus Law Protests at ITN. Feel free to express your opinion. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 11:54, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

National Hero Backlog driveEdit

I'm inspired by the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GAN Backlog Drives from the guys at the Good Articles WikiProject, and saw the opportunity of importing this thing into WP:Indonesia for National Hero topics. Since the government inevitably adds two up to eight national heroes each year (1965 is an exception), I'd suggest that we held a backlog drive for adding materials into the National Hero articles before it gets too cluttered with stubs. The main goal would to simply improve the article from a stub or start to C/B/GA/A/FA. National Hero day is getting closer at 10 November, and the duration of the backlog drive would be from a week before the day (3 November) and a week after the day (17 November). If the people here in WP:Indonesia agree then I'll start to make the corresponding subpage. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 07:01, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm willing to fill out some articles from such a list, of people from the Dutch East Indies era, would that be the kind of people who would be listed as stubs? Or are we talking about more recent ones only? I can work on those too, just my research techniques are better for info about older ones. --Dan Carkner (talk) 15:44, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
@Dan Carkner: There are still four redlinks: Abdul Halim Majalengka, Djamin Ginting, Bagoes Hadikoesoemo, and I Gusti Ngurah Made Agung. The stubs are listed here using PetScan. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Will add those to my to-do list, thanks. --Dan Carkner (talk) 16:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Have done Marthen Indey and Abdul Halim Majalengka. Both articles could use more work but at least they contain basic biographical facts and some references now. I can see that the list of extremely basic stubs is quite long but I'll try to get through at least some of them as I have time and energy to do so.--Dan Carkner (talk) 21:40, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Almost half of the National Hero articles are either stubs or starts. We should begin to work on them. Asking @Juxlos, Davidelit, SiberianCat, Nyanardsan, Gerald Waldo Luis, CakalangSantan, and HaEr48: for assistance, opinions, and references about this.This is my default user list btwRegards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 05:13, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
I find the type of Indonesian-language, mass market National Hero fact books to be kind of on the fence in terms of reputable sources, I think they are OK to use here but it does feel kind of arbitrary to cite one or another when they all often have the same 1-2 page biography giving the same facts. In terms of some "National Heroes" this is the only printed source that really talks about them unfortunately, whereas others are attested a lot more in other literature. Perhaps Delpher will have more contemporary news coverage of some of them if they were well knowing during the Dutch era. But being stuck during COVID era without being able to access libraries and things like that, it does make it a bit harder to find good quality citations for some of these figures, in my opinion. Dan Carkner (talk) 21:47, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
@Dan Carkner: Fear no more about that source. The ministry has digitized it all. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 00:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
@Jeromi Mikhael: thanks, will try that next time! Dan Carkner (talk) 05:35, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Deputy or viceEdit

When should we use deputy and when should we use vice for the translation of "wakil"? This thing has caught me since the Deputy Governor of Jakarta.Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 13:49, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

But Deputy Governor of Jakarta and Vice Governor of Jakarta appear to be different positions. So if deputi=deputy, then wakil=vice? --HyperGaruda (talk) 18:21, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
President and Vice President. Then, the more common convention when writing in English about Indonesian (and non-Indonesian) office-holders and dignitaries, is to use "deputy" for mayor and governor and corporate positions. That's the general style preference of The Jakarta Post, Jakarta Globe and Tempo English, although consistency is never their strongest suit. Antara English prefers "vice governor" and "deputy mayor". As HyperGaruda says, Jakarta has a vice governor, who serves as the governor's wakil, and since about 2009 there have been four separate deputies (each handling distinct duties). So perhaps best to use "deputy" for wakil, except when talking about the wakil presiden or a wakil gubernor Jakarta who has distinct deputies plus a vice governor. And of course use "vice" if that's what any corporate or political figure has on their official website, reports or name-card. SiberianCat (talk) 09:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

You guys might want to see this.Edit

Talk:Main_Page#Day-after-tomorrow's_OTD, number 1. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 10:14, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Update to peer review pageEdit

Hi all, I've boldly updated your project's peer review page (Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Peer review) by updating the instructions and archiving old reviews.

The new instructions use Wikipedia's general peer review process (WP:PR) to list peer reviews. Your project's reviews are still able to be listed on your local page too.

The benefits of this change is that review requests will get seen by a wider audience and are likely to be attended to in a more timely way (many WikiProject peer reviews remain unanswered after years). The Wikipedia peer review process is also more maintained than most WikiProjects, and this may help save time for your active members.

I've done this boldly as it seems your peer review page is pretty inactive and I am working through around 90 such similar peer review pages. Please feel free to discuss below - please ping me ({{u|Tom (LT)}}) in your response.

Cheers and hope you are well, Tom (LT) (talk) 00:08, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Commons image needs to be moved to Indonesian WikipediaEdit

File:Semen Padang Hospital.png looks to be above the "threshold of originality" and therefore not public domain, at least not in the USA. It is small and only used in id:Semen Padang Hospital. I recommend transwiki-ing it.

If the hospital is notable by English Wikipedia standards, consider translating the page into English. Yes, that will mean a second copy of the logo will have to be uploaded here if it will be used in the English version. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 🎄 17:14, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I have seen more elaborate logos than that, yet still falling below the threshold of originality. To me, this is a case of simple geometric shapes, to which commons:Template:PD-textlogo applies. That said, the current CC-BY-SA license given on Commons seems to be bogus. --HyperGaruda (talk) 07:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Tendentious editing?Edit

Hi all, can you have a look at this edit[6]? To me, this looks like a personal opinion plus partisan soapboxing garnished by respectable sources which either do not support the statement, or only reflect opinions by political groups which are covered in the source (CNN), but here added in wikivoice. –Austronesier (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Javanese contact with AustraliaEdit

WP:OR, WP:FRINGE, and in any case not notable enough to warrant an article. No serious academics talk about a distinct, regular Javanese contact separate from the Macassan or European contact. Someone proposed on the talk page that it should be redirected to the Macassan contact article. Or should it be deleted completely? Masjawad99💬 06:48, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/March of the Indonesian National Armed ForcesEdit

Jerome (who is this Did You Know nomination's nominator) is not currently active and the reviewer is asking if another editor could adopt it in his stead and address issues. In particular, the reviewer is asking for someone who knows Indonesian to help expand the article and perhaps look for more sources. Would anyone be willing to help out? Courtesy ping to HyperGaruda who appears to be the most active editor here apart from Jerome. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:19, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Return to the project page "WikiProject Indonesia".