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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles

WikiProject Automobiles (Rated Project-class)
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See here Template_talk:Infobox_automobile#SUV_prevalence_and_need_for_related_parameters and give opinions -->Typ932 T·C 19:14, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Since this section has been posted ONE person has given an opinion. Sammy D III (talk) 11:40, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Production carEdit

For those interested, there is a proposal to change the rules around the list of fastest production cars at Talk:Production car speed record#Request for Comment (deadline for comment - 30 March 2018). There is considerable background discussion on the talk page that has led to the proposed change. In essence the change drops the number of vehicles required and replaces it, for post 1980's, with manufacturers having a WMI number. NealeFamily (talk) 00:57, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Duplicate listEdit

It's crazy that a list of defunct manufacturers is kept at List of automobile manufacturers of the United States when List of defunct automobile manufacturers of the United States exists. That's a maintenance nightmare. I suggest that the former list is merged into the latter. Or probably better still, deleted outright as it is almost entirely unsourced. Repurpose the first list as current only with a link to the defunct list. SpinningSpark 00:01, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

  • I can see that, the main article to be only active companies and just put a header and change the opening statement appropriately. It makes sense that List of automobile manufacturers of the United States would only have current companies. The defunct article is missing a lot of sources, but it just needs some work, I probably wouldn't trim too hard as some of these are over 100 years dead and hard to source, but it needs attention. Adding the recently defunct under the main company (Mercury under Ford, Oldsmobile under GM, for instance) doesn't bother me so much, but I could go either way on these more recent defunct companies. Dennis Brown - 18:03, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
  • A case could be made for one article with current and defunct lists and another case could be made for separate articles but the current situation of doing it both ways is not good. A simple solution is to delete the defunct list from List of automobile manufacturers of the United States and add the alternate article in each article's 'See also' list. I have already done the 'See also' part but haven't done the delete.  Stepho  talk  21:46, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

New images from User:Bull-DoserEdit

I noticed that a bunch of new car images are credited to User:Bull-Doser, who has been blocked from Wikipedia since 2012. His account on Wikimedia Commons is still active and he's been uploading a bunch of images there (see [1]), then getting someone else (or maybe his own sockpuppet) to add them here. For example, Volkswagen Jetta#/media/File:2019 Volkswagen Jetta au SIAM 2018.jpg, an awful front-view shot with reflection. Should we report this to an admin? Or just assess image quality case-by-case like we normally do? --Vossanova o< 20:10, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I think we need to report it to an admin since Bull-Doser has a strong history of trying to evade his bans, which has included multiple sockpuppet accounts. Reattacollector (talk) 18:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I just posted about this on the Administrators' noticeboard. In case anyone else from here wants to chime in. Reattacollector (talk) 20:31, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Admin informed me that his block is only valid for the English Wikipedia, and that he is free to contribute to the Wikimedia commons as long as he is following the rules. But I think it would be worthwhile to be vigilant to see if this is leading to another round of ban evasion, which Bull-Doser has notoriously down over a number of years. See if any sockpuppets are adding the images to articles, etc. Reattacollector (talk) 21:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@Reattacollector: A bit late but he been blocked from the English Wikipedia since October 2012. As the admin said he can contribute to Wikimedia Commons. It been about 6 years and he hasn't really been causing problems. Users have been using his images on articles. He often the first to photograph a new or facelifted automobile in America which proven useful until we get more higher quality images. I viewed thousands of Bull-Doser's images and he still takes bad ones but to be honest, he has improved overall. --Vauxford (talk) 15:22, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Opinions invited on the Jaguar I-PaceEdit

Is the British Jaguar I-Pace an SUV as Jaguar[2] and the British press[3][4] are describing it, or a mid-size liftback as User:Michge[5] describes it? -- DeFacto (talk). 10:27, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Not a liftback by any stretch of the imagination. It would need a longer trunk for that. I might be to willing to call it a hatchback, it's not much taller and has the proportions, but I see no source for that. The sources all call it a SUV, it's going to be marketed as a SUV, I see no reason to refer to it in the article as other than SUV. --Pc13 (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
This question wasn't asked in a neutral fashion. That said, the non-neutral request doesn't change my opinion. Basically if RS's call it an SUV we follow the sources. Springee (talk) 12:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

