Talk:Mariko Aoki phenomenon

Use of the word "desire"

The article isn't clear whether the phenomena is meant as "the person needs to defecate because their body's telling them to" or as "the person would like to defecate, but does not necessarily need to".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.34.187.154 (talk • contribs)

Perhaps urge? --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:59, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Those who are affected by the phenomena seem to more or less commonly have an urge a bowel movement. One of them has so much anxiety that he/she cannot even go shopping for books! (Hon no zasshi (41): 5, 1985.) --GU9udoy6Kg (talk) 03:14, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

• GU9udoy6Kg, I'd like for you to explain why you put David Ulin's The Lost Art of Reading in this article. For now, I'm removing it, since I have a nagging suspicion that the only thing there is some passing reference to something only vaguely related, on page 19. Drmies (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

  The reason why I put the reference in this article is too complicated to explain exactly in English since my English is so poor. Please forgive me for using Japanese.

  • 書店で便意を催すこの現象は日本においてはある程度の知名度があります。
  • 一方で日本国外ではこの現象は有名ではありません。
  • ひょっとすると書店で便意を催すという問題は日本人特有のものかもしれない、と信じられてきました。
  • しかし2012年4月29日の東京新聞[1]によると、少なくとも米国ではこの問題を共有する者が存在することに触れています。
  • この東京新聞によると『本の雑誌』の発行人である浜本茂は、米国の文芸担当記者であるDavid Ulin'sの著書であるThe Lost Art of Readingの中で「書店の便意」について言及があることに驚いた、とあります。
  • 実際、私（GU9udoy6Kg）が、The Lost Art of Readingの日本語訳である『それでも、読書をやめない理由』を調べたところ、38頁に「書店に入ったときに訪れる、奇妙な身体的反応くらいのものだ。あのときも、腸が動いて血が体中を駆けめぐった」という記述を確認しています。
  • 青木まりこ現象の名付けの親である浜本氏が、米国の書籍を紹介したという事実は、「青木まりこ現象は日本人特有の現象である」という固定観念に反するものであり、特筆性があると判断しました。
  • この英語版ウィキペディアにおいても、この特筆性は担保されるものと私は確信しております。

  It is much appreciated if someone would translate my explanation into English. Thank you for your kindness. --GU9udoy6Kg (talk) 17:02, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Translation follows:

• The Mariko Aoki phenomenon is somewhat well known in Japan.
• In contrast, outside of Japan it is entirely unknown.
• I believed this phenomenon was restricted to just Japanese.
• But according to the Tokyo Shinbun article of April 29, 2012, there apparently is someone in the United States that has touched on the phenomenon.
• The publisher of "Hon no Zasshi" Shigeru Hamamoto mentioned that there was a passage suggesting it in The Lost Art of Reading.
• Actually I, GU9udoy6Kg, read the Japanese translation of that book and on Page 38, it states "When I enter a bookstore, I am beset by a strange sensation. Even then, my bowels shifted and blood coursed through my body".
• That Hamamoto found such a passage goes against any notion this phenomenon could be exclusive to Japanese.
• I believe in English Wikipedia this reference in passing should be retained.

End translation.

Translating this was a waste of my time, and I don't think this oblique reference in The Lost Art of Reading should be tied into this nonsensical urban legend. Jun Kayama 20:21, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• I have the book in my office and looked at it yesterday. It mentions a childhood memory of going to a bookstore and feeling the sphincter tighten, or something like that. It's hardly the same, and if a cause can be assigned from context, it's the excitement of seeing so many books. Thanks Jun Kayama, Drmies (talk) 15:06, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Translating the Japanese page into English

Despite being dismissed wholesale as an "urban legend" in the English article (current as of the time of this post), this is a fascinating and valid topic whose original Japanese article is extensive and warrants exposure in more languages. I intend to work on translating key parts of the original article into English, bit by bit. I'm a newbie at Wikipedia editing so all are welcome to contribute and point me in the right direction. Leaf of knowledge (talk) 08:54, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

That's great. If you are new to Wikipedia, I would suggest taking the time first to read through the policy concerning the need for material in Wikipedia articles to be verifiable and make sure that the important parts added are supported by reliable sources. Note that they don't have to be in English. --DAJF (talk) 13:10, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks DAJF. On the verifiability/sources point, do we get around any such flaws in the original Japanese article by making it clear that the English article is (at least to begin with) just a translation? --Leaf of knowledge (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

No. Text needs to be properly sourced in its own right. --DAJF (talk) 23:56, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Blade?

The Blade of the Northern Lights, is this real? EEng 19:39, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

In the same way that fan death is, apparently. Can't claim any firsthand experience. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:47, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Maybe it's caused by people reading on the toilet. Make that illegal, and problem solved. EEng 04:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

March 2021: Ridiculously long article

It is approaching 70,000 bytes, and seems to be a compilation rather than an encyclopedic distillation. In fact, it seems to be trying to answer the question of whether the phenomenon is real and if so, what causes it. The total lack of restraint in compiling this "pile of writing" includes the failure to differentiate the types of publications which publish about the phenomenon. What may be an urban myth is described as a medical condition. I recommend a total cleanup and condensation down to fewer than 10,000 bytes,--Quisqualis (talk) 20:48, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

It's a causally complex but valid phenomenon experienced and reported in countries outside Japan (for example at the 13 min mark of this Australian podcast: https://www.writerscentre.com.au/blog/ep-350/); the concept just happens to have been named and popularized in Japan and not, say, the US or UK due to a combination of factors including stark differences in cultural taboos (e.g. bowel related words and topics are not taboo for public discourse in Japan like they are in the West). Yes, the Japanese article being translated here is probably too long in proportion to the significance of its content. Once the translation is complete in the next year or so and the full shape of the article is clear to those reading it in English, me or someone else can try winnowing it down.Leaf of knowledge (talk) 05:21, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Leaf of knowledge, I see that more than 80% of the content was added by you. Any chance you might take the time to properly format your references?

Many of them are formatted as wikilinks that don't go to anything. (See refs #73 to 138 as examples) And from the Somatic marker hypothesis section down, you didn't use ref tags at all.

Of the formatted refs, I randomly machine-translated a few:

• Ref #48 Web page: "Is that really true?"　I asked a girl who works the truth of "I suddenly feel a sense of convenience at a bookstore".
• Ref #37 Web page: "Constipation women's must-see!? I tried to open a girls' party in a certain place"
• Ref #72 Web page: "Why go to a bookstore and hold it?"

These are not references to reliable sources. Most refs lack sufficient information for anyone to verify the content. Schazjmd (talk) 21:20, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks like someone has cleaned up the article. Sorry for letting the translation process drag on too long and leaving the formatting etc. to others. I guess a separate website/blog/book would be a preferable medium for sharing the more meandering thinking on this topic. Leaf of knowledge (talk) 00:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC)