Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mountains

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Mountains
Silvretta panorama from the Ochsenkopf

Griffith Peak in Southern NevadaEdit

This peak does not appear on this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_peaks_of_Nevada At 11,060 feet, I think it should. I just don't edit pages hardly at all, and it redirected here to discuss first. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.173.36.61 (talk) 03:57, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  • The "List of" pages are manually maintained so if a page exists for any mountain in Nevada, having it added to the List page is warranted, someone just needs to do it. RedWolf (talk) 17:41, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Digging deeper into this I can see that the Nevada list page currently redirects to the US list. There is a List of mountain peaks of Nevada but this page is only listing mountain peaks that satisfy specific criteria (e.g. topo prominence > 500 m or most isolated) that Griffith Peak does not meet. The solution here is to remove the Nevada list page redirect and make it the page that simply lists all of the mountains in Nevada (either by county or just alphabetical). RedWolf (talk) 20:55, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Peakfinder site changes in 2019Edit

As noted on Peakfinder's main page, the site is undergoing an extensive update. The existing template {{cite peakfinder}} no longer works correctly and displays a PHP "NotFoundHttpException" error. It appears they have decided to go with an ID based system and the site is divided into peaks, passes, ranges and people areas denoted by the subject being part of the URL. So for example:

There's a number of ways we could code the template parameters to fit the new design. A couple off the top:

  1. Specify separate parameters for the subject and ID. For example, "subject=peaks" and "id=1393" or "subject=passes" and "id=53".
  2. Specify one parameter for the subject and ID. For example, "peak-id=1393" or "pass-id=53" or "range-id=1" or "people-id=2".

I'd probably vote #2 as it probably would be less prone to user error but feel free to suggest other alternatives. RedWolf (talk) 03:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

I think #2 is ok, although I note that the vast majority of uses of {{cite peakbagger}} are for peaks. Should we just use id=XXXX and assume subject=peaks unless it's overridden? —hike395 (talk) 04:08, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that makes sense. I would also like to make access-date interchangeable with accessdate for consistency with {{cite web}}. RedWolf (talk) 16:28, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

I've made a first cut at the revised template {{Cite peakfinder/sandbox}} with updated test cases at {{Cite peakfinder/testcases}}.

  • The one tricky part has to do with the unnamed parameters and a desire to make the template more consistent with {{cite bivouac}} and {{cite peakbagger}} which already have "id" parameters although peakbagger doesn't support unnamed parameters. Inserting the "id" as the first unnamed parameter will mean that existing uses will put the access-date instead of the name as the subject of the generated URL. A check on the template transclusion count for {{cite peakfinder}} shows just 202 uses but that doesn't break it down into using named vs unnamed parameters. Nevertheless, since we will have to visit all the uses in order to add the id either as unnamed or named, making "id" consistent is some minor one-time conversion pain.
  • I'm not too fond of passing the subject parameter which directly builds the URL. I would rather make it more fixed values that could be verified and then massaged to the correct current values. So for example, instead of setting "subject=passes" instead the caller would use "subject=pass" and the template could verify the value and then map it to "passes" when it builds the URL. In that way, if peakfinder decides to change this part of the URL, we simply need to change the template and not all the uses of it. However, I am not a fan of the existing template syntax (non-LUA) for doing logic decisions, so if we want to do this, someone else will have to dive in on adding that.
  • Finally, I added an "access-date" synonym for "accessdate" as I noted in my first post. RedWolf (talk) 01:53, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I will copy the sandbox changes to the live template sometime later this week unless there are issues identified with the sandbox changes I have made. Thanks. RedWolf (talk) 17:57, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Sandbox copied to live template. RedWolf (talk) 03:22, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Listing Mount King GeorgeEdit

"List of the highest major summits of Canada" should include Mount King George (British Columbia) as it should fit in right below Mount Joffre. Edit page requests that changes be discussed here. Ron Clausen (talk) 04:35, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

  • The list has the specific criterion that the summit must have at least 500 m of topographical prominence. Mount King George (British Columbia) has 1329 m of prominence so it fits the criterion. I concur that it should be added to the list. RedWolf (talk) 21:03, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

