Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Television)

Merge/Redirect

Just a thought: Do we really need both List of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. characters and this article? If not, I would get rid of the AoS list.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:33, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

They serve different purposes - this is a cast list, that is a character list. I am still working on a version of the AoS page in my sandbox that would appear far less obsolete than it currently does, and would, in my opinion, make it a superior and more interesting article, but even if it takes a while to get it ready for the mainspace, the AoS list should remain as its own article. - adamstom97 (talk) 01:35, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Also, we are not intending for all of the characters that appear each series, to appear in this table. This is just a select few. Because if we included all, the table here would be massive, requiring the split out to what we already have. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Indicators

Would it be helpful if we had indicators for recurring and guest appearances like we do for main cast members? - adamstom97 (talk) 11:05, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

No, I think we should leave it as it is, they don't really need clarification in my opinion, that is what the season pages and list of characters pages are. --Ditto51 (My Talk Page) 13:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Agreed per Ditto51. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:36, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Favre, probably not the right place, but do we need the separate indicators on the Arrowverse page?--Ditto51 (My Talk Page) 17:42, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

I'll look and comment over there. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:53, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Hive

Should we add Hive in the cast list?? - Eagc7 (talk), 15 March 2016

Yo-Yo Rodriguez

How many appearances or how big role does it require to add her to the list? CAJH (talk) 18:42, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

See Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors/FAQ.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:49, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

"Marvel's"

Any reason that this has been put in front of every instance of every title? It's completely superfluous, and doesn't match the article titles chosen by WP:COMMONNAME. --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

I saw this comment and thought about it for a bit, and agree with your questioning. I've removed many instances of "Marvel's" when we are talking about a show's season (because commonly those are referred to much more as simply "Common Show Name" (season X); ie Agent Carter (season 2), not Marvel's Agent Carter (season 2)). However, I have left in the table, its use for series that are not confirmed to be more than one series (Damage Control, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Punisher) as those are appropriate to keep as such at this time. Should any of those get a second season order, they will be changed to how the other series are now formatted. I've also made these changes over at the List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series recurring cast table, as those were also unnecessarily excessive - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:12, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Getting ahead of the game on something

So with Ghost Rider joining AoS season 4, there have been some strong suggestions that he may appear in a Netflix series, or a Netflix series character may appear on AoS (specifically Punisher). If this comes to pass, I just wanted to talk about including these characters in each table. The idea in my head, and as the tables currently operate, is the in-table headings are listed chronologically (hence why the films and one-shots are first in the order for the ABC one). So if Punisher comes to AoS, I think the order should be: Films, One-Shots, AoS S1, AoS S2, Agent Carter S1, Introduced in a Netflix series, then the rest of the table. And conversely, if Ghost Rider appears on Netflix, that table would be: Introduced in an ABC series first, then the rest of the table. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

The problem that I have with this and the way we are doing this for recurring characters at the character lists, is that we can't be sure that all characters crossing over, will do so at the same time. If we really are getting ahead of the game, then I think we should come up with a system that will be reasonably consistent, and will always fit the situation no matter who is introduced where and when. The "Introduced in films" section here already has at least one character that was introduced after S.H.I.E.L.D. began. That is why I never even looked at the order as being chronological (though it does mostly appear that way). Instead, I always thought we were listing characters established elsewhere at the top, and then getting into all of the series characters. In addition to creating a standard format, this helps readers find cross-over characters quickly. So the order I am thinking of is: (ABC table) Films, OS, Netflix, AoS S1, AoS S2, etc.; (Netflix table) ABC, DD S1, JJ S1, etc.; (Film actors) Previous phases, potential TV characters, this Phase film 1, this Phase film 2, etc.; (DD recurring characters) other TV series, DD S1, DD S2; and so on. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:15, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah this is why I wanted to discuss to have something laid out. I think chronologically by medium (regardless of when the actor appeared in that medium) is the way to go (ie my version), but yours might work too. I think until we see it, we won't really know. But at least it's in the back of our minds. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:55, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree with adamstom97. I think it's better to list the characters from other media first, then the characters who were introduced in whatever the table is about. So, rather than thinking strictly chronologically (because as adamstom pointed out, that causes problems), we'd think of it as two "sections": Characters introduced previously, and Characters introduced in this subject of this table.

