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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles

WikiProject Automobiles (Rated Project-class)
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Category:Mid-engined vehiclesEdit

Category:Mid-engined vehicles, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for Deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.

Relevance of modern crash tests for older carsEdit

A number of (probably related) IP editors have been removing/altering crash test results from articles about old Russian cars, such as Lada Riva, Lada Samara, UAZ Simbir on the grounds that they are 'unnecessary for an old model (which is older than the test itself)'. I'd like to have some extra feedback on whether there is some sort of consensus on the matter. Thanks!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 13:25, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

This is hard question, because those old models surely have bad results, they are not for sale in most countries anymore. Not sure if its necessary to have data which is valid only for some countries -->Typ932 T·C 17:34, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
As an IP editor who removed the data, I'd like to point out that modern-day car safety assessment programmes were introduced and became necessary for car manufacturers only in the 1990s (Euro NCAP was formed in November 1996), hence it is self-evident that older cars designed decades before these tests cannot meet modern safety standards. They might have been crash tested in a different manner and considered as safe before, in their best years, but since then car safety standards, technologies, regulations, and tests have changed drastically. In my opinion, it is absurd and unnecessary to edit articles about vintage cars, adding everywhere that, say, "in 2012 a 1960s VW Beetle failed to pass a test introduced in 2001", as such an old car is obviously outdated in terms of safety, much older than the test itself, and there is no way it can have a better result and compete with newer cars. Also, the edits I removed made no mention that the test is a modern one, introduced only in 2001, while the cars are not. I tried to improve that, but the opposing user reverted my edits as WP:SYN. Lastly, I've got to say that all the aforementioned crash tests were introduced and conducted by only one private magazine, according to its own programme. 90.155.195.3 (talk) 21:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
If Wikipedia were a shopping guide then we would only want to include relevant contemporary shoppers advice and not distract car buyers with anachronistic tests. But it’s not. An encyclopedia is about giving broad insight and allowing readers to see context. A modern crash test on an old car is an excellent way to give today’s readers a way to relate to the past. We convert foreign currencies and correct money values for inflation for the same reasons. Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:10, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
It's worth mentioning that many of those cars are old in design only. The Lada Riva was the best selling car model in Russia as recently as 2008 (the ARCAP test is from 2001). Tens of thousands of Lada 4x4 are still sold today across a number of countries.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:11, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Actually, if you check the source you have cited, you'll see that it says virtually nothing about the Riva. And of course it wasn't the best-selling car model in Russia in 2008. 90.155.195.3 (talk) 23:42, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
If you check the source and bother to select the right year, you'll find that it was.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:51, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
It doesn't work properly in my browser for some reason, but I've seen your screenshot. 90.155.195.3 (talk) 01:10, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Looking at this, I'm not seeing how it violates SYN; I see no conclusions being drawn. As for irrelevance, the cars are still on the road & still in production, so the fact they can't pass modern crash tests is germane (if not exactly fair). TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 22:00 & 22:01, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

If a reliable source did a modern crash test on the Patent-Motorwagen I'd love to see it in the article Benz Patent-Motorwagen. We aren't selling cars here. It's irrelevant whether or not it's on the market or in production because we aren't influenced by whether readers are making buying decisions or are deciding if they should ride in this car or that car. We're not giving advice or guiding people's decision. We're only trying to help people understand things, and that means all things from the beginning of time. It's terrible how many articles are framed with the needs of the contemporary consumer in mind. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:18, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Verb tenses for out-of-production modelsEdit

Does the project have a recommended way of describing out-of-production models in the lead sentence, specifically with respect to verb tenses? I have generally been using the format "[Model Foo] is a [car type] that was produced by [manufacturer] between [date 1] and [date 2]", as this recognises that the model is no longer produced, but examples are still in existence. However, I have encountered at least one other approach recently, and wondered if this has been discussed before? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:33, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