CGNDB name searches brokenEdit

As of a week ago whenever I try to search by name, it never finds anything. I've tried in FF and Safari with the same results. Existing links in articles still work though. Anyone else have this problem or just me? RedWolf (talk) 17:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh wait, the article links are broken as well now. I think they were still working last week. The modification dates on the search pages are still from 2016 and I don't see any news items about changes. RedWolf (talk) 19:43, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
@RedWolf: Indeed, gc.ca seems to have substantially changed. One possible fix for {{cite cgndb}} is to link to geogratis.gc.ca --- for example, Back River (Nunavut) should maybe link to [1]. But it looks really ugly and is not as functional as it used to be. Should we wait for things to get better, or should we fix the broken links now? —hike395 (talk) 00:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
@Hike395: Both the name and key id searches are not working so one possibility is there is an internal error happening which simply gets mapped to a not found result. There is also a "Province/Territory" list box on the name search which is empty for me which also seems to point to an internal website issue (database errors?). The website also describes an API which might be what NRC would prefer external sites to be using. However, I tried the API a few times and while it seems to work, the output is pretty dismal and I did not hit upon how to get the topo map graphic you get when you use the name/key searches. I'll email them and see if they are aware of the issue. For now, I would just leave the broken links be until I get a response from them. RedWolf (talk) 17:07, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
@Hike395: Ok, looks like it's fixed now. I sent an email several days ago but didn't get a response but maybe it prompted someone to take a look at it. RedWolf (talk) 18:39, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
I got an email reply on Sept 11 and they confirmed that the "CGNDB search tool was indeed off-line for a number of days. It is now operating normally." RedWolf (talk) 05:13, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Portal:MountainsEdit

Proposal to delete all portals

The discussion is at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to delete Portal space. Voceditenore (talk) 08:01, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Discussion now archived at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 162#Proposal to delete Portal space. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:38, 13 December 2019 (UTC)  

Request for input on a featured article nominationEdit

Greetings, I have nominated Coropuna for a featured article nomination. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. The instructions for the review process are here. Thanks in advance for any comments. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:41, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web toolEdit

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Category renaming discussion: Sierra Pelona Mountains -> Sierra Pelona RidgeEdit

FYI: there is a category renaming discussion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_November_1#Category:Sierra_Pelona_Mountains for renaming of Category:Sierra Pelona Mountains to Category:Sierra Pelona Ridge to match the name which is actually supported by its USGS GNIS source. The category's main article was already renamed for the same correction to align with the name supported by its source. Ikluft (talk) 19:33, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

  • As obvious as it sounds that it should use the name supported by its source, the renaming will only happen if at least a few shows of support are added to the CfD discussion. This is not expected to be controversial but still needs to meet the minimum bar of having had a discussion. Ikluft (talk) 20:01, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

  Done Nick Moyes (talk) 22:39, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

New bot to remove completed infobox requestsEdit

Hello! I have recently created a bot to remove completed infobox requests and am sending this message to WikiProject Mountains since the project currently has a backlogged infobox request category. Details about the task can be found at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/PearBOT 2, but in short it removes all infobox requests from articles with an infobox, once a week. To sign up, reply with {{ping|Trialpears}} and tell me if any special considerations are required for the Wikiproject. For example: if only a specific infobox should be detected, such as {{infobox journal}} for WikiProject Academic Journals; or if an irregularly named infobox such as {{starbox begin}} should be detected. Feel free to ask if you have any questions!

Sent on behalf of Trialpears (talk) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:34, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears: Please add this project's infobox requests to your bot. Thanks. RedWolf (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

  Done should run weekly on Sundays. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 20:26, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Mount Lyell - Feedback requested on the text-over-image photoEdit

 
The Lyells identified
 
The Lyells Identified By 'L-Number'

Last month, over at the Teahouse, there was an interesting discussion about Mount Lyell (Canada) and the use of mountain images containing text, and which then expanded into other aspects of mountain articles. I am pasting the discussion in here, as I feel it might be of interest to Project members, who might wish to add their own thoughts. Feel free to add any observations below.
(Attribution of text is to to various editors at the Teahouse.) Nick Moyes (talk) 21:18, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm adding the new, updated version of the text-over-image photo at right (lower), as I tried to correct some of the deficiencies raised by Nick and others, as well as better identifying the individual subpeaks by the 'L-number' which was the sole identifier from 1858-1972 and is still used in most references (in addition to their 1972 name). The initial problem I was trying to solve with this image was that Walter Peak (L4) was defined on WP as a mountain when pretty well all references to it (plus the UIAA definition) referred to it as a 'subpeak', in fact the 4th highest of 5 subpeaks on Mount Lyell (Canada). They're sometimes referred to as 'summits' and 'peaks' as well, but to my knowledge never as 'mountains', except here on WP and then only for L4 (Walter Peak). And Google Earth has L4 as a major mountain with a major mountain photo which is NOT L4 (they now have 2 photos up), while parent Mt. Lyell isn't even on Google Earth (except as a Search term which points incorrectly to L4). The peaks were named North-to-South but it's difficult to tell which way North is in a photo and L1 to L3 run much more closely to East/West. BrettA343 (talk) 22:51, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Extended content

