Talk:Primo and Epico

Discussion about the name of page

There's been alot of confusion about the name of this page. User:WWEJobber believes this page should be named Epico & Primo and changed it while I reverted it back due to sources stating that the name is Primo & Epico. I want to know from everybody what this page should be named and if we reached an agreement about the name, how can we prevent this from happening again. Mikeymike2001 (talk) 20:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

• Support Primo & Epico per this search of WWE's website. Although they switch it up sometimes, it seems clear that the majority of WWE's references to the team use "Primo & Epico". ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 00:02, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 23:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Los Matadores → Primo & Epico – The undiscussed move was definitely controversial and should not have been done without a discussion, with the editor moving the page of a team from its former name to the current name. Although Primo & Epico have been renamed/repackaged as Los Matadores, their previous characters should still have the WP:COMMONNAME, having been Primo & Epico from November 2011 to June 2013, while Los Matadores have only existed from September 2013. Also significant is that as Primo & Epico, the duo have been a one-time WWE Tag Team Champions, and have defended their titles at WrestleMania XXVIII, albeit in the pre-show. Los Matadores have won nothing yet. Also, two other WP:PW users back this move. Starship.paint (talk) 09:15, 6 November 2013 (UTC) Starship.paint (talk) 09:15, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Support per commonname --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:11, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• Support as per WP:COMMONNAME. — Richard BB 13:17, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. As the one who instigated this page move, you have my apologies for not discussing it. I must say that it is my understanding that WP:COMMONNAME applies only to names as they presently exist, and the only name for this wrestling team that presently exists is "Los Matadores". Former names are seldom used as article titles unless they are historic names, and even then the name they are referred to as in the present is the best name for an article, while leaving the past name redirected to the present. The lead had been changed to Los Matadores, the infobox had been changed to Los Matadores, so it was time to change the article title to that name. – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 16:48, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• Support I think WP:COMMONNAME is clear when saying "Wikipedia prefers the name that is most commonly used". Current name is not used until sources indicate the current name is more notable than previous, as is evident by the recent controversy over at Chelsea Manning. We've shut down a lot of move requests to recent names here on wrestling articles too, including Dutch Mantel (to current name Zeb Colter), Ron Killings (to current name R-Truth), and Místico (to current name Sin Cara). The name on top of the infobox does not need to match the name of the article.LM2000 (talk) 21:25, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• Support I am not aware of anything in WP:COMMONNAME supporting the existence argument nor is there any evidence that the team as a whole is not better known as Primo and Epico.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 23:41, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

To clarify what I meant, its that I don't believe that COMMONNAME stops applying to the older name Primo and Epico simply because they stopped performing under that name.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 00:15, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Please let me be more clear. I did not mean that COMMONNAME supports existing names in all cases. LM2000 above cites cases where it is not to policy to use today's name over yesterday's. Cat Stevens is another good example. However, is this really a case like those? All Wikipedia has to go by are sources – reliable sources – and the policy is clear: More weight is given to sources that are published after the name change and that use the new name than to sources that were published before the name change. Besides, there was some controversy before as to whose name should be first... Primo & Epico or Epico & Primo?... and should the word "and" be used or the ampersand (&)?. If we give more weight to the sources that use the new name and leave the article name as it is, then all that unnecessary controversy goes away. Wrestling fans thrive on controversy; encyclopedias do not. Their old name(s) redirect to this article. Anybody who still searches for them by their old names will still get to where they want to go. – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 01:08, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Damn fine points. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

• Support - Per WP:COMMONNAME. STATic message me! 04:34, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. According to WP:COMMONNAME, If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change. We should note that this is not limited only to sources that are used in the article. In addition to other sources that refer to this team as "Los Matadores", there are several sources that are used in the article that were published after the name change. If these are to be given more weight as per the Wikipedia article titles policy, then we must all consider that the renaming of this article to Los Matadores was quite possibly a justified move. – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 19:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Los Matadores better describes the team as a unit, rather than two wrestlers who only had the old name by default. Christopher Daniels and Kazarian's team was moved to Bad Influence (professional wrestling) very soon after the name debuted, despite being more commonly known as Daniels and Kazarian. That's a bit of an OTHERSTUFFEXISTS point, but precedent kind of counts. "Haku and The Barbarian" also did a lot as simply that, but they're called The Faces of Fear here. Same with The Miracle Violence Connection. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:44, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move again?

Can someone move this article again to Primo & Epico? Borikén (talk) 02:58, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

They may not be coming back under those ring names... El Alternativo (talk) 10:55, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

It does not matter if they or do not. They were known better as Primo & Epico with 1 championship. - Kiraroshi1976 (talk) 21:34, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

That is debatable. A low card title run vs. a longer low card run... Its hard to really gauge properly. It makes no significant difference, but patience would have been the ideal path. For all we know, these vignettes are only a prelude to something else, i.e. a stable. So far, WWE has avoided naming them directly... Maybe there is a reason for that, or maybe not. El Alternativo (talk) 06:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

• Warning - DO NOT move this article to the Shining Stars due to WP:RECENTISM. They had most success in their first run as Primo and Epico as tag team champions, and that run is still longer than this current run. starship.paint ~ KO 04:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Why was this page moved again without consensus? - 02:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

• Reverted. Borikén you may want to read this starship.paint ~ KO 04:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, it won't happen again. My bad... Borikén (talk) 04:30, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

• Borikén it's okay :) starship.paint ~ KO 04:32, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Why was this page moved yet again without consensus? Kiraroshi1976 (talk) 14:44, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't know... Borikén (talk · ctb) 16:30, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

• @Vjmlhds: - I reverted your move per this section. WP:RECENTISM comes to mind. starship.paint ~ KO 01:05, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

"They may not be coming back under those ring names."

Actually, they have come back under exactly these ring names. Sure, their team now has a team name that goes beyond their individual ring names but they are nevertheless "Primo" and "Epico". Whether their new name will overshadow the former name remains to be seen (but their "Shining Stars" debut wasn't exactly a hit) but as of now I think they are still more well known as "Primo & Epico". Str1977 ^(talk) 20:41, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Don't be facetious, that comment was from April 6 and back then we had no bloody idea what was happening besides what was seen in the first promo, which never mentioned their names. El Alternativo (talk) 11:27, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

On the origin of their current characters...

They are a parody of the government's All-Star Island tourism campaign, from their use of the catchphrase "Come to Puerto Rico... The Shinning Star of the Caribbean" to their emphasis on the nature, lifestyle and their mock pro-tourism vignettes. As a matter of fact, the "star" cognomen is new when referring to Puerto Rico (it is not a traditional nickname) and began with this 2014 campaign. 107.77.215.231 (talk) 04:15, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Is it the time for a family article?

Now that both tag teams within the Colón family have been referred to as "The Colóns", would it be the right time to fuse them into something like Anoaʻi family? Their lineage has been part of the gimmick of CCC/Primo/Epico, and I can dig some references from their WWC runs to compliment the WWE material. I'm not sure that either of the team articles can make GA (especially the 2010 team, given its brief run and sporadic WWC team-ups), but a family article has potential, with additional material for Carlos Colón and Stacy. El Alternativo (talk) 05:56, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I think it would be fine. Maybe something like Los Guerreros. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

@HHH Pedrigree: Exactly. I already have many references waiting to be used, and can work on such a piece by the winter. El Alternativo (talk) 00:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 26 May 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Primo and Epico. (non-admin closure) — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:01, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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Primo & Epico → Primo Colón & Epico Colón – Procedural nomination following contested undiscussed move. I am neutral. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:56, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

• @Chrishymalboy99 and Ribbon Salminen:I've opened this after the move was contested. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:58, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
• & to 'and', per Wikipedia style. So whichever way this goes the title should include 'and' and not '&'. Randy Kryn 12:25, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose as nominated, move to Primo and Epico. They've had the most success as "Primo and Epico" and still use variations of those ring names today. I'd even argue that it's still their common name, not "Primo Colón and Epico Colón". Sekyaw (talk) 00:53, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose Too redundant. Just as Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy are named "The Hardy Boyz" or "Matt and Jeff Hardy" together, the title must be named "Primo and Epico". Hansen Sebastian 05:56, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.