So in extending this example to every possibility (which is beyond what's even likely at this point), the first section would always order it as Films, OS, TV, before the reaching the subject of the table

• Phase 3 table would list characters from previous phases, one-shots, tv, then the subject of the table - Civil War, Doctor Strange...
• One-Shots table would list characters from films, tv, then the subject of the table - The Consultant, A Funny Thing...
• ABC table would list characters from films, one-shots, other tv platforms, then the subject of the table - AoS and Agent Carter
• Netflix table would list characters from films, one-shots, other tv platforms, then the subject of the table - Daredevil, Jessica Jones...

I'm just realising that I haven't really said anything new, but hopefully it helps. --ProfessorKilroy (talk) 03:36, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

The only reason I'm more of a proponent to the "chronological" order is, even though it is a large catch all for the medium, going with the Punisher appearing on AoS S4 example, everyone introduced in AoS S1-2 and AC S1 were introduced before the Netflix characters. So placing it at the top of the table, to me, implies that that medium was introducing characters before the ABC series started. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:30, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I can understand that, but I don't personally feel that way. For me, looking at each table/list in terms of their own scope rather than the scope of the entire MCU, it seems weird that sections about other series and media, etc., are popping up randomly in between seasons, with no immediate explanation. If we were talking about one big MCU table, then obviously you would have everything in chronological order, but as far as Punisher potentially appearing in AoS S4, the previous characters in that table were not introduced in relation to the Punisher, and people will see that he is first appearing in a season later than the earlier ones, just as people can see that President Ellis first appeared in S3, even though he is listed in the table before the S1 and S2 characters.

I see the ABC table, as it currently stands, as characters introduced in AoS S1, S2, AC, etc. all in chronological order. Then, outside of that scope we have the films and One-Shots introducing some characters that then crossed over here. The timing of all that, exactly, is essentially meaningless as far as the ABC table is concerned, it just knows that before they appeared in an ABC show they appeared in one of these other places. Therefore, listing them all at the top of the table doesn't mean they were introduced before the first season began, it just means that they were introduced before they appeared in a season there. By (hopefully) putting the Punisher at the top, we are saying that he was introduced independently of the ABC shows before making an appearance in one of them, and if you want to know the specifics of that timing then our more in depth articles will surely be of help there. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:38, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Most Wanted cast here?

I was thinking of including the Most Wanted cast in a right-most column of the ABC table that said "Unaired pilot" and its spot at the bottom of the table would say "Intended to be introduced in Marvel's Most Wanted". But that is of course if we should even mention Dominic Fortune and Christina Santos here given the pilot has not aired or released in any form. My reasoning for inclusion is it does exist, and the characters were intended to be a part of the MCU so I think a mention here is warranted. Thoughts? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree with this. Though we haven't seen the episode, it does exist, and it would be notable if any of these characters went on to appear elsewhere in the MCU as well. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:45, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to add it in then. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

It's not publicly available though. It hasn't been released, so surely it's not canon. And surely a list of MCU TV series actors should only include TV series that actually aired. I would've assumed unaired pilots were kinda like deleted scenes - stuff that was intended to be a part of the MCU, but didn't end up getting released. --ProfessorKilroy (talk) 09:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Any thoughts? --ProfessorKilroy (talk) 14:06, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree with ProfessorKilroy, it was intended to be a part of the MCU but didn't make the cut. If it is released at some point as a special feature or something, then I think we can reconsider.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:11, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

But I feel there is some weight to the fact that it was created and filmed, even though the public did not see it. Which would have been different, in my eyes, of say Damage Control, where nothing has come of it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:24, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I think that's fine in regards to notability but you can't really call it an installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Therefore you can't say that those characters exist in this universe. At the very least it needs an asterix.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I'll take them back out then and we can table this until anything ever comes of it, if at all. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:14, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

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Time for a split?

Seeing more of the Disney+ series getting cast, I've been thinking it might be beneficial to split this article into one for the Marvel Television series (ABC, Netflix, YA, AintoF) and one for the Marvel Studios series. However, while that is the best split option, I don't know what each potential new article would be called, because I don't believe "Marvel Television" or "Marvel Studios" work well as a disambiguations. Please let me know if you a) think a split is even worth it, and if so, b) what the article could be called. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:02, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree. You could call it Marvel Disney+ Show Cast or something. User:LoreMaster22 (talk) 03:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I think having List of Marvel Studios television series actors would work, but I don't know how to format the other one: List of Marvel Television actors? List of Marvel Television series actors? List of Marvel Television television series actors? El Millo (talk) 03:50, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I was feeling that "Marvel Cinematic Universe" should remain in the titles, which is why I felt it got a bit tricky, but in the end this article would become a dab page to the two new titles, so maybe it isn't necessary? Marvel Studios like you said could work with what you suggested, but Marvel Television, maybe that is just "List of Marvel Television series actors" or "List of Marvel Television television series actors" and we make some sort of note that Legion and The Gifted are not a part of this. Also pinging @TriiipleThreat, Adamstom.97, Richiekim, and Trailblazer101: for their thoughts. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I was thinking about this, too. I feel that it is best to have all of the Marvel Studios actors in one article, and the casts from the Marvel Television series in another one, all just for the MCU of course. Potential titles that come to mind include "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Studios actors" and "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Television actors", or more preferably "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Studios", and "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Television". Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

That, of course, would mean revamping List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors to the Marvel Studios one, and I also think the MT series one can cover Slingshot, while the MS one can cover WHIH and other Studios productions with those actors. Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Well the film actors article can be easily split into simply List of The Infinity Saga film actors, List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors (Infinity Saga), or List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors (Phases 1-3) so I don't think that needs a revamp of any sort beyond a split. I also think our scopes for each of these articles should remain as is, one (or two) for the films, and then the television series here, so we shouldn't be adding in Slingshot or WHIH. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:05, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't think its necessary. Its not difficult navigate, besides I've seen a lot longer lists on Wikipedia.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

My feelings as well is there is a very clear divide between Marvel Television series, and what Marvel Studios is doing, so a split of the casts between the two companies also felt appropriate. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:24, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Ah true about the films one. So should we do "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Studios series" and "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Television series"? Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:12, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Is there a need for the titles to be that long? why wouldn't Marvel Studios and Marvel Television be enough of a disambiguation? El Millo (talk) 16:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Would "List of Marvel Studios series actors" and "List of Marvel Television series actors be more fitting? I know Favre said it would be nice including "Marvel Cinematic Universe" in the titles given Marvel Studios has produced films through their Marvel Knights banner and other films pre-2012 and Marvel Television has produced shows outside of the MCU, as well. That makes me ponder about "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Studios actors" and "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Television actors" be good or is that too confusing? I'm not really sure what format would work for this as they should be titled for the MCU and the companies to distinguish them. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, that would be too confusing, since Marvel Cinematic Universe Studios and Marvel Cinematic Universe Television aren't recognizable names. This is difficult. El Millo (talk) 17:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Man, I didn't think this would be too hard to think about. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:57, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Would List of Marvel Studios' Cinematic Universe television actors and List of Marvel Television's Cinematic Universe television actors work in a similar format to "Marvel's Netflix television series"? That begs the question as to how we should address the companies in conjunction with the franchise. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I think List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Studios series and List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Television series is the closest we've come to the answer so far. Perhaps List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Studios), but I don't know if this warrants using parentheses. El Millo (talk) 18:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't think this would warrant parenthesis, and it'd be best to avoid using them when applicable as we did for the Phase articles. I feel the longer titles List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from [company] is the best route to go for this. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo: I think in your recent examples, we'd still need "television" between the company and series, so it would be "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Studios television series" and "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe actors from Marvel Television television series", which, I'm not in love with for their length. I'm going to drop a note at the TV project to this discussion, see if any other users have helpful suggestions. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

The disambiguated versions seem to me to be the best option so far as it has the the franchise, studio and the word "television" in them. Another option, which would be longer would be "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors from Marvel Television productions" which I'm less a fan of. --Gonnym (talk) 01:01, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