Can someone with more experience provide Feedback on the text-over-image photo at top left of Mount Lyell (Canada) and its use in 3 other pages, like at the bottom of Walter Peak (Canada). There's confusion over Walter Peak especially - Google Earth has it as a major peak (it's on their site even if you go up 200 Kms) while the much larger and somewhat higher Mount Lyell isn't even noted (a search actually points to Walter Peak). I'm asking because it's my first attempt at something that isn't straight photo or straight text (I'd be willing to try again if it's deemed substandard... I'm used to Photoshop and could do a better job of it - this is done with the GIMP which is the only thing I have now). TIA. BrettA343 (talk) 01:35, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi BrettA343. I think your placement of the image in Mount Lyell (Canada) is not really a good idea per MOS:SANDWICH; so, perhaps it would be better to move it somewhere else. However, that's not the only thing I noticed. The file also seems to be basically the same the main infobox image; so, I'm not sure how relevant it is encyclopedically to the reader. One thing to remember about Wikipedia is that it's read by all kinds of people from all over the world, including those whose might be using devices other than computers or might even be visually impaired in some way. This is one reason why there are things like MOS:ACCIM and WP:TEXTASIMAGES. There seems to be information about the different peaks in the article which is supported by citations to sources; so, I'm not sure why another image is need for that. Moreover, your image could be considered to be a sort of image original research since there's nothing to verify your addition of the text to the image. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:53, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Hmmm, Marchjuly... Let me take this one at a time, because your response surprised me (I was only expecting problems with the quality of the image). The [[:MOS:SANDWICH}} issue says "most images" and sure enough, most are to the right. I suggest that an exception here is warranted because there's related text right next to it but someone new to this mountain will benefit from a visual clue (a pic is worth a thousand words and all that). And as I said, there's gross confusion about these peaks, partly because WP has been calling Walter Peak a 'mountain' and anyone who reads the references knows it's thought of as a mere subpeak (Mt. Lyell is the mountain, here.) And without clicking on the Info box image, it's difficult to tell whether the peaks are 1 through 5, r-l of l-r as they are numbered N to S in actuality. Also, lots of articles have left-placed photos.
Re the MOS:ACCIM and WP:TEXTASIMAGES, I guess I see this image as an additional visual clue, to save sighted users time and ambiguity about these peaks (again, a pic is worth a thousand words). As far as original research and verifying, if you read the references closely enough, you can likely come to the same conclusion but I see this as a timesaver. Also, many books use this technique where there are multiple peaks in an image and it's difficult to describe which is which. Anyway, I just wanted to get my ideas out, but if you read this and still disagree, I'll move it or delete it - your choice (I would like to keep it for a couple of weeks until I can get Google Earth to fix their end, but I won't push). BrettA343 (talk) 04:57, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Is there any reason why the file with the additional text cannot replace the one in the main infobox? It seems to provide the same information as the one currently being used there and the captions for both files seem to be quite similar and using one image would resolve the sandwiching problem.
As for "original research", it's not really our role as Wikipedia editors to interpret reliable sources for others as explained in WP:SYN; so, if the peaks are laid out and clearly described in the cited source(s) using that particular image as you've done, then that's OK to reflect in the article and perhaps in the image; otherwise, at least in my opinion, you need to be careful here and not try to assume how other are going understand or interpret sources.
Finally, as for there being "gross confusion" about these peaks possibly due to what's written about them on Wikipedia, that's unfortunate and the Wikipedia articles should only be reflecting what reliable sources are saying about them per WP:RSCONTEXT; if reliable sources are calling them "subpeaks" then that's what the articles should reflect. At the same time, if reliable sources aren't in agreement as to whether they're "mountains" or "subpeaks", then perhaps that properly cited content about that disagreement should be added to the articles;t Wikipedia, however, shouldn't be taking sides and used (even unintentionally) in an attempt to try and resolve such problems as explained in WP:RGW. Wikipedia doesn't consider itself to be a reliable source for any purpose as explained in WP:WPNOTRS and shouldn't be written to be treated as one even though I do understand that many people out in the world often see it as one. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:26, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
