Talk:MLS Cup 1997

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:MLS Cup '96 which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:16, 21 December 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbm1058 (talk • contribs)

Resources

• Season summaries: League, DC United, Colorado
  • Results: Colorado
• Previews: NY Times, AP, Baltimore
  • Washington Times (October 23, 1997): 200 tickets sold to fans in Denver for away allotment
    • Attendance record at RFK Stadium (Tribune/wire)
• Recaps: NY Times, Washington Post, Baltimore, Philadelphia, AP/Helena
  • Original recap from MLSnet
  • Baltimore mentions 50 fans treated for minor injuries due to a railing collapse at RFK Stadium during celebrations
• MLS Cup Moments: Adrian Paz, Jamie Moreno, Marcelo Balboa, Tony Sanneh

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:MLS Cup 1997/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 13:03, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Comments

• Given the size of the article, I would expect to see no more than three paras (see MOS:LEAD).
  • Pared down to three.
• "multiple competitions" what were these? I genuinely don't know much about MLS. I know, for instance, in England you can be in Europa Cup/Champions League, the FA Cup, the League Cup and the league itself. What's MLS got on this level?
  • The U.S. Open Cup (which has run annually since 1914) and CONCACAF Champions' Cup were there to add congestion to D.C.'s schedule.
• "a losing record" this terminology is unknown to me, is there a link? I mean, finishing fourth sounds pretty damn good, but to consider that from a "losing record"?? I dunno.
  • Added a link. Generally refers to having more losses than wins (which is unusual for a playoff entrant, but MLS had 8 out of 10 teams entering back then).
• " RFK Stadium" put this in parantheses after the first proper usage so those of us who don't know anything about RFK don't get confused.
  • Switched to using the short form (which is far more common) in prose and leaving the official name in tables and the infobox.
• "It is the first sports championship held in D.C. to be won by a D.C.-based professional" presumably you mean it's the "first professional sports championship held in D.C. won by a D.C.-based team"?
  • Removed.
• " to the Conference Finals" first mention of this, what are they?
  • Linked, but they do get explained in the next section.
• "clinched an appearance in the" ->"qualified for the"
  • Clinch is more common in American English, especially for league playoffs.
• "the 56,000 seats released " this is mildly off-putting, do you mean the remainder of the seats beyond the initial 32,000 sold were sold, i.e. the initial ticket allocation sold out?
  • Removed "released"
• Link bleacher. In the UK we don't really use that term.
  • Done.
• " club soccer league" by all means link "soccer" to "association football" for those who still aren't clear. Even for other matches with significant notability (e.g. 1978 FA Cup Final, nudge nudge!) we identify the sport involved using a link pretty early on.
  • Done.
• "from outside their conference three or four times" how random! Was that just by random draw? I've never heard of such a thing in the UK.
  • It was done in a random fashion, though sometimes the league schedulers purposely allowed for cross-conference rivals to play every year. Coincidentally, the 2020 season was supposed to be the first in league history where some teams would not play each other at all because of the schedule congestion and growing size of the league. Whatever they come up with to finish the season (which was cancelled after two matches), this should still hold true.
• "a 35-yard (32 m) shootout" meaningless to a non-expert. I would look around Penalty shootout and similar to find something or add a footnote saying this was a variation of the regular law 14 penalty kick, instead starting with a rolling start, player vs goalkeeper, allowed one (?) shot from anywhere at any point, was it time limited?
  • Link added. These shootouts (based on the NASL version from the 1970s) stared at 35 yards out and allowed players to dribble for 4 seconds before they had to make their shot against an onrushing goalkeeper. If they were fouled, a regular penalty would be called (though I think this was changed for later seasons).
• A countdown clock isn't particularly novel. Does this imply it stopped and started when the ball went out of play or more traditional association football where it just decremented from the get-go regardless of what happened, and referees were enabled to add injury time etc?
  • The clock did stop at the referee's discretion, so it was a bit inconsistent.
• "at a predetermined neutral venue" for D.C. to play in D.C. this hardly seems like a "neutral" venue.
  • The venue was decided before D.C. qualified, per the pre-2012 league rules. Despite this, a few teams had played the MLS Cup final at their own stadium.
• "hosts D.C. United, who" D.C. United overlinked.
  • Fixed.
• "without nine of their starting players several times" this is very exact, nine each time? How?
  • Fixed, but they were separate instances over the course of a few weeks.
• "earning a 6–2 record" in BritEng and the rest of the world perhaps, do you mean winning six and losing two?
  • Yes, in American English this is a common way of labeling teams. In newspaper articles, you'd see "D.C. United (6-2)" at their first mention to indicate their current record.
• "D.C. began the season atop the Eastern Conference with" well they didn't begin the season top. Maybe they were top after the first few games.
  • Fixed.
• "starer" what is one of these?
  • A typo. Fixed.
• "during his stint with an indoor team" I literally cannot get my head around this, someone at this level of football decided to play indoor football??
  • Before MLS started play in 1996, indoor leagues were the most-attended and paid the best for domestic players. Quite a few legendary national team players from the post-NASL/pre-MLS era had their start with indoor teams.
• "by the end of the month" you just mentioned two months. I guess May, but given you only mentioned one "winning" draw out of four, it seems unlikely that would have regained them the lead?
  • Fixed.
• Link " attackers".
  • Replaced with generic "players".
• "D.C. won its next" D.C. have been plural up until now.
  • Fixed.
• "first win against the Kansas City Wizards in franchise history" out of curiosity, how many matches had this been?
  • Added five losses.
• "of its starting lineup" I think we'd say something like "of its first choice starting eleven" because every single match has a "starting lineup" whether it's the optimal one or not.
  • Replaced with "Regular starters"
• " 21–11 record" again, is that 21 wins and 11 losses? Did we say anywhere that a win was only worth two points?
  • Three points for a regulation win, one point for a shootout win (which is counted in the wins column, or "21" in this instance), and zero for a loss.
• "including Defender of the Year Eddie Pope" avoid placing links next to each other, maybe "including Eddie Pope who was named Defender of the Year"
  • Reordered.
• "earned a consolation goal" did he "earn" it or "score" it?
  • Fixed.
• "Carlos Llamosa's" overlinked.
  • Fixed.
• "without Etcheverry on national team" -> "without Etcheverry who was on national team"
  • Fixed.
• "took a three-goal lead at halftime" subtle, but they didn't take it at halftime. They held it at halftime, or made it before halftime.
  • Fixed by switching the order.
• "D.C. clinched its " again, suddenly singular.
  • Fixed.
• "six-yard (18 ft)" I don't think I've ever seen an Imperial to Imperial conversion.

