Talk:National Heritage List (Australia)

Latest comment: 4 years ago by Zppix in topic Requested move 2 July 2020

Notes

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I want the list to look at little more like List of World Heritage Sites in China. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:17, 4 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

File:HMAS Sydney (AWM 301473) cropped.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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None of the listings links in the article work. Peter Bell (talk) 05:28, 27 July 2013 (UTC)Reply

I have fixed them (they had consistently renamed the URLs) but with one exception. I could not fix #4 Old Great North Road. I checked on the Australian National Heritage website and their link to Old Great North Road is also broken. I have sent them an email pointing this out and hope I will get a reply with the updated URL, so I can add it here. So all but one should be fixed. Kerry (talk) 06:30, 27 July 2013 (UTC)Reply
Prompt and efficient response - well done! Peter Bell (talk) 03:38, 28 July 2013 (UTC)Reply
I got a reply to my email and the Govt department has fixed the problem and the link for Old Great North Road is now working again. So all listing links should be working again. Kerry (talk) 02:32, 5 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

How many?

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Based on text assertion of there being 119, i put that in as the total count into the table, as here:

State/territory Number of places
Australian Capital Territory 5
New South Wales 35
Northern Territory 4
Queensland 13
South Australia 8
Tasmania 11
Victoria 32
Western Australia 15
Total 119

But in fact 119 is not the total of other numbers. Perhaps there are duplications, i.e. items that overlap boundaries? Then a row for duplications' subtraction needs to be included, with a footnote itemizing the ones that are duplicated. What about the several overseas ones? And the big table doesn't go up to 119, what gives with that? --Doncram (talk) 01:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

It think it's fair to say "it's complicated". This is what I have in my spreadsheet which was webscraped earlier this year from the Australia Heritage Database (117 entries, sorted below by State). Some of the national parks cross state boundaries so may be in more than one state, but the AHD lists only one state for it (e.g. Gondwana Rainforests of Australia is listed as NSW), which might be an underlying database limitation. It can be argued whether Norfolk Island and Lord Howe Island should or shouldn't be included NSW. Or what to do with shipwrecks, etc. There are 3 further listings with the status ("Within a listed place") See the 2nd table for these. The mapping between the National Heritage entries and Wikipedia articles tends not to be 1-to-1 either (take a look at Gondwana Rainforests as an example which fans out to many Wikipedia articles). In a word, messy! :-) Kerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

OfficialTitle StreetAddress Suburb State
Australian Academy of Science Building Gordon Street Canberra City ACT
Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves The Alpine Way Thredbo Village ACT
Australian War Memorial and the Memorial Parade Anzac Parade Campbell ACT
High Court - National Gallery Precinct Parkes Place Parkes ACT
Old Parliament House and Curtilage King George Terrace Parkes ACT
Mawsons Huts and Mawsons Huts Historic Site Dumont D'Urville Station Australian Antarctic Territory
Heard and McDonald Islands Heard and McDonald Islands Heard and McDonald Islands
HMS Sirius Shipwreck Kingston Norfolk Island
Kingston and Arthurs Vale Historic Area Quality Row Kingston Norfolk Island
Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves The Alpine Way Thredbo Village NSW
Bondi Beach Campbell Parade Bondi Beach NSW
Brewarrina Aboriginal Fish Traps (Baiames Ngunnhu) Doyle Street Brewarrina NSW
City of Broken Hill Silver City Highway Broken Hill NSW
Cockatoo Island Rozelle NSW
Cyprus Hellene Club - Australian Hall 150-152 Elizabeth Street Sydney NSW
First Government House Site 41 Bridge Street Sydney NSW
Gondwana Rainforests of Australia Lismore NSW
Hyde Park Barracks Macquarie Street Sydney NSW
Kamay Botany Bay: botanical collection sites Captain Cook Drive Kurnell NSW
Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park, Lion, Long and Spectacle Island Nature Reserves Ku-ring-gai Chase Road Bobbin Head NSW
Kurnell Peninsula Headland Cape Solander Drive Kurnell NSW
Lord Howe Island Group Lord Howe Island NSW
Moree Baths and Swimming Pool Anne Street Moree NSW
Myall Creek Massacre and Memorial Site Bingara Delungra Road Myall Creek via Bingara NSW
North Head - Sydney North Head Scenic Drive Manly NSW
Old Government House and the Government Domain O'Connell Street Parramatta NSW
Old Great North Road The Old Great Northern Road Wisemans Ferry NSW
Parramatta Female Factory and Institutions Precinct Fleet Street Parramatta NSW
Royal National Park and Garawarra State Conservation Area Sir Bertram Stevens Drive Audley NSW
Snowy Mountains Scheme Snowy Mountains Highway Cabramurra NSW
Sydney Harbour Bridge Bradfield Highway Dawes Point - Milsons Point NSW
Sydney Opera House 2 Circular Quay East Sydney NSW
The Greater Blue Mountains Area Greater Western Highway Katoomba NSW
Warrumbungle National Park John Renshaws Parkway Coonabarabran NSW
Willandra Lakes Region Arumpo Mungo National Park Road Robinvale NSW
Hermannsburg Historic Precinct Larapinta Drive Hermannsburg NT
Kakadu National Park Arnhem Highway Darwin NT
Uluru - Kata Tjuta National Park Lasseter Highway Yulara NT
Wave Hill Walk Off Route Buchanan Highway Kalkarindji NT
Wurrwurrwuy Yirrkala NT
HMAS Sydney II and HSK Kormoran Shipwreck Sites Carnarvon off Western Australia
Australian Fossil Mammal Sites (Riversleigh) Riversleigh via Gregory Downs QLD
Dinosaur Stampede National Monument Winton-Jundah Road Winton QLD
Fraser Island Eurong Road Eurong QLD
Glass House Mountains National Landscape Beerburrum Woodford Road Beerburrum QLD
Gondwana Rainforests of Australia Lismore QLD
Great Artesian Basin Springs: Elizabeth Springvale Road Warra QLD
Great Barrier Reef Townsville QLD
Ngarrabullgan Mount Mulligan Road Dimbulah QLD
QANTAS Hangar Longreach Landsborough Highway Longreach QLD
Tree of Knowledge and curtilage Oak Street Barcaldine QLD
Wet Tropics of Queensland Cairns QLD
Australian Cornish Mining Sites: Burra Barrier Highway Burra SA
Australian Cornish Mining Sites: Moonta Verran Terrace Moonta SA
Australian Fossil Mammal Sites (Naracoorte) Naracoorte SA
Ediacara Fossil Site - Nilpena Parachilna SA
Great Artesian Basin Springs: Witjira-Dalhousie Dalhousie ruin via Oodnadatta SA
Koonalda Cave Old Eyre Highway Cook SA
South Australian Old and New Parliament Houses North Terrace Adelaide SA
The Adelaide Park Lands and City Layout South Terrace Adelaide SA
The Burke, Wills, King and Yandruwandha National Heritage Place Birdsville Track Innamincka SA
Brickendon Estate Woolmers Lane Longford TAS
Cascades Female Factory 8,16,18 Degraves Street South Hobart TAS
Cascades Female Factory Yard 4 North Symes Street South Hobart TAS
Coal Mines Historic Site Coal Mine Road Saltwater River TAS
Darlington Probation Station French Farm Coastal Route Darlington TAS
Jordan River levee site Andrew Street Brighton TAS
Macquarie Island Hobart TAS
Port Arthur Historic Site Arthur Highway Port Arthur TAS
Recherche Bay (North East Peninsula) Area Southport TAS
Richmond Bridge Bridge Street Richmond TAS
Tasmanian Wilderness Strathgordon TAS
Western Tasmania Aboriginal Cultural Landscape Arthur River Road Arthur River TAS
Woolmers Estate Woolmers Lane Longford TAS
Abbotsford Convent 1 St Heliers Street Abbotsford VIC
Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves The Alpine Way Thredbo Village VIC
Bonegilla Migrant Camp - Block 19 76 Bonegilla Road Bonegilla VIC
Budj Bim National Heritage Landscape - Mt Eccles Lake Condah Area Mt Eccles Road Macarthur VIC
Budj Bim National Heritage Landscape - Tyrendarra Area Tyrendarra VIC
Castlemaine Diggings National Heritage Park Chewton Road Castlemaine VIC
Coranderrk 19 Barak Lane Healesville VIC
Echuca Wharf 52 Murray Esplanade Echuca VIC
Eureka Stockade Gardens Eureka Street Eureka VIC
Flemington Racecourse 448 Epsom Road Flemington VIC
Flora Fossil Site - Yea Limestone Road Yea VIC
Glenrowan Heritage Precinct Siege Street Glenrowan VIC
Grampians National Park (Gariwerd) Grampians Road Halls Gap VIC
Great Ocean Road and Scenic Environs Great Ocean Road Apollo Bay VIC
High Court of Australia (former) 450 Little Bourke Street Melbourne VIC
HMVS Cerberus Black Rock VIC
ICI Building (former) 1-4 Nicholson Street East Melbourne VIC
Melbourne Cricket Ground Brunton Avenue Jolimont VIC
Melbourne's Domain Parkland and Memorial Precinct St Kilda Road Melbourne VIC
Mount William Stone Hatchet Quarry Powells Track Lancefield VIC
Murtoa No 1 Grain Store Wimmera Highway Murtoa VIC
Newman College 887 Swanston Street Parkville VIC
Point Cook Air Base Aviation Road Point Cook VIC
Point Nepean Defence Sites and Quarantine Station Area Defence Road Portsea VIC
Queen Victoria Market Victoria Street Melbourne VIC
Rippon Lea House and Garden 192 Hotham Street Elsternwick VIC
Royal Exhibition Building National Historic Place Victoria Street Carlton VIC
Sidney Myer Music Bowl Linlithgow Avenue Melbourne VIC
Batavia Shipwreck Site and Survivor Camps Area 1629 - Houtman Abrolhos Wallabi Group via Houtman Abrolhos WA
Cheetup Rock Shelter Esperance WA
Dampier Archipelago (including Burrup Peninsula) Karratha Dampier Road Dampier WA
Dirk Hartog Landing Site 1616 - Cape Inscription Area Dirk Hartog Island WA
Fitzgerald River National Park South Coast Highway Ravensthorpe WA
Fremantle Prison (former) 1 The Terrace Fremantle WA
Goldfields Water Supply Scheme, Western Australia Mundaring to Kalgoorlie WA
Lesueur National Park Coorow Green Head Road Green Head WA
Porongurup National Park Mount Barker Porongurup Road Mount Barker WA
Purnululu National Park Halls Creek WA
Shark Bay, Western Australia Denham Hamelin Road Denham WA
Stirling Range National Park Chester Pass Road Cranbrook WA
The Ningaloo Coast Ningaloo Road Ningaloo WA
The West Kimberley Great Northern Highway Broome WA
Wilgie Mia Aboriginal Ochre Mine Wilgie Mia Road Wilgie Mia Aboriginal Reserve via Cue WA