@Gonnym: which titles are you referring to specifically by The disambiguated versions? El Millo (talk) 01:58, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Studios). --Gonnym (talk) 10:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Since we are discussing splits, I would like to bring up the fact that most of the Marvel TV shows don't need to be listed together like this. The original point was to show all the actor/character crossovers like what we do for the films, but other than the Netflix shows there just hasn't been the same level of crossover here. We already have extensive character lists for most of the shows, and they include similar tables with the seasons that actors/characters appeared in. We also have tables showing crossover characters at the different Marvel TV franchise pages that comfortably serve the purpose of this article for the ABC shows, the YA shows, and Helstrom. So, I propose that we get rid of most of this article and replace it with a "List of Marvel Netflix television series actors" and a "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Disney+ actors". What do people think about that? - adamstom97 (talk) 10:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I think this would be the best course of action, given this article has become quite outdated and unnecessary as we've split all of the series groupings into their articles that cover all of the necessary information. Aside from minor references acknowledging Runaways and Cloak & Dagger and some brief connections with S.H.I.E.L.D., Roxxon, etc., each of these series can be covered entirely on their articles with any connections already covered on each series page, really rendering this collective page useless as we can quite easily split the actors pages out for each series groping, so I'm all for it. Trailblazer101 (talk) 13:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

So, thinking the articles would be, as you mentioned Adam "List of Marvel Netflix television series actors" and "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Disney+ actors", then the others could just follow their respective article titled with "List of Marvel young-adult television series actors" and "List of Marvel ABC television series actors". Not sure if Helstrom would warrant an actors page separate from a cast members list article as the Netflix series and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have, given "Adventure into Fear" is only that one series. Also thinking this main article could just redirect to "Lists of Marvel Cinematic Universe cast members" or be made a disambig for all these TV actors pages and re-titled "Lists of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors", the latter would work more for navigation. Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

@Adamstom.97: I like what you're proposing. My thoughts on all of that would be this: remove the ABC section completely, but perhaps adjust criteria for the table at Marvel's ABC television series to include the actors who appeared in films and One-Shots Scratch that. We should just add McDonough as Dum Dum to the table, because he was the only other actor to appear in AoS and Carter not in that table currently; split off the Netflix table as is to List of Marvel Netflix television series actors; remove the YA section completely; remove Adventure into Fear/Helstrom section completely; and then keep this article name for exclusively the Marvel Studios series. I'm not a fan of of making that content at a "List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Disney+ actors" article, because there is the slight possibility that Marvel Studios does not stay exclusively on Disney+ for their TV content. By keeping the Marvel Studios content here, we're playing a little fast and loose with the Marvel TV stuff "not" being MCU, but all indications make it seem as though there will be hardly, if any, references to those series going forward, so I think we can make that call ourselves. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I agree with this moreover. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:11, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

So all these sections will be spun-off to individual lists: List of Marvel ABC television series actors, List of Marvel Netflix television series actors, and List of Marvel young adult television series actors, the Helstrom table goes away, and the Disney+ series stay here. Is this the idea? El Millo (talk) 18:31, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I think Favre1fan93 and I are on the same page here. We don't need separate actor lists for the ABC series or the YA series, they should both go away as well. Makes sense to keep the Netflix table though so that goes to "List of Marvel Netflix television series actors". I'm not against keeping the Disney+ shows here, I just proposed the different name to help clarify that this won't include Marvel TV shows anymore. If we don't change the name then we just need to be clear in our wording about what goes here. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:48, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Yup, exactly. I think between a hatnote (I was thinking something like "This article is about Marvel Studios' series. For actors in Marvel Television series, see Lists of Marvel Cinematic Universe cast members" and we could rework that to better section off Marvel TV from Marvel Studios) and our wording in our lead, plus the "See also" section, we can make the Marvel Studios series work here. And @Facu-el Millo: let us know if you agree with removing ABC and YA in addition to Helstrom. Also, @TriiipleThreat: I know you said you didn't feel a split was necessary, but now that it appears we're approaching a retooling of what this page is and its contents, do you have an opinion on this new approach? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:21, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm indifferent. I understand there hasn't been much crossover and the need to distinguish between the sets of series but these are all still considered apart of the MCU, amirite? If so, people still maybe looking for a comprehensive list.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:38, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Sure I get that. I think what we're also realizing is that this information is there already, either at the Marvel Television franchise pages, or the individual series cast lists, so it's not like it is fully going away. But as Adam pointed out, there was not much crossover between each franchise (within each yes) unlike what the films are. It could be more beneficial to direct readers elsewhere, rather than basically duplicating some existing content that is more fleshed out elsewhere. And if you feel, we could better incorporate Marvel Television here. Perhaps something like List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series with level 2 headings for Marvel TV and Marvel Studios, with the Marvel TV discussing each franchise and directing readers to those other locations. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I see what you're saying, the crossovers inbetween ABC series and inbetween YA series are minimal. If we remove the ABC one though, there's a few things we should instead include in the cast list that's in the Marvel's ABC television series article, mainly the cast indicators for actors that were introduced in films and things like that. There is, however, a lot of information in the ABC table that wouldn't be included anywhere, were that table to be eliminated, and I don't see any harm in it being its own independent list at List of Marvel's ABC television series actors. The YA table has barely any information that isn't already included in the cast list at Marvel's young adult television series, so definitely remove that one. El Millo (talk) 21:11, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

