Talk:To Ramona

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 15:07, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Bob Dylan recorded "To Ramona" in a single take, for an album recorded in a single three-hour session? Source: Heylin, Clinton (1995). Dylan: Behind Closed Doors – the Recording Sessions (1960–1994). pp.29-32; Margotin, Philippe; Guedson, Jean-Michel (2022). Bob Dylan All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Track p.232
  • ALT1: ... that various critics have suggested that Bob Dylan's "To Ramona" is about either Joan Baez, Suze Rotolo, or Sara Lownds? Source: Gill, Andy (1995). Bob Dylan: the Stories behind the Songs 1962-1969 pp.78-79; Trager, Oliver (2004). Keys to the Rain: the Definitive Bob Dylan Encyclopedia. pp.634-635; Williamson, Nigel (2021). Bob Dylan. pp.285-286
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/55 Water Street
  • Comment: Suggestions for ALT hooks welcome.

5x expanded by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Self-nominated at 16:56, 7 September 2022 (UTC).

Interesting song, on fine sources, no copyvio obvious. The first hooks appeals more to me than catching attention with a famous name, but being vagua, and nobody really knows. I trust that you'll fix the Observer ref. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt and BennyOnTheLoose: maybe ALT1 can be made a bit snappier?

• ALT1a: ... that the identity of the woman in Bob Dylan's "To Ramona" is unclear?

• I'm OK with that, thanks. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:07, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:To Ramona/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 08:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will crack on with this now! --K. Peake 08:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Change Columbia Recording Studios to Columbia Recording under the studios parameter in the infobox
• Pipe Tom Wilson to Tom Wilson (record producer)
• "which was released on his fourth studio album" → "first released on his fourth studio album,"
• Add a sentence with notable info about writing from the first section
• Move the recording sentence to being the one before lyrical content
• Mention next to the critics suggested part that the narrator advises Ramona not to follow others' advice
• Pipe Sara Lownds to Sara Dylan
• "for Another Side of Bob Dylan," → "for the album,"
• Remove the album release in August since that is not notable
• "have ranked the song as" → "have ranked it as"
• Pipe B-side to A-side and B-side
• "Belgium and Luxembourg in 1967, and has been" → "Belgium, and Luxembourg in 1967, and has since been"
• Mention what the several live versions include

• All done. I mentioned two of the several live versions in the lead. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Background and recording

• "The "To Ramona" lyrics were" → "The lyrics of "To Ramona" were"
• Wikilink as the May Fair Hotel instead
• Add a comma after "All I Really Want to Do"
• "On June 9 at" → "On June 9, 1964, at" per this being a new para
• Remove the comma before Another Side of Bob Dylan
• Pipe Tom Wilson to Tom Wilson (record producer), while mentioning that he was the producer of all the tracks
• "as the sixth track, the last" → "as the sixth track and the last"
• Remove the release year of "The Last Letter" from brackets when it is already mentioned in prose

• All Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Lyrical interpretation

• Maybe add relevant text to the img of Suze Rotolo?
• "The song ends with" → "It ends with"
• [8] should solely be invoked at the end of the sentence
• "argue that the song may indeed refer to Baez," → "argue that Dylan may indeed refer to her,"
• "Oliver Trager and" → "Oliver Trager, and"
• Pipe Sara Lownds to Sara Dylan
• "John Nogowski saw it" → "John Nogowski sees it"
• "Jim Beviglia wrote that the track" → "Jim Beviglia writes that the track"
• "as the narrator expresses" → "as they express"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:12, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Critical reception

• Retitle to Reception per the rankings
• "Heylin described the track as" → "Heylin describes the track as"
• "words or advice."" → "words or advice"." per MOS:QWQ
• "Trager praised the" → "Trager praises the"

• Amended per the four points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• "but added that "Dylan fumbles" → "but added how "Dylan fumbles"

• Reworked per WP:QUOTEFARM comment below. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• "and described it as" → "and describes it as"
• "has ever written."" → "has ever written"."
• Wikilink Rolling Stone
• "remarked of "To Ramona" and" → "remarks of "To Ramona" and"

• Amended per the four points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• Cut down the amount of direct quoting for the above per WP:QUOTEFARM

• I made some amendments. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Live performances and later releases

• Make the releases para the last of this section instead
• Pipe B-side to A-side and B-side
• "Belgium and Luxembourg" → "Belgium, and Luxembourg"
• Wikilink compilation album
• "Dylan's older songs "re-envisioned almost to the point of non-recognition."" → "his older songs "re-envisioned almost to the point of non-recognition"." per MOS:QWQ

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Credits and personnel

• Pipe Tom Wilson to Tom Wilson (record producer)

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:02, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Notes

• The ref is not needed for this note when it is invoked at the end of the actual sentence

• Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:30, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

References

• Copyvio score looks decent at 37.5%
• Wikilink Scarecrow Press per MOS:LINK2SECT
• Pipe Carlton to Welbeck Publishing Group
• Wikilink Princeton University Press and author-link Timothy Hampton
• Wikilink Penguin Books
• Wikilink Constable & Robinson
• Pipe Faber And Faber to Faber and Faber
• Bodley Head → The Bodley Head with the wikilink
• Pipe Black Dog & Leventhal to Black Dog & Leventhal Publishers
• Wikilink Billboard Books and shouldn't this be italicised?

• I tried, but got an error message "Italic or bold markup not allowed in: publisher=" BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• Maybe cite ref 13 solely in place of refs 11 and 17?

• I've retained these as there are a couple of direct quotations cited. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• Pipe Uncut to Uncut (magazine) on ref 19
• Wikilink Rolling Stone on ref 21 and why is 2015 in the date?

• There is a note on the article, which has a publiction date of May 24, 2020, that "This list originally appeared in a 2015 Special Edition" BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• Wikilink The Guardian on ref 22
• Newport Daily News → The Newport Daily News on ref 25 with the wikilink
• Wikilink USA Today on ref 27
• Cite Variety for ref 28, piping to Variety (magazine)
• Wikilink The New York Observer on ref 31

• Done, except where noted above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

External links

• Good

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; nice job on this one! --K. Peake 11:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• Many thank, K. Peake. Let me know if anything else is required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:31, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• ✓ Pass now, did some brief copy editing but nice job here! --K. Peake 09:17, 22 November 2022 (UTC)