I have seen, or participated in, at least two or three previous discussions about this. And, quite a long time back I raised a similar question via the teahouse ('is' vs 'was') and something 'like' the method noted above was felt to be the best way. Eagleash (talk) 10:54, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Not the same, but similar: MOS:TVNOW recommends that format for old TV shows since the show still exists (e.g. "The Afternoon Show is a British talk show which was broadcast by Channel 1 between 2008 and 2011. The program was hosted by Susan Jones and John Smith and recorded in London..."). Sjö (talk) 10:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
I don't remember if it's been discussed here before, but I always change to "is" if I come across a "was" - if I know they still are. -- DeFacto (talk). 18:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Three door and five doorEdit

User:Dogs.barking.duster.rolling has been changing the body style attribute in the infoboxes of vehicles with hatches connected to the interior of cars from two or four door to three door and five door, counting the hatch as a door. I am not particularly in favor of this, in my mind a door is a opening intended for the entry and egress of passengers, if we count all openings that a passenger might be able to fit through as doors irregardless of car type as with the 350Z [1] it would seem that one should call the Corvette McLaren 570GT three doors as well, there also seems to be possibility for confusion when it comes to vehicles like the Hyundai Veloster with three proper doors and a hatch, should it be described as a four door? In my opinion this should be reserved for conventional hatchbacks if it's to be used at all, but I would like some other views on this. Toasted Meter (talk) 02:14, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I believe it depends a lot on the area. In the US, hatches generally aren't seen as doors but in Europe (and possible Asia?) they are. In my opinion a hatch is simply a door in the back of the car. I don't think it's a door/hatch if only the window opens (the way it is most Corvettes I believe), then it's just a window. It's an interesting topic and I think we need more opinions on this. There doesn't seem to be a general approach to this in Wikipedia as some hatch-equipped coupes are classified as three-doors and some as two-doors, probably depending on who wrote it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dogs.barking.duster.rolling (talkcontribs) 11:25, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
We had this discussion a few years back and the consensus was that the rear door of hatchbacks, liftbacks, wagons and similar counts as a door. Too sleepy to dig it up from the archives right now. The current consensus is written up at {{Infobox_automobile}} as 'Note: station wagons, hatchbacks, etc, are given an extra door to signify their larger rear openings compared to coupés and sedans, etc.' Of course, consensus can change but the changes to the articles should wait until after the discussion.  Stepho  talk  15:53, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
Is this Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/Archive 18#How many doors does a wagon have? it? Under that rule the 350Z seams to not fit as a wagon or hatchback and should be described as a 2 door, is that right? Toasted Meter (talk) 04:44, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
Yep, that's the correct archive. The 350Z is a liftback (in spite of Nissan calling it a coupe) and I would count liftback doors the same as hatchback doors, in this case, 3-door. The same would apply for my own Toyota AE86, even though I have only entered through the rear hatch a couple of times when shifting heavy items.  Stepho  talk  09:40, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Carsalesbase.com and detailed list of Volvo Cars salesEdit

Hi! There's a discussion at Talk:Volvo Cars#Sales figures about carsalesbase.com as a source and about the section Volvo Cars#Annual sales by country. Input from editors with experience of editing car-related articles would be appreciated. Sjö (talk) 06:36, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

General MotorsEdit

Need some help over at General Motors. Have and editor that has tagged the article with a neutral point of view tag....but I am not sure what the concern is. All they have metioned is they would like to see death rates and I think they are saying the article reads like an add. I will research the death rates....but not sure about the add thing as the article looks like other big 5 car pages.--Moxy (talk) 03:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

The ignition switch recall and death toll are both mentioned at the bottom with a link to a more detailed page. I think that's perfectly fine for the matter. Sounds like the editor has an axe to grind with GM (and they're not the first). --Vossanova o< 20:23, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Share certificatesEdit

 
coachbuilder Gordon England

A collector of some kind is adding images of old share certificates to articles about members of the industry. Has been doing so for some time. In this particular case see Gordon England (coachbuilder) and France's Austin Seven. There are very many more.

Is this a good thing or cruft? If cruft deprecate or delete on sight? Eddaido (talk) 12:10, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Gordon England (coachbuilder) is an odd one. The article leads with a badge, then a stock certificate, then a picture of a building. Then down at the bottom possibly as an afterthought, the company's actual products. The images are fine, but I'd reverse those priorities. I don't think the stock certificates are cruft, but they should have a low priority. When you have layout problems or too little text to support all the images then you'd want to remove low-priority images. For example, in Minerva (automobile), adding the image exacerbates a MOS:SANDWICHING problem (though sandwiching was already there). Maybe if an article has a gallery at the bottom, the stock thing could go there, but in general we'd want to see images that tell us something distinct about a company. If the stock certificate supports actual article content, then it has more value. We don't need to go out of our way to delete all of these additions, but any that are causing issues should be removed or moved down. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:37, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
So that's just a deprecate? They will always have the legal name of the company concerned on them but after that . . . , for example, what more do we learn from them of Minerva, or of Gordon England's business? Zero. Eddaido (talk) 21:10, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Rolls-RoyceEdit

Rolls-Royce is divided into a complicated set of articles based on its various corporate entities, which lacks a coherent overall history of the company. The Automotive portion is split between Rolls-Royce Limited (1904-1973), Rolls-Royce Motors (1973-1998), Rolls-Royce Motors (1998-Present) and List of Rolls-Royce motor cars (1904-present).

Would it make sense to consolidate Rolls-Royce's history as an automotive brand under one article, similar to the way Lotus and Chrysler are organized? Is this something that members of this project would be interested in tackling or weighing in on? –dlthewave 22:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Those are company history articles, so it's reasonable to split them. So long as we have List of Rolls-Royce motor cars as a complete list, then we're good.
Timeline of Rolls-Royce would be a good topic, if anyone fancies it, as would Timeline of UK aircraft industry (needs to be UK scope, not just GB). Andy Dingley (talk) 12:46, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Bandini deletionsEdit

User:TenPoundHammer has redirected all Bandini automodel pages (example Bandini 1100 (1946) )to main page of Bandini Automobili. What you think? should we restore those pages, there is huge amount of work now "deleted", he hasnt even consulted this group in any way before making such big changes -->Typ932 T·C 09:45, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

