Talk:Twelve Bens

Na Beanna Beola

Per edit summaries, Na Beanna Beola is the Irish Translation of the Twleve Bens, but is not a WP:COMMONNAME of the range (I have never seen the expression used). The reference provided to the "Loganim Database" is just the Irish translation, it does not imply it is a WP:COMMONNAME of the range. There are lots of mountains in the British Isles with Irish/Gaelic/Welsh translations but which are not WP:COMMONNAMES, and are thus not bolded in the lede. You need to find a proper reference that says it is an alternative name for the range, or else stop trying to represent it as such in the article. 78.18.241.130 (talk) 13:25, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Here is Carrauntoohil, the tallest mountain in Ireland, whose Irish name is Corrán Tuathail (which, like this article, is noted in brackets as a translation; and is also in the "Loganim Database"); however, it is not represented in bold in the lede, as it is not a WP:COMMONNAME of the mountain. 78.18.241.130 (talk) 13:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

This was all explained the last time you tried to remove it. The Placenames Database of Ireland is a "proper reference" - it's the most reliable source for Irish placenames. It gives the official English name of the mountains as "The Twelve Pins" or "Benna Beola", and the official Irish name as na Beanna Beola. The English names were bolded, the Irish spelling was not. That's how we do it on the articles of every place in Ireland.
Also, WP:COMMONNAME only applies to article titles. ~Asarlaí 13:41, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Please no personal attacks, you seem to have a tendency to OWNERSHIP. This is the first time you engaged in this Talk Page (to my knowledge), and your assertions (per your edit summaries) are clearly wrong (i.e. why if you tried to do the same thing on the Carrauntoohil page, even though it is also in the Placenames Database of Ireland as Corrán Tuathail, you would also be reverted). If you cannot find a reference stating that it is a COMMONNAME, then you are advised not to edit war over this. 78.18.241.130 (talk) 14:07, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Please read my reply again, very carefully. ~Asarlaí 14:23, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Trying to intimidate an editor is not a good strategy for a discussion. I have given you an identical example with Carrauntoohil, which is a page that is more heavily patrolled than Twelve Bens. And you have not responded to it, or any statement I have made, because you know that if you went to Carrauntoohil which such an argument, you would be reverted almost immediately by one of several editors (unless you provided a proper reference to show is was a COMMONNAME). 78.18.241.130 (talk) 14:38, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

You haven't properly read what I wrote. This clearly says:
Beanna Beola (Irish)
The Twelve Pins or Benna Beola (English)
Benna Beola - local name (English).

So, in this article, the English/anglicized names are bolded, and the Irish name is in brackets in italics.

Just like at Carrauntoohil, the English/anglicized names are bolded, and the Irish name is in brackets in italics.

Can you not see that (na) Beanna Beola (Irish) and Benna Beola (anglicized) are spelt differently?

As I already said, WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply here because this isn't about the article title. ~Asarlaí 14:47, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

That is not correct. Only WP:COMMONNAMES get bolded in the lede. The lede already has its Irish translation, but that is not a COMMONNAME. This concept that anglicised names get bolded is your own invention. Only if they are COMMONNAMES do they get bolded in a lede. Beanna Beloa is not a COMMONNAME for this range. 78.18.241.130 (talk) 14:54, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

It sounds like you just don't want any kind of Irish highlighted. Please show me the Wikipedia policy that says "only WP:COMMONNAMES get bolded in the lede". I've shown you that Beanna Beola (Irish) and Benna Beola (anglicized) are officially-recognized names for the mountains. Please show me evidence that they are not common names. I find that very unlikely, given that the Placenames Database says they are, and the mountains are in an Irish-speaking region. If you can't show me actual evidence, you'll be reverted. ~Asarlaí 15:05, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

There are lots of Irish (and Scots and Welsh) mountain articles where the Irish/Gaelic/Welsh name is demonstrated as one (or in some cases, the only one) of the WP:COMMONNAMES, and they appear as bold in the lede. However, where such a translation is not a WP:COMMONNAME, it is unbolded and placed in the "(translation)" brackets. Per Carrauntoohil (or any other major British Isles mountain article), you will find this. This is not specific to this genre/class of articles, but it is what WP:COMMONNANE is. There is no exception for translated names (unless they are WP:COMMONNAMES). I am sorry to be a pain about this, but that is how it works. You could go to the TP of the Carrauntoohil article and ask them about it - I'm sure you would get a response in a reasonable time? 78.18.241.130 (talk) 15:13, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I've told you a few times that WP:COMMONNAME only deals with what an article should be called, not what should be bolded in the lead. In articles about places in Ireland, it's standard to have the English/anglicized names in bold, and the Irish name unbolded in italics in brackets.
That's actually how it's done on Carrauntoohil: "Carrauntoohil or Carrauntoohill (Irish: Corrán Tuathail)". You can see that both of the English/anglicized names are bolded, the main one and the alternative one.
Likewise, Twelve Bens began like this: "The Twelve Bens or Twelve Pins, also called the Benna Beola (Irish: Na Beanna Beola)". In this case there are three English/anglicized names, so the three of them were bolded. But you keep deleting the third anglicized name, even tho' it's an officially-recognized alternative name. ~Asarlaí 15:36, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

You are confusing a database entry that says the dropping of "Na" is a new "anglicized version" of a name (when is it clearly not), and when no sources refer to the range as "the Beanna Beloa". You can go through MOS:BOLDALTNAMES, which will link to WP:PLACE, which will explain that to list alternative names in bold in the lede you need to establish that they are in-use (i.e. COMMONNAMES). Otherwise, translations, are left in brackets. "Beanna Beloa" is not a name in use, and an assertion that it belongs to a special class of "anglicised names" would not alter that? 78.18.241.130 (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

"no sources refer to the range as 'the Beanna Beloa'"
"Beanna Beloa" is not a name in use"
Your spelling is all over the place. I can't tell if you're talking about the anglicized 'Benna Beola' or the Irish 'na Beanna Beola'. Either way, yet again, here the Placenames Database of Ireland shows that both are officially-recognized names.

"to list alternative names in bold in the lede you need to establish that they are in-use (i.e. COMMONNAMES)"
Yet again, here the Placenames Database of Ireland shows that they are officially-recognized names. And yet again, WP:COMMONNAME only deals with what an article should be called. ~Asarlaí 20:55, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Per maps produced by Ordnance Survey Ireland "Benna Beola" is an alternative English language name for the mountains. See here Cashew.wheel (talk) 21:55, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Anon IP, please stop your edit-warring. Asarlaí is correct on all counts. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:06, 16 October 2022 (UTC)