One thing you might try doing (if you already haven't) is asking about this type of thing at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mountains since that's where you're liking going to find other editors who share you interest in this subject matter and have experience working with articles related to mountains, etc. It's possible that what you've done or what you're describing in your posts are things which have been tried by others or which have been discussed before. Asking for help at a relevant WikiProject can often get you more specific feedback than you'll get at the Teahouse since Teahouse hosts might not be very familiar with the subject matter. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:33, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, Marchjuly, there's a number of reasons why I wouldn't use the file with text in the infobox: 1. It doesn't take in much more than the subpeaks and a bit of the glacier while the Mt. Lyell massif is so much more. 2. I disagree that the captions are similar for the main reason that the existing infobox photo also has 5 Columbia Icefield area mountains (and I recall one moderator - or whatever you're called - saying that identification of other features was a good thing for WP). 3. As a photographer, while the zoomed in text-image serves its purpose of identifying the subpeaks, it doesn't do as well to represent 'Mt. Lyell', and it's not (subjectively to me) as pleasing a composition as the current infobox image. 4. I don't think text markup has a place in an infobox image that will pop up in all sorts of external links; i.e. for people who know the mountain, it's rather redundant to see on every mouse-over. 5. I asked a mountaineering friend whom whom I did the Lyells if he thought that image was useful to people who don't know the mountain, redundant with the text or something else, and he thought it was useful (and he's already run into the Google Earth problem re Mt. Lyell and Walter Peak). No, I'll remove the text image, but I won't use it in the infobox (but now that I've given away rights, I guess you could ;-).
I'm not sure I get what you're saying with the 'original research' issue. Most sources clearly identify all 5 and mention that they were named from N to S, but when looking at them in a photo, it's difficult to tell which is N and which is S (I just want to clear that up).
I agree it's unfortunate, but I wouldn't be surprised if Google Earth (GE) used WP as a verification (and the problem is compounded with a GE photo of some humongous mountain mountain captioned 'Walter Peak'. I've seen them called 'summits', 'peaks' and most often 'subpeaks' (always 'of Mount Lyell'), but WP is the only place I've seen or heard them called 'mountains' (and then, only Walter Peak'. So I'm not taking sides, I'm using what the sources say or imply - it's whomever updated Walter Peak who 'took sides', IMO.
OK, I'll try the mountain project, but I don't want to beat this thing to death... If I can't get it resolved soon, I'll just delete the text-photo (I might wait a week to see if GE can be brought on board to correct their images (of mine, BTW) to go with the right mountain, if that's all right (I'll write GE today). BrettA343 (talk) 21:46, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
If it makes you feel more comfortable, Marchjuly, I asked my two regular mountaineering partners the same question as noted above about the text-over-image photo being 'useful', 'redundant' or 'something else', and they were both positive about it, as well. And re joining the Mountains Project, do I just edit the members list and add my name? I did a Find on 'join' in that page and none of the 4 hits were links to join (or is Nick Moyes a better person to ask? Also, I have got a related post into Google Maps, so I hope that clears their end up (I could elaborate if you want, although I've done a bit of that above). BrettA343 (talk) 20:29, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
You asked for feedback on the image and that's all I gave as part of my being WP:HERE. You don't need to make me feel comfortable or get my OK on this; you only need to edit in accordance with relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines. If you're satisfied that you are and (more importantly) that the consensus of other members of the Wikipedia community is that you are, then that's all that matters. If anyone (myself included) disagrees with either assessment, then they can challenge it per Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. One thing I would suggest, though, is that you should be careful with trying to solicit advice from those who don't participate in Wikipedia (or those who are not really familiar with editing) when it comes to things Wikipedia. Many persons may be considered WP:EXPERTs with respect to a particular subject matter, but their opinions aren't automatically given any special weight on Wikipedia; so, trying to discuss things on Wikipedia by saying "so-and-so from outside Wikipedia said it's OK" is not typically going to carry much weight with other Wikipedians when it comes to discussing Wikipedia content; you're better off showing how something meets (or doesn't meet) Wikipedia's policies and guidelines than "outside standards".
You can freely "join" or "not join" any WikiProject you like; there is no official requirement that you have to be a member of a WikiProject to edit certain articles and there is no official form which needs to be completed if you want to join one. Some projects have a "sign up" list on their page where you can add your name if you want, but this is just a way of letting others know your interested like adding you're name to a "mailing list". Some projects have a userbox that you can add to your user page if you want, and this will add you're name to a category page where other members are listed. You don't, however, need to formally declare yourself to be a member to participate in the project or ask questions on its talk page. Some projects may have more members and may seem more organized, but all projects are basically the same: they're places where editors who share an interest in some subject matter and an interest in Wikipedia editing can discuss and exchange information as part of being WP:HERE. If you and your friends are interested in editing Wikipedia and improving its coverage about mountains, etc. then WP:MOUNTAINS is probably where you're going to find others who share both those interests.
I think this post is growing beyond the scope of what's typically discussed at the Teahouse which is why I suggested you ask for the feedback of other Wikipedians at WT:MOUNTAINS; you don't have to do that, but I'm not sure what other suggestions I can give you here. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:58, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
@BrettA34: Sorry I'm late to the party. I think Marchjuly has given you some really excellent and detailed advice (as they always do here), and there's little for me to disagree with. My take (on a quick read through of the above thread) is as follows:
  • Images with annotated details can' be very helpful, as I commented earlier. Your numbering is helpful, but not in the way you've done it, I'm afraid. See Goûter Route for a subtly-labelled imaged used on that page, or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pano_from_Aiguille_du_Midi_03.jpg for an alternative approach. Thje former is subtly labelled - your current version is not, I'm afraid.
  • Your annotated image on Mount Lyell (Canada) virtually duplicates the wider image used in the infobox. I suggest you subtly label that one and remove the close-up, labelled view on the left side of the page. It's current layout position doesn't seem to conform to how I would expect a left-justified image would normally be placed
  • The text labelling of that image is not good - especially the massive text running over the glacier which doesn't label the glacier, but labels the image. That text should go, and appear within the caption, in my view.
  • There's no need to include 'click for details' in captions. All thumbs need to be clicked for their content to be clearly seen. That can go.
  • Ensure that image filenames and descriptions are clear and easily understandable by those with no knowledge of them.
  • I would reorder the text in the article to describe the Lyell subsidiary peaks from 1 to 5, not 5 to 1.
  • There is no indication of the heights of any of the five subsidiary peaks within the Mount Lyell complex. Can you at least indicate which is the highest, please, based on reliable sources? The mountain seems rather akin to an old friend of mine, the Monte Rosa group - the second highest summit in the western Alps in Europe, where it is variously referred to as a mountain, a massif, a group of distinct mountains, or a range.
  • I have restructured the Mt Lyell article contents - could I ask you to check that I haven't introduced any accidental errors, please?
  • I see no need for three maps in the infobox - they just serve to confuse. Two should do. There is, however, a way to offer a radio button to the user to select which level of map they want to see. Offhand, I'm afraid I've forgotten how to advise you how to achieve that function. I can investigate if you need me to.
  • Walter Peak is labelled as peak 4 on the Mount Lyell (Canada) page, and on your Wikimedia Commons file, but as peak 1 in text relating to the same image used on the Walter Peak (Canada) page. But on the latter page you've compounded problems by incorrectly put the image in the 'External links' section, and the text description is really confusing to me, as, indeed, is the description you placed on Commons. Clarification of image content should always go in the caption on Wikipedia, not in the article, as well as further detail being within the Commons file description.
  • If there is genuine confusion about which peak is which, my view is not to attempt to include it. Personally, I care little about what Google maps or sister projects say about places. I use real maps and believe what the cartographers and official mapping institutions say. (you could include a footnote to highlight current confusion or published mapping errors by Google, providing you cite reliable sources to begin with)
  • The geology section of Mount Lyell states the rocks are sedimentary, without saying anything more, such as whether they're sandstones, oolite, chalk, limestone or a host of other alternatives. I'm assuming they're sandstones, but 'Precambrian to Jurassic' is a vast time period - so which period does the 'Lyell formation' belong to? (According to this, we're talking about late Cambrian carbonate rocks. Can more information be provided on this?
I hope at least some of this is of help, even if it all comes over a bit critical. These issues can all be fixed though, and should improve the articles you've been working on. My apologies for any typos in this reply - blame it on the lateness of the hour here. (I'm in UTC). Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 01:51, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Pinging BrettA343 as I mistyped your username in my reply. (Had you created a userpage for yourself, I'd probably have noticed the erroneous redlink, sorry) Nick Moyes (talk) 22:35, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Wow, Nick Moyes. There's a lot there. I'll be back at'cha ASAP, tomorrow for sure. I've been so busy mod'ing articles and adding photos and it didn't seem to be causing a problem for me. I did once Google 'Wikipedia.org create user page' but didn't get any hits I thought looked relevant (lots of hits, though). Sorry, I'll try again. BrettA343 (talk) 02:21, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Much of your critique (and your use of “you”) applies to whomever set Mt. Lyell up before as I didn’t change things like the sentence structure dealing with peaks L5 through L1 (I did put in the numbers and put them in sequence – the peaks were randomly ordered in groups of 3 and 2 before and not in the same order as the people they were named after), but assumed that whomever did it initially had a valid point in dealing with the supbpeaks on the border before the 2 only in Alberta (I’ll change it based on your complaint). I also didn’t put in the 3 map choices but disagree with you, here. Whatever map you cut out (Alberta or B.C.) will irate readers in that province I think and for the one extra line, I don’t think it’s worth it (so I won’t change that, but you can).
Re the annotated image not being subtle, that was a conscious decision so people wouldn’t have to open it to see the peak numbering. That, and the fact that unlike a route, not much information is needed for its purpose. I’ll take your advice and remove that pic but I won’t mess up my infobox pic with labelling (if I was doing a route, labelling seems appropriate). Meanwhile, I put the image sown next to the text related to it. Can I at least wait to delete this image until my Google Earth input is no longer ‘Pending’, please?