With no apparent support here for the change, I've changed it back. -- DeFacto (talk). 20:18, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Merging redundant Chrysler Minivan articlesEdit

I have noticed that we have many redundant articles about specific vehicles that I think should be merged. One example where the problem is the worst has to easily be with the articles related to the Chrysler minivans. Every different model of Chrysler minivan has it's own article, even when the only differences between the two is just trim and options, each with their content forked from each other with varying quality. I proposed last year that all these articles be merged into a central article named Chrysler minivans with a specific article for each generation, which I created. However my efforts were blocked and reverted, so in the end, the minivans just now have even more redundant articles! I created a request for merge on the Dodge Caravan page which has gained unanimous support. However I learned from that experience that this isn't something I should undertake alone, it should be a community effort, especially since it will require merging over ten articles into one in a short period of time. Here is what I propose:
1. Chrysler minivans being the parent article to offshoot articles for each generation: Chrysler minivans (S), Chrysler minivans (AS), Chrysler minivans (NS), Chrysler minivans (RS), Chrysler minivans (RT) and Chrysler Pacifica (RU). The Pacifica article can be named "Pacifica" since that's the only name it's sold under worldwide.
2. Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Voyager will be merged into the Chrysler minivans article.
3. Chrysler Town & Country (1941–1988) should be moved to just "Chrysler Town & Country", and that article's minivan content should be condensed into a section that links to the Chrysler minivans article.
4. Plymouth Voyager should be reduced to a short disambiguation article noting the the Plymouth Voyager nameplate has been both used as a full size van that is a rebadged Dodge Tradesman, which links to the Tradesman article, and then links to the generation of Chrysler minivans which were sold as the Plymouth Voyager: Chrysler minivans (S), Chrysler minivans (AS) and Chrysler minivans (NS).
5. Volkswagen Routan is merged into Chrysler minivans (RT), which already has a dedicated section to the Routan which is most of the main Routan's article content forked and condensed.
6. Lancia Voyager is merged into Chrysler minivans (RT).
7. Chrysler TEVan is merged into Chrysler minivans (AS).

All of these article's non-redundant content has already been collected into the articles about the respective generations. All we really have to do is merge them together. Just when I try to do it by myself it immediately gets undone by an editor outside of the project with the rationale of "You can't merge all these articles together by yourself, go to the talk page." It's sat dormant for a year now but I still want to do it because it's for the best of the project. Do I have the support of other editors to make this move? Reattacollector (talk) 19:03, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Here's a response for each proposal in the list

1. No need to rename page. There already is a Chrysler Pacifica disambiguation page.
2. Strongly Oppose Too much elimination of content.
3. Strongly Oppose The article name is due to the model recognition of the minivan, and see #2 for the latter.
4. Oppose Can see point on expanding content elsewhere on full-size version (if anywhere), but too much elimination of content
5. On the fence rather than merging, this duplication of content can be fixed through editing as well.
6. No need Article already redirects here and nearly no mention whatsoever into content.
7. Oppose While in strong need of attention, this article is of its own scope and needs to stand alone.

While there are there things that can use attention, the central Chrysler minivans should be made smaller, with content added to the offshoot articles. Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager have related, but not identical, model histories, justifying keeping them.

To counter, I want to clarify that I have no plans to change the Chrysler Pacifica (RU) article. It's fine the way it is. You're making the loss of content out to be far worse than it will be. Not only is a lot of content from the two Voyager and Town & Country articles just copied from the Dodge Caravan articles, but all of the content in the articles worth preserving is already present in Chrysler minivans (S), Chrysler minivans (AS), Chrysler minivans (NS), Chrysler minivans (RS) and Chrysler minivans (RT). There are so many redundant articles for this topic that I'm even having a hard time keeping track of the consensus right now. The merge proposal has gotten four supports on the Dodge Caravan talk page, one oppose on the Town & Country talk page and one oppose here. Reattacollector (talk) (talk) 13:18, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Other redundant articles I propose be merged.Edit

There are some other redundant car articles I want to propose be merged together. Like with the issue with the Chrysler minivan articles in the section above, all these articles are for different versions of the same vehicle, and I don't believe they are different enough from each other to be notable to have their own article. 1. Mercury Villager be merged into Nissan Quest.
2. Ford Five Hundred and the content for the Third-generation in the Mercury Montego article be merged into Ford Taurus (fifth generation).
3. Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford LTD Crown Victoria articles should be merged into one article. (the Lincoln Town Car is different enough from the other two to still have it's own standalone article}.
4. Plymouth Acclaim be merged into Dodge Spirit.
5. Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talon be merged into Mitsubishi Eclipse.
6. Dodge Colt be de facto merged into the Mitsubishi Galant and Mitsuibshi Mirage articles.
7. Eagle Summit be merged into Mitsubishi Mirage.
8. Mercury Marquis be merged into Ford LTD.
9. The content from the 1994-97 section of the Chrysler New Yorker article be merged into Chrysler LHS.
10. The content from the Mercury Cougar article be merged into the articles for the respective generations of Ford Mustang and Ford Thunderbird that each Cougar generation was based off of.
11. Mercury Tracer be merged into Ford Laser and Ford Escort (North America).
12. Merkur XR4Ti be merged into Ford Sierra.
13. Merkur Scorpio be merged into Ford Scorpio.
14. Eagle Vision be merged into Chrysler Concorde.
15. Mercury Mountaineer be merged into Ford Explorer.
16. Mercury Mariner and Mazda Tribute be merged into Ford Escape.
17. Oldsmobile Bravada be merged into Chevrolet S-10 Blazer and Chevrolet Trailblazer.
18. GMC Envoy, Buick Rainier, Isuzu Ascender and Saab 9-7x be merged into Chevrolet Trailblazer.
19. Pontiac G8 be merged into Holden Commodore (VE).
20. Pontiac Sunfire, Buick Skyhawk and Oldsmobile Firenza be merged into Chevrolet Cavalier.
21. Pontiac Sunbird be merged into Chevrolet Monza and Chevrolet Cavalier.
22. Buick Somerset be merged into Buick Skylark.
23. Chevrolet Lumina APV, Pontiac Trans Sport, Pontiac Montana, Oldsmobile Silhouette, Chevrolet Uplander, Saturn Relay, Buick Terraza and Opel Sintra be merged into central "General Motors U Minivan" articles for each generation.
24. Dodge Omni 024 be merged into Dodge Charger (L-body).
25. Mercury M-Series be merged into Ford F-series 26. Lincoln Mark LT be merged into Ford F-Series (eleventh generation)

What is the project's opinions about these potential moves? Reattacollector (talk) 20:16, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I would oppose nearly all of that. When I've seen articles where a related car has been merged in, the "merge" is often merely a separate section added in at the end. What's the purpose in that? And if the content is integrated throughout it becomes difficult to find the details on any specific model. I'd prefer to see more articles that are smaller and easier for the reader to navigate than have a single massive, disorganized one. Much of what you're proposing would be very confusing to the reader, in my opinion. Some of those GM cars you mention each had differing powertrain options at different times and trying to explain all of that in one article would make the end result intolerable for anyone trying to find specific information, unless you had each one in its own section - and again, at that point it'd be easier to just leave the articles separate anyway. I took a look at the history on some of the ones listed; the fact that merges are getting undone by readers who didn't readily find the information they were seeking is evidence of this, and good reason to err on the side of clarity even if it means a degree of redundancy and/or the existence of more and smaller articles.
(I actually proposed a merge recently regarding your #3 above, but to merge Ford LTD Crown Victoria into Ford LTD (Americas) because the way both are written it is unclear which model years are covered where - but that's a separate discussion.) Olds 403 (talk) 01:36, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Maybe a better way to approach this would be to instead focus on the articles where the cars are almost or completely identical both cosmetically and mechanically, where the differences are between the two cars are so trivial it's hard to justify the models having separate pages, especially if there is already an emerging standard for similar articles to be merged. Thus I propose a condensed list: 1. Mercury Villager be merged into Nissan Quest, only difference between the two is the grille, badges and trim, neither offers and special capabilities that the other doesn't. They can be served by one article, ala Eurovans.
2. Ford LTD Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis be merged into Ford Crown Victoria. For the majority of their run the only differences between the two models were trim and some exterior modifications. And the LTD Crown Victoria is already so strongly associated with just being called the "Crown Victoria" I think it having its own separate article is more confusing to readers.
3. Plymouth Acclaim be merged into Dodge Spirit. Only difference between the two is the grille and taillights and some interior trim. Plus there is already a pattern of the non-notable Plymouth models being merged into the article for the Dodge, for example Plymouth Sundance has been merged into Dodge Shadow, Plymouth Horizon has been merged into Dodge Omni and the Plymouth Breeze article has been merged into Chrysler Cirrus. There is nothing there that can't be easily and neatly covered in the Spirit article.
4. Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talon be merged into Mitsubishi Eclipse, all three cars are almost 100% identical, only difference is the front bumper styling and some trim.
5. Eagle Summit be merged either into Dodge Colt or Mitsubishi Mirage. The Summit is just the Colt/Mirage sold under a different name, not notable enough for it's own article.
6. Either merge Ford Cougar into Mercury Cougar or merge the content from the 1999-02 generation section of the Mercury Cougar article into the Ford Cougar article. They are the exact same vehicle just sold under a different name depending on the market. Consider how the section for the third-generation Ford Escape just links readers to the Ford Kuga article.
7. Merge Mercury Tracer into the Ford Laser and Ford Escort (North America) articles, the first-generation Tracer is just a Laser sold under a different name and the second and third generations are just Escorts with slight cosmetic modifications.
8. Merge Merkur XR4Ti into Ford Sierra, the XR4Ti is just the Sierra imported into America and sold under a different name.
9. Merge Merkur Scorpio into Ford Scorpio, it is just the Ford Scorpio sold under a different name.
10. Merge Mercury Mountaineer into Ford Explorer, both vehicles are nearly identical, Mountaineer just has slightly different exterior styling and more standard features. The article for the Mazda Navajo, a similar badge-engineered Explorer clone, has already been merged into the Ford Explorer article.
11. Merge Mazda Tribute and Mercury Mariner into Ford Escape, all three vehicles are completely identical aside from trim and front fascias, the Ford Escape article already covers both variants. Another user proposed this merge months ago, it's still under consideration.
12. Let the Chevrolet Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Saab 9-7X and Oldsmobile Bravada have their own articles. Merge Isuzu Ascender into GMC Envoy since the Ascender is almost identical to the Envoy aside from slight cosmetic alterations, similar to how Isuzu Hombre has been merged into Chevrolet S-10.. Merge Buick Rainier into Oldsmobile Bravada, as the Rainier is literally the Bravada being remarketed under the Buick brand due to the Oldsmobile brand being discontinued.
13. Merge Pontiac G8 into the Holden Commodore (VE) article, as it is simply the VE Commodore sold under a different name.
14. Merge Buick Somerset into Buick Skylark. This should be a no-brainer, the Somerset was the two door version of the Skylark marketed under a different name starting in 1985 until it was merged back into the Skylark line for 1988. Not notable enough for it's own article, can be best be covered by a mention in the Skylark article.
Reattacollector (talk) 03:41, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