My suggestion for moving anything over from here to the ABC recurring cast was just Dum Dum Dugan, because he's the only other character not currently listed that appeared in multiple series. I originally thought we should have the film cast moved over, but they are mostly confined to a single series so they wouldn't fit the "recurring" nature the ABC series table is going for. The individual character lists can cover those. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

As far as concerns about having all the MCU shows together, I think we kind of cover that with List of Marvel Cinematic Universe cast members since that has all the list of character pages. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:51, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh right. We already have List of Agent Carter characters and List of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. characters, and Inhumans only had one season. That's it, remove both ABC and YA, and for the one or two characters that cross over series a note will suffice. El Millo (talk) 22:02, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Here's something I started to mock up. The Marvel TV section isn't filled in, but I was thinking some prose could go there. Others are welcome to work/adjust in that space. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:58, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Great El Millo (talk) 22:02, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

With these changes, this page's FAQ has to be removed as well, right? El Millo (talk) 22:22, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

It would probably need to be amended/created for the new Netflix article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't like that idea. And I think that we should just wait. Non of D+ shows had aired yet. But as usual no one will listen my opinion. Mike210381 (talk) 00:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Mike210381: Explain your reasoning then. El Millo (talk) 00:38, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

At the begining, sorry for my English. @Facu-el Millo: I was against of spliting up film and shows lists. I gave my reasons then. Maybe I should not give my opinion, because I mainly edit MCU articles on Polish Wikipedia and I haven't decided to split any of those lists. I think that situation in MCU isn't enough clear for now. I mean how existing MCU shows should be considerd: as part of MCU, as non canon, as tie-in or maybe something else. Adventures of Fear is something that realy won't exist, it's something that Loeb named just before he left. Helstorm probobly won't be part of MCU, it's not even mentioned on Marvel website. There are plenty of rumors... Cox will return etc. I know that's rumors, but who would consider that Keaton will come back as Batman or Foxx as Electro. And I know that Wikipedia don't play with rumors, but we should not hurry up with everything. Nothing bad will happen when we just wait, even 2 more years, before we make decidion how to split certain lists. I think that splitting up film and tv shows list wad a mistake, as well spliting up this list will be mistake. English Wikipedia MCU articles were sort of example for me, but now they are not. You hurry up to much and now it's looks more like fan wiki. For sure I'll wait on Polish Wikipedia with that. Mike210381 (talk) 01:08, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

We know the ABC shows that already exist (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter, and Inhumans) have ended. All the Marvel Netflix series have ended as well. Runaways ended and Cloak & Dagger was canceled. There will be no more crossover between these groups of series than they already were, which was close-to-none, meaning there's no reason to keep them together. On top of that, there's barely any crossover within the ABC series and there's even less crossover between Runaways and Cloak & Dagger, so there's not even a reason to have these two lists anywhere. You can personally consider these shows canon, non-canon, or something in between; but what's clear is that the Disney+ are closer in continuity with the films than these shows were. Regarding rumors, not rumors, and who would consider that Keaton will come back as Batman or Foxx as Electro, we can't do things considering anything that might possibly happen, we do things based on how things happened, are happening, and are most likely to happen in the future based on the information we currently have. If things change, we will change, maybe revert back if necessary. But there's no reason to sit and wait just in case something out of left field happens. El Millo (talk) 03:04, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