I’ve noticed that most photos (or a lot of them) from other people that I’ve seen on WP don’t have detailed descriptions, hence my ‘click for details’ (there was space for it in the caption, anyway), but I’ll avoid that in the future, on your recommendation.
Your request to at least put in the highest peak is interesting and topical because it depends on which reliable sources one cites for the highest. My 1985 copy of the Bible in this – the American Alpine Club / Alpine Club of Canada ‘Climber’s Guide to The Rocky Mountains of Canada North’ – and currently used topo maps – e.g. here: https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Mount-Lyell-Canada/photos - and the WP-used Peakfinder.com site all have:
• Edward Peak AKA L2 (3514 m), as the tallest (3 m above central Ernest Peak AKA L3 (3511 m)). WP has no article for L2 (I’m working on writing one as my first article).
But…
• WP has L3 at 3498 m (just checked in August but now it’s 3511 m, too) and Mt. Lyell at 3504 (they’re the same geographic point by different names according to most reliable sources!). None of my sources has Lyell at 3504 (except WP).
• Bivouac.com has L2 at 3595 m, but all my sources say 3514 (again, no L2 Article on WP yet).
• Bivouac.com (and WP) have L4 at 3448 m, but all my sources say 3400 or 3401.
So, the WP-used ‘reliable site’ – Bivouac.com – seems to be one source of the confusion: it has Mt. Lyell (and thus L3) at 3498 and L2 at 3595 (still a 3 m difference, but in the other direction… It looks to me like whomever updated WP last updated WP heights used the odd-man-out – Bivouac. I’ve been waiting to get the L2 article in and clear it all up (and probably asking questions), but you Nick Moyes have forced my hand to get the data earlier in response to your post. But what it also looks like is the central L3 is marked as Mt. Lyell by most sources, NOT the higher L2. The AAC/ACC book avoids putting a height for Mt. Lyell, FWIW, and instead the following page lists all 5 subpeaks and their heights. So, do I use the highest peak for your request (L2), or the central peak (L3), or use both and differentiate them in the text (my preference, but only for Mt. Lyell / L3 and L2). And I’d avoid using Bivouac.com heights for other peaks unless a call to the ACC in Banff could clear things up by say, confirming that Bivouac.com is correct.
The ‘Geography’ heading is interesting because I don’t remember one on any of the pages I’ve worked on and consistency of presentation for WP seems like a reasonable thing (and I’m not prepared to rip apart all Canadian mountain articles just to add ‘Geography’). Not only that, but IMO – and I could well be wrong, here – the geography didn’t change in 1972 when the peaks were named after early guides instead of just L1 – L5, so I think that para should be back where it was, in the intro. The same thing with the 2nd sentence pointing out use of ‘the Lyells’ as a collective name. That’d leave 2 sentences for a heading (‘Geography’) that seems not to be used much for Canadian mountains (doesn’t seem worth it from my POV). Whether that’s an ‘accidental error’ or not is up for you to decide, but I think it should be changed back (however, I’ll leave it as is now that I’ve looked up ‘Geography’ on WP ;-)).
I can’t find my use of Walter Peak as L1 (I see 'Lyell 4' and 'L4') – could you be more specific or just change it, please (it’s clearly an error). As far as the use of an image in ‘External Links’ I recognised it was incorrect, but have seen many examples of an image below the text and it doesn’t seem worth putting in a ‘Gallery’ title for one pic – what do you recommend, please?
Personally, I do care about incorrect data, and I especially care about incorrect use of my photos, no matter where either are, so in that, we just differ.
I’m doing things at WP that I can do quickly with the resources: photos and books I have, and I’m not prepared to add info right now to ‘Geology’ when someone else – perhaps a geologist – has already done it (unless it’s quick and I have the resource, like for the ‘Lyell Formation’). I’m sure I could take time to expand all manner of text, but I’m doing things other than WP as well and haven’t the time or usually the resources to expand every section on every mountain (and again, I think consistency in presentation is a good thing). Plus, I, for instance, wouldn’t have recognised the importance you place on rock composition when most of the whole mountain by the normal approach is glaciated, anyway, and I didn’t have to touch rock to summit it. If, after I get done with photos and text or layout that I find obviously problematic or wrong, I’ll consider other sections.
On another topic, thanks again, Nick, for setting up my userpage :-). I read how to do it and the do’s and don’t’s, but still wasn’t sure where it went. BrettA343 (talk) 21:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
@BrettA343: When I next get a chance to sit down at a proper pc and keyboard (rather than this miniscule phone) I'm going to paste our discussion thread over to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mountains and respond to you there. Not only might it be of interest to those Project members, but I fear the thread here at the Teahouse will get archived before I get a chance to consider my reply. I will 'ping' you from that page as soon as I can in a few days. Am rather tied up with real world affairs right now - sorry. But just to say one thing: I wasn't trying to tell you what to do; rather, was just giving my perspective on what I think is good for visitors to see in any article. To keep Wikipedia enjoyable, it's important to contribute only as much as one wants to (providing it conforms to our guidelines and style), rather than feel obligated to solve every issue that past editors should themselves have addressed. Kind regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:11, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


