Talk:SS John V. Moran

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:02, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

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John V. Moran

• ... that when the Michigan Shipwreck Research Association discovered the wreck of the freighter John V. Moran (pictured) in 2015, they called her the "the most intact steamship wreck on the bottom of Lake Michigan, if not all of the Great Lakes"? John V. Moran
  • ALT1:... that the freighter John V. Moran (pictured) and her sister ship were both sunk by ice on Lake Michigan, ten years apart? Deep in Lake Michigan, divers find pristine shipwreck lost in 1899John V. MoranWard, Eber
  • ALT2: ... that three crew members walked back to retrieve their belonging from the sinking steamship John V. Moran (pictured)?

• Reviewed: Ingrid Bergman performances
• Comment: Work in progress. Completed article.

Created by GreatLakesShips (talk). Self-nominated at 22:16, 28 December 2020 (UTC).

DYK checklist template

General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: ALT0 way too long. Added ALT2, which I believe is "hookier" than present hooks. Given a QPQ, this nom is good to go.Georgejdorner (talk) 04:41, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

• Since the reviewer proposed ALT2, we need a different editor to review it. Yoninah (talk) 16:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: Should I contact someone about a review? GreatLakesShips (talk) 13:43, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

• Sure. I'll ping Kingsif for help here. Yoninah (talk) 14:08, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

• Both alts in source and cited, I personally prefer Alt1 to Alt2 but both are fine. Kingsif (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kingsif: Thank you. GreatLakesShips (talk) 12:21, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

@Yoninah: ALT2 has been reviewed. GreatLakesShips (talk) 12:21, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• @GreatLakesShips: Regarding ALT1, there's nothing in the cite about the year the sister ship sank. Yoninah (talk) 21:17, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: Here is the source to confirm the date: https://greatlakes.bgsu.edu/item/440569 GreatLakesShips (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• @GreatLakesShips: Thanks. Please add it to the article. Yoninah (talk) 22:49, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: Done. GreatLakesShips (talk) 22:56, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you. Restoring tick per Kingsif's review. Yoninah (talk) 23:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:SS John V. Moran/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 19:46, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments

• Four paras in the lead is too much for an article of this length.
• Avoid single-sentence paras.
• As per previous review, link freighter and unlink American.
• As per previous review, I'd prefer to see more about the boat itself and its usage before telling me it sank.
• " from Milwaukee, Wisconsin for Muskegon, Michigan " both are overlinked.
• "when a piece of ice punched a hole" more that it drove into the ice, right?
• "at Grand Haven, Michigan the" comma after Michigan.
• Consider linking steamer and car ferry.
• Link "Official number"
• Where is yard number 44 referenced?
• Six of the first seven paras in "History" start with the ship name, repetitive.
• Convert 110 psi.
• "propelled a single' by
• No need to link common words link "flour".

"on August 16, 1888.[1] She" no need for this to be referenced in the infobox too.

• "...Company of Detroit, Michigan," overlinked.
• "of Detroit, Michigan, and was operated as part of Ward's Detroit & Lake Superior Line, also of Detroit.[1][2][10] Her first home port was Detroit" Detroit used four times here!
• "transferred/sold" which?
• "Company.[2][1] " order.
• "5:00 P.M" and others, needs a non-breaking space between the 5:00 and the P.M. and the P.M. should be a p.m., so this should be 5:00 p.m.
• Link tug.
• " downbound bulk freighter " overlinked and what is "downbound"?
• "in Superior, Wisconsin in " comma after Wisconsin.
• "Crosby Transportation Company of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and " Milwaukee overlinked again.
• "of Manitowoc, Wisconsin, Sheboygan, Wisconsin.. etc" no need to keep repeating Wisconsin, I would maybe says "the Wisconsin ports of ..."
• "left Milwaukee, Wisconsin for Muskegon, Michigan on" overlinked, both of them.
• "1:00 P.M., loaded with barrels of flour a" see earlier about (a) time format and (b) unlinking common terms.
• No need to link midnight.
• "travelling" if this is USEng, shouldn't this be "traveling"?
• " ship, Eber Ward wa" overlinked.
• "of Holland, Michigan began" comma after MI.
• "o instantly identify " not instantly, quickly perhaps.
• I'm seeing two entries in the fair use template as "n.a." which is not acceptable.

That's all I have for now, I'll put it on hold. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:07, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• @The Rambling Man: I have fixed everything (hopefully) that you pointed out, with the exception of the travelling/traveling issue. GreatLakesShips (talk) 18:56, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• I've reworked the lead a little bit, four paras was too long and it seemed logical to me to talk about her in-service life before talking about her demise. Let me know what you think. For what it's worth, I'm happy with the article now, but I'd like to gauge your feelings on the re-write so you might think of applying a similar approach to your other GA nominations? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:12, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• @The Rambling Man: I have always preferred my version of the lead. It was inspired by a a featured article, which i hold in high regard. Although, I completely agree with the service details. GreatLakesShips (talk) 20:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• The only poblem with that article (and indeed this one before my edits) is that the lead has a lead of its own. The first para of the lead is a summary of the rest of the lead and that's not what we want. First and foremost this was a boat. It was built. It sailed a while. Then it sunk. Now it's a wreck. That's really how the lead should be structured. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:18, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Noted. I will take a look later. GreatLakesShips (talk) 20:20, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• @The Rambling Man: I've changed them. GreatLakesShips (talk) 20:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I'm very pleased with how this article reads and appears now, good work, so I'm promoting to GA. Well done again. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:38, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you very much. GreatLakesShips (talk) 20:39, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Great Blizzard of 1899

This shipwreck apparently occurred in the Great Blizzard of 1899 based on the TV show that led me here. It seems to be worth mentioning in the article, if there is a usable source. A very quick web search didn't find one, and I haven't (at least for now) looked more carefully. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:2034 (talk) 20:38, 3 February 2024 (UTC)