Saving just in case something bad happens... more in a mo. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

• • Fixed, it was meant to be metric.
• DC section is about 60% larger than the Colorado section. Seems uneven to me...

Comments II

• " with a 11–21 win–loss record " aha, you link this kind of record, a little too late.
  • Moved above.
• "under" is used twice in quick succession, let's be more creative.
  • Fixed.
• "were allocated Mexican midfielder David Patiño by the league" WTF? A footnote needed here, who gets "allocated" a player by the league??
  • MLS contracts are owned by the league, rather than the teams (which still holds true today), so the league reserves the right to distribute players to achieve parity between teams. In the early years, that included allocating key players from the U.S. and Mexico to teams based on what they need rather than an open market.
• "put them in second or third in the Western Conference" seriously?
  • Conferences can swing wildly. Some years, winning records aren't enough to get in the playoffs, other years they'll get you to first place.
• "The Rapids finished fourth in the conference with a losing 14–18 record..." next 13 matches go without coverage.
  • Will work on expanding this soon, as the newspaper archives for the Denver area that I can access are quite spotty.
• "ended with a six-match losing streak that was ended " ended ... ended.
  • Deleted the last bit of the sentence.
• "was credited to" by whom?
  • Rewrote the sentence.
• " all four of their regular season fixtures.[46]" could include highlights (per the needed expansion of this section for balance).
• "The victory was credited to a strong defensive performance" by whom?
  • Fixed.
• "Los Angeles Galaxy" overlinked.
  • Fixed.
• Link header.
  • Done.
• "header in the 42nd minute that was scored by defender Sean Henderson" -> header in the 42nd minute from defender.."
  • Fixed.
• Link free kick.
  • Done.
• Link post.
  • Done.
• Link volley.
  • Done.
• " Chris Henderson and Sean Henderson" -> " Chris and Sean Henderson"
  • Fixed.
• Where is summary of results referenced?
  • Added citation links.
• "broadcast on ABC and " in the United States.
  • Added.
• " until 2016" easter egg, make it "until the 2016 MLS Cup."
  • Fixed.
• Link "color commentator" (we have no clue what that means).
  • Added; it's AmEng for the side analyst in the booth.
• "100 foreign markets" overseas rather than foreign?
  • The markets include Canada and Mexico, which are not literally "over the sea" for the U.S.
• "new record for the league's post-season.[58] " " new record a single match in the league's post-season"
  • Fixed.
• "and deterring some ticket-holding fans from attending" deterred. But above you said "After the team clinched an appearance in the final, the 56,000 seats released for the match were sold out and an additional 1,000 bleacher seats were added" so that's 57,000 yet 57,431 attended despite the weather? I'm confused.
  • The attendance figure reflected tickets sold, but not the actual people-in-seats, which the Globe reported as "few thousand spectators short of the 57,431 announced attendance".
• Overlinks in the final summary: Garlick, Hahnemann, Patino, Harkes, Paz and Harris.
  • Fixed.
• Link yellow card.
  • Done.
• Link penalty area.
  • Done.
• " took a short shot from 12 yards (11 m)" remove "short".
  • Removed.
• "were outshot 8–5 in the first half," how many on target?
  • The stats breakdown does not mention shots on target during the first half.
• "post on a high " from a high cross surely, not "on a high cross"!
  • The use of "on" for combined plays is fairly common in American English. Dunno why, but it sounds more natural.
• "Colorado earned a consolation" scored, not earned. One is objective, the other not.
  • Fixed.
• " area on an assist" with an assist.
  • See above.
• "uncalled fouls that were described as potential penalty kicks" according to whom? And I guess you mean "fouls missed by the referee [who was he by the way?] which some considered to be possible penalties"?
