Talk:Pontiac (automobile)

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Requested move 1 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 01:18, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

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Pontiac → Pontiac (automobile) – It has been over a decade since a Pontiac car has been manufactured. While commercial search engines favor the car brand over other entities, anyone who's not looking for replacement parts is increasingly likely to be interested in the many municipalities or the more encyclopedic biography of the native American who's honored eponymously for his actions as a resistance fighter. As with the arguably similar Winnebago, which is still an active business, the primary topic links to a disambiguation page. 24.189.135.69 (talk) 14:33, 1 September 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 17:46, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Presumably also move Pontiac (disambiguation) to Pontiac; should have been a multi-RM (that makes it easier for the closer to finish up, too). Dicklyon (talk) 15:36, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom and the Winnebago example. The old car brand as primary topic is probably not what searchers usually want. Dicklyon (talk) 15:36, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. The car is still the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Someone searching on Wikipedia for "Pontiac" is still highly likely to be looking for the car article. It gets 35k views vs. 4k views for the biography article and page views averaging in the hundreds for the municipalities. Rreagan007 (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
• Weak Support in terms of absolute page views, the car manufacturer is still on top. However, the cars long term significance is waning, especially in comparison the the eponymous native American and the towns named after him.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:03, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

• This anticipating of what the future long-term significance of a topic will be strikes me as WP:CRYSTAL. It's not obvious to me that a car that was manufactured for 84 years would have less long-term significance than a Native American chief from the 1700s. Regardless, there are two different factors used for a primary topic. One is long-term significance, but the other factor is usage, and here the current topic is by far the most used based upon the page view stats. Given the overwhelming page views versus other articles of the same name, that alone should be enough to make it the primary topic. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:00, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

• Weak support. The car brand will eventually fade into insignificance, like most commercial brands, whereas the Native American leader and his formative war will still take a significant part in history books - at least so long as the United States still exists. I am not sure we're there yet. But I don't really see a good reason to object to this change. Walrasiad (talk) 23:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. As at least one supporter has noted, this is still the primary topic per page views. -- Calidum 02:15, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support The views on the automobile article are likely not representative anyway since people searching for the other topics would mostly end up on that page first, seeing as it is the current default. --198.103.104.11 (talk) 17:59, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
• more on pageview stats: It looks like people who enter "Pontiac" are most likely on their way to Pontiac GTO or Pontiac Firebird. The Pontiac article is great, and the brand was great, but the pageview stats don't really give any confidence that this is the topic people are looking for when they get there. Dicklyon (talk) 01:48, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Leaving out the places and individual for the moment, and focusing on the vehicle pages - Even if Pontiac GTO or Pontiac Firebird are more popular pages, and even if readers are going through Pontiac to get there, readers would still expect Pontiac to be the marque's page, consistent with all other automobile marques. "Pontiac" is the commonname of the marque, not of the GTO or Firebird. -M.Nelson (talk) 19:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
• Support Per nom. There is WP:NOPRIMARY for this term due to its historical significance._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:33, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom and User:Zxcvbnm Fma12 (talk) 23:23, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose - the car marque is still the primary topic. Pageviews show that the marque (and its related models) are far more popular than any of the other "Pontiac" pages. The tiny amount of hits to Pontiac (disambiguation) (am I reading this correctly - the dab only has 1% of hits compared to Pontiac?) suggest that few who navigate to Pontiac are looking for the places. While the marque's pageviews might be inflated compared to the Ottawa leader's due to having the "Pontiac" title, the popularity of the marque's models (e.g. Pontiac GTO, Pontiac Fiero, Pontiac Grand Prix, Pontiac Firebird) suggest that the marque's pageviews are realistically high. Dicklyon above suggested that readers might be arriving at Pontiac not to get to the Ottawa leader but to get to the various car models - even if that's the case, readers would expect "Pontiac" to be the marque's page, not a redirect to the most popular car or to "List of Pontiac cars". -M.Nelson (talk) 19:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Banshee

According to https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-doomed-1965-pontiac-banshee-xp-833-was-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-pontiac?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us, the concept car Pontiac Banshee XP 833 was a key car in the division's history, yet this Wikipedia does not mention it. Kdammers (talk) 20:09, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Combing the Archive

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RJSDuke (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by RJSDuke (talk) 17:00, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

The 1932 Pontiac V*

The wiki article states that Pontiac "unusually" discontinued their V8 and followed it with a straight 8. That's not exactly true. Pontiac was a "sister" to the much more expensive Oakland. When Oakland was in its final days, there was a surplus of Oakland V8 engines left over, and Pontiac offered that engine in 1932. V8 engines were more expensive to manufacture at that time, and Pontiac was simply one step above the cheapest GM car, the Chevrolet. Also, keep in mind that this was during depression times, and cheaper was better, in terms of sales. 2600:8807:603:4000:1901:1535:7D7F:97F6 (talk) 13:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)