The various entries in question have been attracting readers. Even if they had not, being uninteresting to one individual contributor who's having a bad day is not a sufficient reason for deleting entries in this way. That is the route to a withered scope that directly defies the eye-watering ambitions of wikipedia's founders. The issue in this particular case is not the introduction of "redirects" but the fact that it has been done in order to cloak a series of deletions. The failure to discuss or explain is a bizarre discourtesy. The entries need to be reinstated. But once reinstated they also badly need (like 95% of the entries on wikipedia) to be improved. Regards Charles01 (talk) 10:12, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
OK, Bandini is probably not ther best known make but that is no reason why the models should not have their own pages. There is a lot of useful content that has been hidden and they should be reinstated. I have put an objection in to the Speedy Delete of the Category page for Bandini vehicles. Malcolma (talk) 11:15, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Looks like a lot of the material came from the Italian Wikipedia entries. Problem both there and here must be the lack of any sources for the content. Anybody care to add some? Mighty Antar (talk) 12:53, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Bulk revert, discuss, and ANI. Tired of this guy, and this is a regular problem from him. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:02, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_January_13#Category:Bandini_Automobili is egregious. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:05, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Also Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_January_13 Andy Dingley (talk) 14:21, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Redirection of 15+ articles on related topics in a short space of time, without prior discussion, is not how we are supposed to do things. Agreed, it's not the best-known manufacturer, and some of the articles may need work on sourcing, style etc. and some may genuinely not be 'notable' enough, but a blanket removal does not seem like an overall improvement. Eagleash (talk) 13:08, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Also this "11:54, 13 January 2018 RHaworth (talk | contribs) deleted page Category:Bandini vehicles (G6: empty)" at Category:Bandini vehicles is just more entirely predictable bloody awful bad admining, from someone who shouldn't have a mop. Here's a clue, because it might be stating the obvious, but evidently they're not aware of it: empty categories don't just magically appear. Much of the time it's because they've just been emptied deliberately and wrongly, and that (maybe another surprise here?) is that isn't a good reason for speedy deletion. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:12, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Agree with Eagleash. The material looks like it is probably notable. There doesn't seem to be any indication that editors involved with the articles were notified nor was the material retained when the articles were redirected. The articles should be restored then dealt with on a case by case basis. Springee (talk) 17:50, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • I redirected them all because they were all full of overly technical garbage and clearly hadn't been edited at all in over 10 years. I felt that if they were notable on their own, then WP:TNT was the only option. No article should be sitting cold and unedited that long. If you want to unfuck the articles, go for it. My main concern was eliminating rampant misuse of {{Cleanup}}, an effectively meaningless maintenance tag from the olden days. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 19:23, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This is bad behavior. Is it badly sourced? Yes. Is it badly written? Yes. Does it deserve keeping? Yes. SCCA wins confer notability, even if you happen not to be a fan of amateur sports car racing (& I'm not). TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 20:10, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
The articles were so badly written, though, that I didn't see anything that was worth keeping. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 21:17, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
The articles were poorly translated from Italian and at least some of the material originates from the Bandini Register. I wasn't aware the olden days had ended or that unedited articles had a use by date! perhaps replacing {{Cleanup}} with {{Cleanup rewrite}}} or {{technical}} would have been a more constructive option. Mighty Antar (talk) 22:13, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This is a whisker away from ANI as it is. Don't push it. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:15, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Now all articles are marked as too technical. I think they arent too much different than any other car article, if there is too techinical stuff, they are linked to other articles which explains things. Those articles just need references and some cleaning and language editing -->Typ932 T·C 14:04, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
There is nothing technical in any of these articles, beyond the level of something Jeremy Clarkson could understand. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:13, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Complaining that these articles needed work, or even that they were too technically complicated, would have been a valid complaint. What's not acceptable (and is a behavioural problem, not a content problem) is to bulk-blank 18 articles in 5 minutes (so no actual review of each) with descriptions of "not notable", "all technical garbage", "redundant and all technical crap" and "unsourced fanwank". Then to make an invalid WP:CSD#G6 on the resultant empty category (this category is never appropriate for G6), when that category wasn't even valid for WP:CSD#C1 until 7 days had elapsed. This delay isn't there to slow down Hammer's essential cleanup work, but to give other editors an opportunity to disagree - something which he clearly gives no weight to. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of Oldham Athletic A.F.C. (and many other current deletions) too. These deletions are as much an attack on other editors as they are about articles. This is not acceptable. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Road cars in Template:McLarenEdit

An editor has questioned whether road cars should be included in Template:McLaren. Interested editors are invited to participate in the existing discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 09:50, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

AllardEdit

This article about a small business has very little in the way of citations. In recent months more has been added about recent events. How can these contributors be persuaded to provide the kind of confidence in their accuracy that we need? Eddaido (talk) 20:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