  • A vast long list? Well I'm sure some will sneak through, just because no-one will have the time to check all of them.
8. oppose Merging Merkur XR4Ti into Ford Sierra, because "the XR4Ti is just the Sierra " is quite untrue. The XR4i, the high-performance V6-engined Sierra was quite a different beast from the jellymould. I'd be OK with merging the Merkur into an article on the Sierra XR4i, but we don't currently have one.
I've no opinion on the others, as they're US cars and I know little about those. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
I think there's two separate things at hand here (or should be, at least). Proposing that many page merges at once is a lot to consider and I don't think there'll be enough specific input on most to gain a consensus.
However, the heretofore-unmentioned part of the discussion would seem to be this: what should be the "default" in cases like this? Can we apply a general standard one way or the other?
To that point, I'd propose a default of keeping articles separate, for the reasons I noted above. I see little merit in overturning what seems to be the present status quo for little (if any) practical gain.
There is one of your items that I'd agree with off-hand, and that's Buick Somerset. The car is more or less a brief name change within the Skylark's lineage and for that reason I think a merge makes sense. I'll comment on the Somerset talk page to keep the discussions orderly. Olds 403 (talk) 01:48, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm happy in principle with merging "it is just the Leyland Wombat sold under a different name." but I looked at the first of those and it wasn't. These need to be checked individually, by someone who knows that model. A blanket OK would be a bad idea. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
I agree that the default should be that the articles should be left separate, and a case must be made for merging. We don't want this being stretched to ridiculous lengths to where we have to argue why the Lexus ES should have an article separate from Toyota Camry. The reason why I proposed such a laundry list is because I believe I am confronting a problem that has been left unchecked for far too long, or possibly never properly confronted, so thus there is a lot of catching up to do. I also want to point out that article quality plays a significant part in why I am pursuing this. As is often the case when we have an article for a car model that is just a lightly modified, badge-engineered version of a more prominent model, there isn't enough unique information/characteristics about it to constitute an article about the car, so they are either just stubs (like Isuzu Ascender) or they're poorly written articles that are just cobbled together from content copied from the more prominent model's article (see Mercury Sable and Plymouth Voyager for particularly egregious examples). That's the main rationale as to why I want to merge the Chrysler minivan articles together. Also, the articles for the badge engineered clones are often poorly maintained. While editors are maintaining and improving the article for the main model, the clone's article just sits dormant, often for years at a time. (Look at the edit history for Isuzu Ascender or Plymouth Acclaim). So we have a bunch of poorly written dormant articles for vehicles that are just a version of a more prominent model with a different grille and taillights that were created by just copying the content from the more prominent model's article as it appeared years ago. At that point why not just merge them and have one article? Though I also want to add that there may be cases where it's the opposite, and the clone's article is decently written and it's notable enough to stand on it's own: while I voted to merge Pontiac G8 into Holden Commodore (VE) (I'm not the one who originally proposed it), opposition has emerged arguing that since the G8 has developed a cult following among muscle car enthusiasts in the United States, that gives it enough notability to have its own article. Reattacollector (talk)(via public computer) (talk) 12:48, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Lexus vs. Toyota are a good example of articles that clearly shouldn't be merged. In particular, because they're sold in the same areas. These are two marques that are distinguished to distinguish them (and many other details). They're not just an identical vehicle which collects a more locally-known label, like the Merkur & Taunus or Opel vs. Vauxhall. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:22, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree on the blanket OK of merge proposals being a bad idea. Of the 26, there are only about 3-4 that make a good case for merging; the goal of most other proposals can be handled through some editing attention. (There are a couple of proposals that might work out better a different way than proposed, as well). This whole topic does bring up the topic of badge engineering and how it is done between automakers. While merging some articles makes sense, consideration needs to be taken for the combined product. (the example of the Lexus ES and Toyota Camry is perfect here). A stub with a half-dozen lines of text is a better candidate for a merge than an article with a half-dozen subsections with several infoboxes. In a greater context, this also runs the risk of eliminating a great deal of articles related to specific automakers (i.e., Mercury, Merkur, Plymouth, Dodge, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile); in the European automotive industry, badge engineering is used just as much (if not more openly) than in North America; in Wikipedia, there is no mass call to eliminate content of related automobiles (VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda, Opel/Vauxhall/Holden/Chevrolet, Peugeot/Citroen, Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo, Rolls-Royce/Bentley).

Going through the list, here's an (quick) opinion of each one:

  1. Neutral/Low Priority While highly related to each other, neither article is a stub and both vehicles have different model histories (Mercury Villager was all-new, Nissan Quest replaced two other vehicles and remained in production for two further generations)
  2. Strongly Oppose The Five Hundred article is much more descriptive of the car; the Taurus article is largely derived from other Ford Taurus articles, describing revisions to car. Different marketing for Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego, as the former replaced Ford Crown Victoria while latter sold alongside Mercury Grand Marquis.
  3. Strongly Oppose LTD Crown Victoria into Crown Victoria might be worth discussing, but not Crown Victoria into Grand Marquis (article length, different market position following 1992 redesign)
  4. Support Would fit together well with proper editing attention (predecessor Plymouth Reliant is example)
  5. Oppose All three vehicles have slight technical differences from one another, with a different model history. Suggest a merge of Plymouth Laser into Eagle Talon, though.
  6. Absolutely Not Three very complicated model families, without any sub-articles present.
  7. Strongly Oppose Moving Eagle Summit content into much larger Mitsubishi Mirage article makes it disappear. Propose moving Eagle Vista (stub) into Dodge Colt.
  8. Oppose only the final two generations (1979-1982, 1983-1986) have direct commonality. Suggest attention towards making sub-articles of Ford LTD (Americas) in future and addressing content this way.
  9. Oppose Suggest adapting content from New Yorker article to Chrysler LHS article (the latter outnumbers the former nearly 5 to 2).
  10. Strongly oppose Mercury Cougar has a model history involving several Ford (and Mercury) vehicles. This page is not redundant and allows for the model history to be understood in a single place.
  11. Slightly oppose While later examples are nearly as similar to the Ford Escort as the Dodge Spirit/Plymouth Acclaim, the first-generation Mercury Tracer marks the first use of the Ford Laser in North America and is a Mercury vehicle not marketed by Ford.
  12. Strongly oppose While derived from the Ford Sierra, the Merkur XR4Ti underwent modifications for North America, the sole market of Merkur; the difference between the cars is the scope of the article.
  13. Oppose (In part, the result already exists on the Ford Scorpio article); the Merkur Scorpio article can be reworked instead
  14. Neutral While indeed highly related, the Eagle Vision doesn't share a model history with the Concorde, as it was effectively replaced by the Chrysler 300M; leaving the article standing (and not questioning the Dodge Intrepid article either) is the best course of action in the long run.
  15. Oppose While highly related, the Ford Explorer article is at the point of needing to be split up; a merger is not a good idea there. The 2006-2009 Mercury Mountaineer is also related to the Lincoln Aviator, in terms of some content.
  16. Oppose While sharing commonality with the Ford Escape, the Mariner and Tribute are marketed in different export locales. All three have a slightly different model history; while the Escape is currently in production, the Tribute is the only one of the trio that had a predecessor and successor.
  17. Strongly oppose A one into two split is impractical. While visibly similar, the Oldsmobile Bravada offered several different mechanical features from its Chevrolet/GMC counterparts during its production. Also one of the first US-market luxury SUVs.
  18. Strongly oppose A four-into-one merger risks eliminating too much content; the GMT360 page already exists. I can agree with the Ascender/Envoy merger, but I'm not totally sure (yet) on the Bravada/Rainier merger.
  19. Strongly oppose While Pontiac G8 is common with its Holden Commodore counterpart, merging it back in does not make sense not from its popularity, but because one would have also have to consider other counterparts of the Commodore as well, including the Vauxhaull VXR8, Chevrolet Lumina, and Chevrolet Omega; this would needlessly complicate the article.
  20. Strongly oppose While several of the GM J-car articles can use some attention, none are stubs and using its counterparts to expand the Chevrolet Cavalier article could make it needlessly long (there is already a GM J platform article)
  21. Slightly oppose I do suggest a different merger, however. Pontiac Sunfire into Pontiac Sunbird; however, the former nameplate is fairly recognizable on its own, so I want to leave that up for discussion.
  22. Support (under suggestion) I completely agree for the need, but instead of a merger, this is an ideal place to make a sub-article for Buick Skylark. Instead, move Buick Somerset to "Buick Skylark (1986-1991)", with Buick Somerset content as a subsection
  23. Unsure of explanation Beyond expanding the GM U platform page, I was not sure what was proposed. The only mergers I would suggest would be Chevrolet Uplander into Chevrolet Venture; the 1990-1996 "Dustbuster" vans are completely different from the 1997-2005/2005-2009 vans.
  24. Support The articles are a good fit for putting together. While the Omni 024 came first, I'm not sure which nameplate is better recognized; I plan on leaving that up to discussion.
  25. Mostly Oppose While the Mercury M-Series vehicles directly appear as clones, the article is of a different scope (explaining the reason behind its production). Along with offering space that is not afforded in the very long Ford F-Series space, there are Mercury M-series vehicles beyond pickup trucks.
  26. Oppose There is a stand-alone article for the much rarer Lincoln Blackwood pickup; there are also two generations of the Mark LT (the second generation was marketed in Mexico)

Overall, I don't think going so heavy-handed is the best idea (especially in terms of trying to build consensus). Going through the articles and editing things out could accomplish a lot more. --SteveCof00 (talk) 08:18, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Ending the system of portalsEdit

Hello, there's a proposal to delete all Wikipedia portals. Please see the discussion here. --NaBUru38 (talk) 14:00, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Chevrolet VoltEdit

Chevrolet Volt, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 21:47, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Christin from Turo / proposed updatesEdit

I am Christin, reaching out on behalf of Turo. I am looking for someone who is willing to review the proposed edits I suggested on the Turo page in the link below.

Thank you

Christin at Turo (talk) 17:29, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Lead image for Electric CarsEdit

There is a discussion about the lead image for the Electric car article going on at Talk:Electric car#Images that look like electric cars or car cars. Comments welcome there.  Stepho  talk  08:22, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Volkswagen GroupEdit

I discovered this thing, WP:WikiProject Volkswagen Group / {{User WikiProject Volkswagen Group}} / Category:WikiProject Volkswagen Group members -- it only has one member, no talk page, no project banner, no category, no activity since mid-2016 -- (talk) 08:27, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Centre for Connected and Autonomous VehiclesEdit

This UK government body seems like an important player in the field of autonomous vehicles, but it doesn't get a mention on Wikipedia. I don't know how much could be written about it, but there is likely at least a paragraph - where would be the place to put it? Thryduulf (talk) 11:19, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps it can be mentioned at Autonomous car or Vehicular automation. But you need to have notability and references to back it up.  Stepho  talk  20:08, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Ford Mondeo Mk3 as 4-wheel drive?Edit

AFAIK the Mondeo Mk3 was FWD only and yet it is listed as AWD:

Did such a car exist? If not I would propose to delete the mentioning of AWD

--PhilippDavid (talk) 17:17, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

The normal criteria is that all claims must be self evident or require some supporting evidence - usually in the form of references. No evidence means it can be deleted. See WP:REF.  Stepho  talk  22:16, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
The German-language article doesn't mention AWD for the 2000 Ford Mondeo. --NaBUru38 (talk) 18:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Plug-in electric vehicleEdit

Plug-in electric vehicle, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 08:37, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Generations and phasesEdit

What do you all think of using the term "phase" to describe a model code change (with a significant update) within a generation of a model? See for example Porsche 991. I bring this up because of Dodge Viper, which 3 years ago used both terms but since has replaced all references to "generation" with "phase", which I think is overkill. --Vossanova o< 18:59, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Describing clean sheet designs as phases seems wrong, I don't find it particularly objectionable within a generation but I think "20XX Update" is better. Toasted Meter (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Normal usage is generations means radically different changes, often both mechanically and in looks. Within generations we get face lifts where it is just minor tweaks to the design. Never heard phases used for either of those cases.  Stepho  talk  21:30, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
I would just keep with whatever general wording most of the sources are using. In the case of the 991.2, they're comparing to a mid-generation facelift, but say its exceptional because the exterior looks almost the same, unlike a typical (non-Porsche) facelift, and the engine is completely different, unlike a typical facelift. Explaining all this to the reader is a lot higher priority than Wikipedia issuing a judgement whether something is or isn't a new generation. Just describe the changes as changes, don't call them features or upgrades or sandbagging or downgrades. Just changes. Cite in-text sources' opinions on what it amounts to. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:25, 19 May 2018 (UTC)


mostly all of the draft of wiki automobile was from @ im just shock, I fix a lot of his category issues and some of them are ready for main article? like this one Draft:Tesla Model 4. < 03:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

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