  • Fixed.
• The infobox has Man of the match but the prose has "most valuable player". Need to be consistent.
  • The infobox does not support using the proper term (MLS Cup MVP), so this can't be done. MLS uses "MVP" for the man of the match in the cup final, but "Man of the Match" in other contexts.
• "MLS Cup Most Valuable Player: Jaime Moreno (D.C. United)" Moreno overlinked.
  • Fixed.
• Where are match rules noted? Especially the wonderful golden goal?
  • Not typically cited, and I am having a hard time finding a source. MLS used golden goals until 2004.
• Did D.C. United not even name a single substitute for the match?
  • There was a full bench, but no substitutes were used. As a result, the substitutes weren't listed in the match records I have or in newspaper reports.
• "Washington, D.C. area " comma after D.C.
  • Fixed.
• "the 1996 Summer Olympics" and " the U.S. Open Cup Final " are overlinked.
  • Removed the first, changed the second (for a future article).
• " an NFL game." explain this, not all association football fans will get it.
  • Fixed.
• "ensuing penalty shootout" proper shootout or one of those rolling start ones?
  • A regular one, since the Open Cup did not use MLS rules.
• "with the exception of Etcheverry and Moreno" why?
  • Added that they were away on national team duty.

That's all I have on a first pass. Several questions which are no doubt geographically related. I look forward to working through them with you, so it's on hold. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: Thanks for the quick and long review. I've responded to your comments and will work on expanding the Colorado section when I can find time to search and comb through the Denver archives. The wacky world of 1990s MLS and American English terms are always fun to explain. SounderBruce 05:35, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Good work. The expansion of the Colorado section clearly isn't going to fail this nomination, so I'll promote. Please do go ahead with the expansion (only a little bit is required). Thanks for your explanations of some of the arcane concepts of MLS!! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:12, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by DannyS712 (talk) 23:44, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that MLS Cup 1997 finalists Colorado Rapids had finished the regular season with a losing record? Source: AP via Hawaii Tribune-Herald
  • ALT1:... that MLS Cup 1997 set a television viewership record for the cup that stood until 2016? Source: AP via Kitsap Sun

• Reviewed: 2016 Heart of Dallas Bowl

Improved to Good Article status by SounderBruce (talk). Self-nominated at 07:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC).

• Promoted to GA in time (for some reason the tool is showing "January 1, 2001" instead of April 18, 2020 as the promotion date, which is probably an error of some kind), meets the other DYK requirements such as hook sourcing and inline citation. ALT0 is probably the hook that would interest the broadest interest, including even non-MLS fans. QPQ still pending. My concern is that Earwigs suggests a close match with this link, and while I can't tell if that link copied from Wikipedia or the other way around, this needs to be addressed before this is approved. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:20, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

• It was clearly copied from an earlier version of the article (which I wrote in May 2019). This website is a cheap linkfarm that ripped Wikipedia entries without attribution. SounderBruce 21:32, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Narutolovehinata5: QPQ has been added above. SounderBruce 04:04, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns (per above), reliable sources are used. I concur that ALT0 is the most likely to be of the broadest interest. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 00:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)