Talk:Turian (Mass Effect)

Requested move 9 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus that this is the primary topic; not moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 00:20, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

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• Turian (Mass Effect) → Turian
• Turian → Turian (disambiguation)

– Clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for this name. The others are WP:PTM (such as Mike Turian, who is not commonly known to the public on a last-name basis) and the small town in Iran hardly gets any views at all. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 10:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

• Support both merges. Shushugah (talk) 14:45, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose trivial topic failing second criteria of WP:PT "The turians are a fictional extraterrestrial humanoid species in the Mass Effect multimedia franchise developed by BioWare " Most refs in books are to the 7th Century Breton saint Turian, to Saint-Thurien (Breton: Sant-Turian). In ictu oculi (talk)

• This is clear WP:IDONTLIKEIT. There is nothing ambiguous about "Thurien" or even "Sant-Turian" compared to just "Turian"._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 19:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment Even Saint-Thurien is a WP:DISAMBIG and spelled differently from Turien in the WP:COMMONNAME format. It could even make sense to redirect Saint-Thurien to a section inside Turien, something like Turian § Saint-Thurie or Turian (disambiguation) § Saint Thurien ~ Shushugah (talk) 14:45, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment . In ictu oculi's rationale is incorrect in my opinion. The Breton saint they referred to has no standalone article in either the English or French wikipedia, in fact I cannot seem to find coverage anywhere on Wikipedia to read up about this 7th century saint, so that may be a sign for not being notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia in the first place. In ictu oculi also claimed there are book sources but did not link them in this discussion. In any event even if the notability of this saint can be proven, the accepted convention of spelling the name in both English and French is "Thurien", which is not the same as "Turian". The French Saint-Thurien communes are also spelled as such in French, and I have not yet seen any sources in both language versions of the articles to support the claim that "Turian" is widely accepted as an alternate spelling, so that could be itself be the remnant of original research by an uninvolved editor. I have not yet formed a view as to whether this article is the primary topic or if this is a WP:NOPRIMARY situation, but I certainly support the disambiguation. Haleth (talk) 15:18, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes but Bioware video game editors are not really in a position to imagine how a Bioware game article with the (Mass Effect) game name removed looks to non game players. Tell me in GBooks Bioware game references account for what % of all Turian cites in Books? The reason that the other half of WP:PT is to to prevent video game and comic terms always grabbing prime sites in the encyclopedia and making it less navigable for non- video game players. It's not as if any game player will be remotely inconvenienced by (Mass Effect) being on the article, so removing it is only to inconvenience other readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:26, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I am not supporting or opposing the proposal as such, yet, but since you are talking about Google Books search results, I'll tell you what I found. For me, the first few pages of aggregated search results turn up with mostly multiple mentions of "turian" as part of someone's full name, some results in a different language (Indonesian or Malay), some work of fiction not related to Mass Effect, with the odd entry or two relating to Mass Effect. I found that none of them mentioned the 7th century Breton saint you claimed that "Most refs in books" allude to. So, from an WP:AGF POV, I don't think you deliberately made a misleading statement, but perhaps your opinion is not in fact supported by WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and is more a case of WP:IDONTKNOWIT or WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Anyway, this is a discussion about primary topics based on a selection of available standalone articles on Wikipedia, not a meeting between Google technicians about SEO issues and what topics to prioritize in the search engine. Haleth (talk) 15:44, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Well it seemed like it was the saint from the results I got first time from a "Turian was" test, not "Turian". But running "Turian" alone as you did now it just seems like NO:PRIMARY (anyone can click and see). As above you click and you see what you get "For me, the first few pages of aggregated search results turn up with mostly multiple mentions of "turian" as part of someone's full name". Exactly. So there's NO PRIMARY here. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:09, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

• Support. As nom notes, Iranian town is an incredibly minor topic, Mike Turian is never referred to solely by his last name, and the Breton spelling of the saint is less important than the French spelling of Thurien. In ictu oculi's argument against appears to be predicated on the incorrect belief that Mass Effect is "trivial" - it's a quite significant franchise, and it isn't for Wikipedia editors to judge anyway, pageviews should control (barring evidence of manipulation). SnowFire (talk) 00:27, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. The name of the pretty significant Armenian Patriarch is often spelt "Turian", especially in older sources, and he is usually referred to just by the single name. No primary topic here. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:50, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Necrothesp: If it is "often spelled Turian" then why is that name not even mentioned in the article. It must not be that often, apparently._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 08:41, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

• • Comment. I do see some sources from Google Books not used in the article, which use the variant Turian spelling. Whether he was ever customarily referred to on an exclusively mononymous last name basis (e.g. when comparing Cleopatra to her numerous predecessors which use the same name) as opposed to "Patriarch Turian" is another matter. Haleth (talk) 12:28, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. A fictional alien species in a video game of a series that has sold many copies and received many awards will undoubtedly have a strong web presence, but a real town by the same name is at least equal in significance overall. No primary topic is the correct call. Andrewa (talk) 11:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment. There is good reason to believe that the article for the Iranian village, which is far from a major metropolitan area and does not seem to support a notion for being very notable at first glance apart from its earthquake casualties back in 2005, is in fact incorrectly named by the editor who created it. To add to the confusion, four alternate spellings for its English romanization is nominated in the same article. On Google Maps, it is marked and romanized as "Tourian", which is not mentioned in the article at all so far. Two websites which appear on the first page from Google Search results which promote tourism in the area, presumably endorsed by the Iranian government, also spell the village's name in English as "Tourian". In fact, none of the sources listed on the article itself actually support the notion that the village's correct romanized name is "Turian". Haleth (talk) 12:28, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.