Within a listed place

OfficialTitle StreetAddress Suburb State
Bondi Surf Pavilion Queen Elizabeth Drive Bondi Beach NSW
Quarantine Station and Surrounds Defence Road Portsea VIC
Wet Tropics World Heritage Area (Indigenous Values) Cairns QLD

As the editor who laid out the table initially and has added many of the new items, I may be able to answer some of your questions.

  1. The reason the "big table" shows only 97 is because several items were listed as a parent group - Australian Alps, Australian Convict Sites, Gondwana Rainforests, Budj Bim etc. If consensus is to number them individually, happy to do that.
  2. are not part of any state (or the two main territories of NT and ACT and should be listed separately in the table as "other territories" Macquarie Island is legally Tasmania and Lord Howe Island is legally NSW.
  • Other than Australian Alps, Gondwana Forests and Convict Sites (which are "groupings" rather than individual sites) no site is shared between two states or territories.

Table should look like:

State/territory Number of places
Australian Capital Territory ?
New South Wales ?
Northern Territory ?
Queensland ?
South Australia ?
Tasmania ?
Victoria ?
Western Australia ?
Other territories ?
Total 119

--User:Mattinbgn

References

Hey, glad you two are on the ball, like you were just waiting to respond to some comment here, waiting for a very long time.... :)
Seriously, I do think it is worth making the table make sense. And handling the "complications" of duplicates is not too hard, I say from seeing it done very elaborately in the system of list-articles of U.S. NRHP places, in the top-level List of RHPs and in the state-level ones like List of RHPs in MA, and all the way down. It is even handled elaborately in the non-mainspace worklist tracking at wp:NRHPPROGRESS where i wouldn't have bothered, myself. For this relatively short list (not 90,000!) it doesn't change very fast, can be handled, i.e. by putting in specific footnotes to a "duplications" line, with our best knowledge. I do think making the table go to 119 rather than 97, dropping or handling that grouping some other way, would be better. Do let's, please? I will try to make some edits reflecting both your comments here, please do step in to fix further. --Doncram (talk) 03:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
Go for it. If my full spreadsheet is any use to you (that's just a couple of columns above), I can share it with you by some means (email, Google Drive, etc). Kerry (talk) 03:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
Okay, i jumped ahead, trying to edit in the mainspace, at least setting up format for the duplications row and footnotes (but please understand I am sure the numbers are wrong for the moment.) But ... maybe ... it's complicated? I am confused about the Gondwana Rainforests and the Convict Sites items, say, are each of the rows within those groups a separate Heritage List listing? Maybe the overall Gondwana Rainforests spans across NSW and Qld, but maybe no individual item does? So maybe the summary table confusion will go away when the big table gets renumbered. It probably is good to keep some indication of the groupings, assuming those are indeed meaningful, in the big table. I do respect the creator and previous editors' good efforts here. --Doncram (talk) 04:00, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
Hmm, maybe the big table should count to 97 as it does, and maybe then the smaller table should also total to 97, rather than 119. The Gondwana Rainforest listing linked from several rows, seems to be one Heritage List listing, is that not correct? It is okay by me to say the truth is that there is one big listing in the table, but we happen to want to have smaller rows within that listing which link to components of that one listing. And I guess Gondwana Rainforest as a whole does span across NSW and Qld (and even some of its components do too), so there does need to be one note for a duplication about it. --Doncram (talk) 04:09, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
Does it start to look like:

As of 28 September 2017, the Australian National Heritage List comprised 97 heritage places as follows:[1]

State/territory Number of places
Australian Capital Territory 3
New South Wales 22
Northern Territory 5
Queensland 12
South Australia 9
Tasmania 7
Victoria 27
Western Australia 16
Other territories 4[2]
(duplicates): (5)[3]
Total: 97

References

  1. ^ "Search: National Heritage List". Australian Heritage Database. Deaprtment of the Environment and Energy, Australian Government. Retrieved 28 September 2017.
  2. ^ Heard and McDonald Island, 2 on Norfolk Island and 1 in Australian Antarctic Territory
  3. ^ The following historic resources are included within multiple state lists:
    • Australian Alps (NSW and Queensland)
    • Gondwana Rainforests of Australia (NSW and Qld)
    • Convict Sites (New South Wales, Tasmania, Western Australia)
    • The Burke, Wills, King and Yandruwandha National Heritage Place (Qld, SA)
In that, the 22 for NSW is a count of 22 distinct nos. in the big table, including G.Rainforest as one, and Queensland's 12 is a count of 12 distinct nos. also including G.Rainforest. And similarly for other overlaps.
Again I am not sure if these counts are right, or if they total up properly, but this may be close-ish? --Doncram (talk) 04:28, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
I think this does total up properly now, to 97.
Another possible change would be to combine the Gondana Rainforest rows into one big row spanning multiple subrows, and have just one number for it. That might interfere with sortability of the big table. I have never myself created a table like that. An example is List of governors' residences in the United States which has 3 subrows for Alabama for example, and is not sortable. I don't have a strong opinion about this; I mainly want to make the counts make sense for readers! --Doncram (talk) 04:51, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
Never mind about "one big row with multiple subrows", y'all have that implemented already. I wasn't aware that this could be done and still be sorted, the way this splits the multiple subrows for "4", upon sorting, repeating the "4" for each one. However you did this is maybe something for me to try to take back to the List of governors' residences in the United States article and others....okay and I just did take it back, making that one's table sortable now too. Thanks! --Doncram (talk) 05:43, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

new proposal

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Sorry I am slow to come up to speed here. Per the Australian Convict Sites article, it "is a World Heritage property consisting of 11 remnant penal sites originally built within the British Empire during the 18th and 19th centuries on fertile Australian coastal strips at Sydney, Tasmania, Norfolk Island, and Fremantle; now representing '...the best surviving examples of large-scale convict transportation and the colonial expansion of European powers through the presence and labour of convicts.' These properties were all individually included on the Australian National Heritage List before inclusion on the World Heritage list." [emphasis added]

And there seems to be 117 or 119 or so places officially reported by the government as constituting the "Australia's National Heritage List", as here (linked from this article).

So it seems to me the big table should number to 117 or 119 or whatever is the current number, not 97, and the small table should then conform to that. I think the commonality of the 11 penal sites making up one World Heritage Site listing should be indicated by color coding and/or by asterisks or other indications. I'm not saying this is the best example anywhere, but I am familiar with National Register of Historic Places listings in Syracuse, New York using both color-coding of the number column and using asterisk-type indications, supported by a key, to indicate commonalities of a couple types. Hmm, there are designated colors for World Heritage Sites set up in wikipedia already, in color schemes shown at wp:HSITES, and a color is there for Australia National Heritage List too. So why not use those to color the narrow first column of numbers, i.e. use the light brown for regular rows and the specific shade of yellow for the rows that are part of World Heritage Sites? I suppose one could use symbols to denote which WHS site applies, as done in the Syracuse list, for the several WHS specific sites. Or the current way of stating the WHS name in each row could suffice, without setting up symbols. Perhaps a separate narrow column could be used to indicate the WHS sites and to make the list sortable by these. From multiple rows being used for each of them, I am figuring that each of the following is a WHS site, is that right?: Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves, Australian Convict Sites, Australian Cornish Mining Sites, Australian Fossil Mammal Sites, Budj Bim National Heritage Landscape, Gondwana Rainforests of Australia. Another question which could be revisited is presentation order, should the list be presented in alphabetical order of Australia's names. Would it be okay for me to try to do some or all of this stuff? --Doncram (talk) 20:26, 11 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Absolutely happy for you to go ahead with that proposal. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 00:00, 12 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 2 July 2020

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved per consensus (non-admin closure) Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 18:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)Reply


Australian National Heritage ListNational Heritage List (Australia) – Makes the name clearer - its name is not prefixed by "Australian". Laterthanyouthink (talk) 04:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)Reply



The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.