Talk:Peroz I

Untitled

from http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/hephthalites.html

473-479 Ephthalites conquer Sogdiana, driving the Kidarites westwards. Next conquering Khotan and Kashgar (in the Tarim Basin).

484 Firuz initiates new war against the Ephthalites which fails miserably.

486 Firuz' heir Kubad takes refuge with Ephthalites following a coup.

from http://www.magyarsag.org/chh.htm

484 North east Persia. War between the Huns and Persians during the rule of Sufra.

485 The Avar Huns moves west after growing pressure from Persian and Turks.

Any comments?

(These comments were added by user 86.138.184.12 in August 2006)

Questions

No comments, only more question marks. From the article you should conclude that Balash was crowned twice, that Spain (Iberia) and Albania were part of Iran, and where is it explained that the king of the Hephthalites once was a friend of Peroz, save for a short spell of peace? There's a difference between Hephthalites, Huns and Kushans, but that's not very clear here. I think the whole article should be rewritten by someone who is more knowledgeable about Sassanian history. Soczyczi 19:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

By the way, the coin looks gold, but is it indeed a gold coin? I thought these are extremely rare and also smaller than this one. Soczyczi 20:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This is a poorly written article, and should be rewritten. As written, it is more an eulogy than an encyclopedia article. However, "Iberia" refers to an ancient region in the Caucasus, not the Iberian peninsula, and is correct as is. An appropriate hyperlink is needed though for those who will not be familiar with this usage. On the other hand, some of the existing hyperlinks lead to some really weird places-try clicking on "trickle", for instance. A hyperlink to "Ephthalites" would be another example of a badly needed link. A general audience is simply not going to have any idea about the relation, or non-relation, between Huns and White Huns, or any of the regional references made. Indeed, one would in principle like to see hyperlinks to economic, cultural, and military relevant articles. References are also needed for an article such as this, as is some sort of statement about what is known, what is not known, and what is speculated and by who. It would also be really helpful to incorporate a map. Preferably, the article should be rewritten by a specialist in Sassanid history. In summary, what is wanted here is history, not mythology. Nonetheless, "C" for effort to the author.----

Copy edit comments and queries

• Martindale is cited but is not in the bibliography.
• Several works in the bibliography are not cited.

Gog the Mild (talk) 22:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild: I'm assuming there is a specific tool that allows me to see the works in the bibliography that are not cited? --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:05, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Yep. I wish I could tell you what it was, but I probably cut and pasted it into a sub-file three years ago have forgotten where I found it. You could enquire at the Help Desk.

The works in question are Dąbrowa and Daryaee et al. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:11, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Should I copy edit and comment on this as if its ultimate destination were GAN or FAC? IMO, it has the potential to go to FAC. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Now when you say it like that.. a FAC doesn't sound too bad. FAC it is then, but then I'm gonna need a extra day to add more material if you don't mind. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:03, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Of course not. Take your time. There is no rush, Wikipedia isn't going anywhere. Copy editing is always like trying to hit a moving target anyway - I am quite aware that once I am done there are likely to be many subsequent changes. Give me a ping when you are ready for me to restart. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:44, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Got it, thanks. I'll be sure to notify you when I'm done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:21, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild: I think it's good to go now, I'm too burnt out to continue lol. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:41, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

• "The name had already been in use by members of the Sasanian family a few centuries before". It would be better to either give the actual number of centuries, or state the century in which it was in use.

Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

• "Peroz, with the support of the powerful Mihranid magnate Raham Mihran, fled to the northeastern part of the empire and began raising an army" and "Peroz fled to the Hephthalites and convinced their king to aid him against his brother." Seem to duplicate the same information and, to a degree, contradict each other. Possibly run them together?

Oh yeah, I'll see what I can do. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Expanded that section, should make a lot more sense now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

• There are a number of duplinks - do you have the tool for detecting them?

Yep, fixed. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

• "The previous year, Iran suffered from a severe drought". Which previous year? It would be clearer to just give the year it happened.

Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

• IMO the extended quote in "Third war with the Hephthalites and death" falls foul of MOS:QUOTE "While quotations are an indispensable part of Wikipedia, try not to overuse them. Using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style ... It is generally recommended that content be written in Wikipedia editors' own words. Consider paraphrasing quotations into plain and concise text when appropriate".

Not sure I understand. What would be a better alternative? --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Delete the quote and run on the introductory sentence with something like 'The contemporary Armenian historian Ghazar Parpetsi highlights the opposition amongst his men towards the campaign, stating that the Iranian forces were demoralised at the prospect of facing the Hepthalites to the point of near mutiny.' That is just off my head to give you the idea.

Oh I now see I completely misread what you said, somehow my brain didn't register the 'quote' bit lol. Cheers, I'll do that then. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:54, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

• It could do with more Wikilinks. Eg archaeological, numismatic, chronicles and sigillographic. There are more.
• "War with the Kidarites". Arguably too much detail on the Huns - the article is not about them. I am loath to copy edit it down without permission though. I have trimmed anyway. Revert if you wish.

That's fine by me, I just wanted to make sure that the readers somewhat know who these obscure people were, and that they weren't a band of unorganized nomads as popularly assumed. Seems like I've overdone that a tad. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 21:18, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

More

• If this is headed for FAC, then "The {{lang}} template and its variants support all ISO 639 language codes, correctly identifying the language and automatically italicizing for you. Please use these templates rather than just manually italicizing non-English material. (See WP:Manual of Style/Accessibility Other languages for more information.)" applies.

Like this I assume? [1] --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:51, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Yep.

• "to Armenia, while another army led by a certain Mihran of the Mihranid family was sent to Iberia. During the summer, the Iranian general Shapur Mihran inflicted a defeat". Are the two "Mihran"s the same person? Ah, reading on I see the relationship. This probably isn't the best way of explaining that. Do you agree? If not - fine. If so, do you want to tweak it, or should I have a go?

Yeah sure feel free to have a go. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:51, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Done.

Gog the Mild (talk) 18:23, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

• Is there a link for "epagomenal"?

Not that I know of. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:09, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

• Is Iranian calendar the best link, rather than, say, Zoroastrian calendar?

Yes and no. The Iranian calendar was at that the Zoroastrian one from what I've understood. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:09, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

• Link crenellation.

Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:09, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

OK. That's me done. Definitely FAC potential here. My suggestion is that you put it in for GAN, then for ACR at MilHist. If it does go for ACR, give me a ping and I'll give it another look over then. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:54, 16 November 2020 (UTC)