Talk:R. Hari Kumar

Citations for Awards and decorations

@The Rambling Man: I see that you placed a citation needed tag on some of the medals. Two things I would say: first, the medals are identified from his image (in uniform) in the article. Second, in my experience of editing articles of Indian military personnel, I don't think there would be any citations for all the medals, but only for the notable ones. Like PVSM, AVSM, VSM etc are decorations, so they are approved by the president and a formal notification is issued by PIB. Other medals are "service medals" which are internally issued in the military and you won't find any news item verifying that. So though technically you're right in placing a cn tag, I'm not sure if it's of any use. Tagging @KCVelaga: for his views. Thanks —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 11:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Unverifiable material should be referenced or removed, particularly from BLPs. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: Is the image (taken from official website) of admiral wearing those medals on his uniform not enough to verify that? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 12:59, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

@Sarvatra and The Rambling Man: Thanks for starting this discussion, a much needed one. The point of unverifiable material is very clear and in BLPs it is certain. Sarvatra, I agree that "'service medals' which are internally issued in the military and you won't find any news", and I am very much aware of conditions in India. But it must be verifiable in some way. If not, it is better to remove them. Because photographs are not always reliable. Even in these portrait shots, it is unclear. If you observe the image used in this article, File:R Hari Kumar.jpg; the third ribbon in the first row appears have to have a grey strip on it (probably awarded twice, or in some special condition), and in the article just the ribbon was presented without any strip. This is obviously inaccurate. Also the third medal in the second row seems different to me from the one we've used in the article. There is always ambiguity of how we interpret these colours and relate with the SVG ribbons on WCommons. It varies from editor to editor, especially when the photos are of low resolution. It is confusing for readers with colour blindness as well. I think we don't have need to have the section of awards unless we have reliable source(s) for all of them. We can't always find such sources for all the articles, but that is not a good reason to use portraits as sources. I suggest not having section at all because; awards which not mentioned in any source should be removed, and there will be roughly 3–4 (may be more) left. A separate section is unecessary for them and, they can always covered at "awards" field in infobox. I've seen a lot of military biographies having such sections, but I don't really believe that it is a right practice. I vaguely remember adding these to a few of my first articles, but not later. I did add them to Sam Manekshaw, because I've got sources for all, including the service medals (p. 67 of this source). I feel the need to have a broader discussion and make MOS guidelines for this. KCVelaga (talk) 05:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Sigh. Yeah, I understand, and agree. A broader discussion and MOS for Indian military personnel is much needed. Thank you for you inputs. I agree that we should remove that section, and the verified medals are already covered in infobox. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 07:09, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Determining awards via a photograph of them wearing ribbons or medals is original research. Do not do it. To cite service awards, like campaign medals or long service ones, you probably need access to the individual's service record or a biographical book that has examined them. Otherwise, just list the notable ones that can be cited from reliable sources, which tends to be the higher level ones. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:24, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Sarvatra: Thanks for the reply. I removed the section. KCVelaga (talk) 11:36, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Peacemaker67: Hi PM, thanks for the comment. I agree with you. Also this has been a common practice on many military biographies. It will be good if we can explicitly deal with this in WP:MILMOS. Please suggest about proceeding further on this. KCVelaga (talk) 11:36, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Admiral R Hari Kumar, CNS.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:07, 27 September 2022 (UTC)