Notes are not ReferencesEdit

I'm concerned with {{Mountain table cell}}. This template accepts three different parameters that it converts into references. Problem is, the parameters used most often are not proper references. Instead, they're really notes. What's the best way to fix this issue? We can remove the parameters in each place the template is invoked; that removes the bogus reference, and also removes text from the article that's often superfluous. Or, should the template be modified to create notes instead of references? This would work well, but it means that any article which uses the template needs to be sure to have a {{notelist}} in it somewhere so the notes are displayed.

How did the project envision this template to be used? -- Mikeblas (talk) 23:33, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

I've coded my proposed change at Module:Sandbox/mikeblas/Mountain table cell. I think I can just plug this in, then go chase errors caused by not having a {{notelist}} template in the consuming articles. If there are no comments or objections, I'll start doing that over the next few days. -- Mikeblas (talk) 16:40, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
I've updated the Mountain table cell sandbox with my intended changes. The test cases look good (onnce I added a {{notelist}}). -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:56, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
{{Mountain table cell}} was originally designed by Buaidh in 2010 to create elevation tables as in List of Colorado fourteeners. You can see the articles where the template is used here. Frietjes ported it to Lua in 2018. I think {{notelist}} to these articles would be a good thing to do, so I support your edits. — hike395 (talk) 15:42, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
I've made the changes live. There are about three dozen pages to clean up, and I'll grind through them but help is welcome :) You can find the list of pages in the Category:Pages with missing references list. Fortunately, there are few other pages in this category, so it's really mostly fallout from my change. -- Mikeblas (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
OK, it is finished. Please LMK if any problems are found. -- Mikeblas (talk) 02:49, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

The Mountainous BarnstarEdit

 
Introducing Template:The Mountainous Barnstar. Jerm (talk) 16:44, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Maintaining duplicate lists per country and subdivisionsEdit

I have started a discussion on removing the duplicate list of Alberta mountains.

After checking the United States list which has a similar duplication for some states, I want to go further on this and perhaps establish a convention where if there is a separate list article for mountains of a province or state that the country list page link to this province/state page and any mountains listed on the country list page be removed. One might consider listing the top 3 mountains on the country page for that subdivision in addition to the link to the subdivision page. RedWolf (talk) 20:35, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

The Great Britain/Ireland DestubathonEdit

Hi. The Wikipedia:The Great Britain/Ireland Destubathon is planned for March 2020, a contest/editathon to eliminate as many stubs as possible from all 134 counties. Amazon vouchers/book prizes are planned for most articles destubbed from England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland and Northern Ireland and whoever destubs articles from the most counties out of the 134. Sign up on page if interested in participating, hope this will prove to be good fun and productive, we have over 44,000 stubs!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:32, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Opinions wanted - Revamp of Infobox mountain templateEdit

Hello. Please have a look at Template talk:Infobox mountain#Infobox cleanup (and related sections, if interested). Your feedback, and any further improvement suggestions, is essential for the next steps in upgrading this infobox. Thanks! Rehman 03:37, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

This discussion is still open. Topics include simplifying parameters and removing duplicate parameters, and adding Wikidata support. This is also a good opportunity to add or improve other features. Please consider joining this important discussion. Rehman 06:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Related WikiProject on Simple English WikipediaEdit