  • That article is a mess. I wonder if Eric Corbett knows anything about them. He took Sunbeam Tiger to FA (with a little assistence from me) and Allard is comparing itself to them, putting Ford V8s (flatheads) into light frames like the Tiger. Living in the UK, he might have better access to any library material regarding it. Dennis Brown - 01:35, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Don't be coy Dennis, with a lot of assistance from you. I've done a little bit of work on the Allard Clipper, which fascinated me because it's such an ugly car, and I'm slowly going through and adding articles about other almost forgotten cars, such as the DRK. I can certainly take a look through what material I've got on Allard, and what I can get hold of. Eric Corbett 01:50, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, on both counts. Something said that this was your kind of article, and if anyone could bump it up a notch or two, you could. Actually, it seems quite interesting, and I look forward to reading more information about it. Seems he was a bit of a pioneer, although not financially successful. Dennis Brown - 02:10, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, you think its messy.
Why I wrote, what I want to know is, how to persuade a recent / current contributor with apparently sound knowledge about the business to give everyone confidence in these new contributions. I believe they are all very good. Eddaido (talk) 02:15, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Information that feels wrong and can't be verified via a reference can be deleted. Information that feels right but can't be verified by a reference should have reference tags added (eg {{refimprove}}, {{refimprove section}}, {{cn}}). From my very scant knowledge of Allard, the information seems pretty much correct, so tags are the short term answer. Long term is of course to encourage editors to add references but that's more social engineering rather than applying rules.  Stepho  talk  02:18, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
OK then, I'm asking about social engineering. All you people may be unaware but because I deal in old stuff I often find children / grandchildren of the businesses and particular fanciers adding info. I can force them by reverting but it is very rude and crude. Most of you editors are "social engineers", some rougher than others. Please pull out some expertise on dealing to other editors. Eddaido (talk) 02:22, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
  • What will convince future editors to contribute in a more helpful way is to clean it up, cite it, and bring it up to standards. A clean article encourages clean additions. This is why I asked Eric to help. I've worked with him on two unique GAs and one FA relating to automotive topics, and I would like to take a stab at jumping the quality up. Articles like this get few additions because there are few sources. They didn't exist very long. The topic is interesting enough that it does deserve some serious attention. It will all boil down to what the library in Manchester, UK and my library in NC, USA have to offer. I don't expect to find much WP:RS on the web for this. Dennis Brown - 02:30, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
    • Dennis, I am talking of contributors in very recent days not some bright light, a Nirvana away in the future! How do I explain better? Eric won't have that info. Eddaido (talk) 02:32, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
      • You asked for help, two people who are experienced at providing sources for difficult auto subjects have volunteered. Maybe just wait and see. Dennis Brown - 02:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
        • True, I did ask for help. I didn't expect the question to be completely ignored or is that the kind of "social engineering" I mention above. Very Unhappy Eddaido (talk) 02:46, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
          I'm unhappy too. The Allard story is more complicated than the article suggests, but you don't seem to be interested in that, just about some social engineering experiment. Stuff that for a game of soldiers as we say "oop north", I've got lots of other things to attend to. Eric Corbett 03:05, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
I don't remember. I got to Allard because a few days ago I found this page and emailed User:Mason Loades on 22 January without success. There are a mistake and some more precise ids required on the pictures he uploaded. One of the pictures clearly a Healey he has labelled an Allard. I suspect that these people tend to leave their contributions half expecting them to be wiped off just anxious that Dad / Grandad gets fair treatment by 'history'. Thanks for leaving that message but the lack of response on these occasions unless I simply revert the edits (and that doesn't necessarily work) same with leaving signs about refimprove cite needed etc. Maybe your keyboard has the magic touch. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 03:25, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
          • You asked how to pursued editors in the future to cite better. That isn't exactly possible, except (again) by improving the article to the point that it encourages better quality additions, and encourages stewardship by experienced editors. There is no magic answer on how to get future people to cite better. Dennis Brown - 03:09, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
            • No Dennis, I did not. Please read again. Eddaido (talk) 03:27, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
              • How can these contributors be persuaded to provide the kind of confidence in their accuracy that we need?" and "how to persuade a recent / current contributor with apparently sound knowledge about the business to give everyone confidence in these new contributions." Then you might want to ask more clearly because that sounds like you want more citations, more proof, more "confidence in their accuracy". I don't get your attitude here. Dennis Brown - 12:07, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
                • Others did. Eddaido (talk) 17:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── FWIW, this discussion attracted my attention, & I hope the reorganization isn't out of bounds... TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 21:29, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

  • Bold is always good, any disagreement can be handled on the article talk page. I'm trying to dig up some sources before I start in, and work keeps getting in the way. Dennis Brown - 21:51, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Rfc on reference date format at 'Tesla Model S'Edit

I have started an RFC at Talk:Tesla Model S#RfC about date format in references about whether an article using MDY date format in the text is allowed to have yyyy-mm-dd date format in references or not. There was also discussion in the talk topic just above it at Talk:Tesla Model S#Date format. Please answer there, not here.  Stepho  talk  05:02, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Article mergeEdit

I've listed these four articles Panel van, Panel van (Australia), Panel truck and Sedan delivery for a possible merge with the discussion taking place here for any interested editors. Shinerunner (talk) 20:26, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Audi Motor AssemblyEdit

I am currently working through de:WP articles created by the (in Germany) banned author TheAutoJunkie who wrote a lot of nonsense in German Wikipedia. Some hoaxes have already been deleted. Now it is time for Audi Motor Assembly. With the exception of the German and the English Wikipedia articles (both written by TheAutoJunkie) I cannot see any evidence that there ever has been such a company. There is and was distribution of Audi models in Japan, but more? There are several possibilities:

  • the article is a hoax
  • the article is highly exaggerated, e.g. maybe much less cars have been produced and/or by other partners
  • the name is faulty (and is in Japanese)

Is there somebody who can help? Thanks in advance. --Roxedl (talk) 12:00, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

With respect, most of the text in this article concerns things alleged to have taken place in Japan, so surely the place to ask is on Japanese Wikipedia? Plan B - is there anyone reading this who is able to read and write in Japanese? Success Charles01 (talk) 12:29, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
If there was some way for anyone not speaking Japanese to navigate through jp:WP, surely. On the other hand side I assume the English community is really versed in Automobile history (and not interested in nesting a hoax) … however, the same questions have already been raised in the Japan portal of the German Wikipedia. --Roxedl (talk) 12:58, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
A (very) quick Google reveals virtually nothing. There is a very similar article at Wikia here. One is likely copied from the other or written by the same disingenuous editor. The supposed 'official website' in the Wikipedia page seems to be just an advert for current finance deals, even having the date Monday 12 February. I have removed it. Overall I think it is at best 'inaccurate'. Eagleash (talk) 13:44, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
The article is a pretty blatant hoax in my view, and I've nominated it for a speedy deletion as such. To take just one point, there is no VW/AUDI assembly plant with a VIN code of 9. Eric Corbett 14:47, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Good catch! I removed few mentions of AMA which TheAutoJunkie had added to other articles.
Interestingly, a similar entry was added to List of Volkswagen Group factories by an IP user in 2009. It refers to a joint venture between Volkswagen and Toyota/Hino which produced the Volkswagen Taro and does not appear to be a hoax, but production took place in Germany, not Tokyo. Another user changed it to AMA in 2014. –dlthewave 22:27, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your speedy reaction. The article in the German WP will be sppedy-deleted soon, too. You should consider to ban the author User:TheAutoJunkie (he is banned in German WP), only to avoid any kind of re-activation here. His last edits in the en:WP date from 2014). Pls also have a look a the articles he created or edited. This user created some hoaxes in Germany, and much false information (see DiVolvo - already corrected - or Cooper Motor Corporation, not yet corrected). --Roxedl (talk) 07:12, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progressEdit

A move discussion which may be of interest to participants of this WikiProject is currently taking place at Talk:Corvette (disambiguation)#Requested move 9 February 2018. Dohn joe (talk) 18:13, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Tokyo TradingEdit

A suspected hoax again, this is the Bloomberg entry. Unfortunately no VIN number hint this time. Anybody can help? --Roxedl (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

  • I removed the external link, which was a ransomware "Microsoft Alert" page, after being redirected. Dennis Brown - 11:50, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
  • It's another hoax. There is a VIN clue, as the article says that Tokyo Trading has its own VIN assembly code, but it doesn't. Tokyo Trading doesn't appear in the list of Japanese WIM codes. Also, the car pictured in the lead was produced by Toyota Motor Corporation, not Tokyo Trading. Do I need to CSD this Dennis, or can you just get rid of it now? Eric Corbett 11:56, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. In the meantime the German article has been speedy deleted. --Roxedl (talk) 12:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Deleted. Thanks for the heads up and supporting info, both of you. Dennis Brown - 14:46, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Baijah AutomotiveEdit

This article is a translation of an article of the German WP (same author as above for Audi Motor Assembly and Tokyo Trading), but the article there has been deleted about nine years ago. Iwas not involved in this deletion and so I caanot give more details, but you can be rather sure that if there had been really an assembly process, it would not have been deleted. Surely not a case for speedy deletion, but a deletion to consider. --Roxedl (talk) 20:01, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move for Rolls-Royce Wraith (2013)Edit

Hello Project Automobiles,

this requested move (intiated by me) would benefit from your input. Artix Kreiger (talk) 19:23, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

@Artix Kreiger: Please put me right if I have it wrong but there has only been one model of Rolls-Royce named Rolls-Royce Wraith - this particular model. Eddaido (talk) 20:13, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

@Eddaido:, Rolls-Royce Wraith (1938). Artix Kreiger (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

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