Hello all. You are doing great work here! I have long found the articles on mountains and other related natural features to be very helpful. Personally I edit over at the Simple English Wikipedia most of the time. I've been making mountain articles there part of my focus, since many are lacking. I recently was able to start and improve Gangkhar Puensum to be featured as DYK on the main page. Anyway I wanted to invite all of you to visit Simple and help out from time to time, if you have any spare minutes. (Of course there is plenty to do here as well, so I understand if you can't). I've created WikiProject Mountains over on simple, and wanted to leave the link to it here. Desertborn (talk) 08:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Removal of number parameter lists from Infobox MountainEdit

Fellow mountain editors: There is a discussion at Template talk:Infobox mountain to remove numbered parameters from the infobox, such as |state1=, |city1=, |region1=, |geology1=, and asking that editors use unbulletted lists, instead. If you are interested in this topic, please feel free to voice your opinion there. — hike395 (talk) 16:00, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to remove automatic metric/imperial conversion from Infobox MountainEdit

There is a proposal to remove parameters from the infobox that allow automatic conversion between metric and imperial. The proposal would remove parameters such as |elevation_m=, |prominence_ft=, and |isolation_mi=. If you'd like to join the discussion, please join in at Template talk:Infobox mountain#Automatic conversion and zoom (cont.). — hike395 (talk) 07:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Wrong identification of Gangotri GroupEdit

Hello all,
I want to bring your attention on the page Gangotri Group because peaks mentioned in this article are not at all Gangotri group of peaks, they are on the Gangotri glacier for sure. The peaks falls under Gangotri groups are in the Rudragaira valley. "It is indeed intriguing, that while the Gangotri group towers above the Rudra valley, the Gangotri glacier is almost 20 kms east of the Rudra valley. Undoubtedly, the glacier at one time had its snout to the west of the Rudra valley, which has today receded beyond imagination."[1]

The peaks mentioned in the page have no connection with Gangotri group like Chaukhamba, Kedarnath, Thalaysagar, Meru, shivling, and Bhagirathi group of peaks. They only situated around Gangotri glacier.

Gangotri group of peaks (Gangotri I, II, III) lies 20 km down the valley in Rudragaira valley.--Goutam1962 (talk) 15:02, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Merge / redirect List of mountain peaks of Washington (state) with List of mountain peaks of WashingtonEdit

Hi, WikiProject Mountains,

I found that there are 2 duplicating articles: List of mountain peaks of Washington and List of mountain peaks of Washington (state). Can someone help to do a correct merge of these two articles? It is confusing that these two articles have different criteria of topographic prominence, and different lists.

It appears that the "Washington (state)" article has older history. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 16:31, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

The List of mountain peaks of Washington has the more accurate updated elevation figures and is completely consistent with the following 19 lists:
  1. List of mountain peaks of Alaska
  2. List of mountain peaks of Arizona
  3. List of mountain peaks of California
  4. List of mountain peaks of Central America
  5. List of mountain peaks of Colorado
  6. List of mountain peaks of Greenland
  7. List of mountain peaks of Hawaii
  8. List of mountain peaks of Idaho
  9. List of mountain peaks of Mexico
  10. List of mountain peaks of Montana
  11. List of mountain peaks of Nevada
  12. List of mountain peaks of New Mexico
  13. List of mountain peaks of North America
  14. List of mountain peaks of Oregon
  15. List of mountain peaks of Utah
  16. List of mountain peaks of Wyoming
  17. List of mountain peaks of the Caribbean
  18. List of mountain peaks of the Rocky Mountains
  19. List of mountain peaks of the United States

I was unaware of the List of mountain peaks of Washington (state) when I created the List of mountain peaks of Washington. We could merge the List of mountain peaks of Washington into the List of mountain peaks of Washington (state). The List of mountain peaks of Washington and the 19 above lists use a prominence cutoff of 500 meters (1640.4 feet) rather than the 300 meters (984.3 feet) of the older list. We should probably use the greater cutoff. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk contribs 17:46, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Sure, that sounds like a good plan to me. @Buaidh: Can you work on the merge? I don't know much about prominence cutoffs, so if the 500m cutoff is more accurate, then we should use that. Natg 19 (talk) 00:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Done. I've merged the List of mountain peaks of Washington into the List of mountain peaks of Washington (state). Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk contribs 05:42, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
  1. ^ ABBEY, A (2003). "FOOTPRINTS IN THE RUDRA VALLEY : Himalayan Journal vol.59/9". www.himalayanclub.org. 59. Retrieved 5 May 2020.
  2. Return to the project page "WikiProject Mountains".