So what that they are exist or ended? Are we sure that Marvel won't use those characters in a future? I'm not saying nothing about my presonal point of view is that shows are canon or not. I'm saying that we don't have clear statment from Feige. According to sources they were intetnded to be MCU. My presonal point of view is that they arye "tie-in" to MCU not enterly part of it. I'm not saying that in articles we should consider what might happen. But MCU is something that is still developing, so i that situation we should consider what might happen and get some thoughts "maybe it's better to wait, than do it without any thoughts". Is that spliting realy something that can't wait? Mike210381 (talk) 11:03, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

If Marvel Studios ends up reusing any of the Marvel Television character's and actors, I don't think that changes the fact the shows as they existed had virtually no crossover with any other series outside their respective networks or the films. If we keep waiting, as you are suggesting, what are we waiting for then? We might never get any definitive answer as to what these series mean in terms of the universe and their relation to it. But what we do know, today, is all these series have aired and ended, and the ABC ones had some crossover, the Netflix ones had strong crossover between the two, and Runaways and C&D had one crossover over encounter. Those can all be handled at individual character lists, and discussed in the proposed prose that will go here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:01, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93: I like the approach that you have started in your sandbox. As long as we keep the Marvel TV prose concise I think we should be good. Most of that can probably come from the current lead, and then we can rejig the lead to focus more on the Disney+ side. - adamstom97 (talk) 03:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, that was the thought process. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:01, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I just had another thought. In addition to removing the large tables for ABC, YA, and Helstrom (and splitting Netflix), what if instead of prose, we transclude over the tables from Marvel's ABC television series and Marvel's young adult television series? The Netflix section could be prose, or the table from that series article, and I think Helstrom can just be prose. I've hardcoded this in my sandbox if people want to look at what it could be like. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:52, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Personally I think that will be a bit too much repetition of the tables and images, especially when it is not much different from just having the links to the other articles but that way we don't repeat the info and we keep this page clean and simple. It also is a bit confusing to focus on the Disney+ series in the lead and have the Disney+ actors as the identifying images just to then have such a large section that has nothing to do with them and has its own tables and images in it. I'm happy to hear other opinions on this, but I think my preference at this point would be to just have prose and links to the other articles. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:03, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

If this page is explicitly going to focus on the Disney+ series, should the rest of the sections appear after the Disney+ ones, perhaps within a "Related series" section or something like that? Or should we still keep it in a somewhat chronological order of release? El Millo (talk) 17:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

I think it will be fine to keep them in chronological order as long as we keep them concise. - adamstom97 (talk) 17:51, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

@TriiipleThreat, Adamstom.97, Richiekim, Trailblazer101, Gonnym, and LoreMaster22: Have we reached a conclusion here? El Millo (talk) 21:25, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm all for it, so yes from me. Trailblazer101 (talk)

I'm for it as we;; LoreMaster22 (talk) 20:20, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Facu-el Millo I'm assuming you mean the plan before I suggested transcluding in the tables from each series page, correct? My sandbox still has that up. I also suggest we make sure we get what we want the Marvel Television sections to be prose wise before making splits/reductions happen. I've been a bit busy, but others are welcome to take cracks at it in my sandbox. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I was referring precisely to what's in your sandbox. Given that the last edit there had been roughly the same day this discussion ended, I was afraid there'd been something I missed and perhaps that wasn't the plan anymore. I had to be sure it still was and I'm glad it still is. El Millo (talk) 04:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Well Adam was the only one to really to comment on the transcluded table version (hardcoded in this example), and it seemed like there was at least support to have the prose version. That's why I was confused on what version you were referring too, because there was not much discussion for or against the table transclusion. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93, Trailblazer101, and Adamstom.97: Reviving this thread with a question: what info should we include in each section, in order for each group of series to be concise but long enough to warrant being four different sections? It seems both the Netflix and the Adventure into Fear sections are too short now, while the ABC and the Young adult sections are too long with the tables, in agreement with what Adamstom said above. El Millo (talk) 00:05, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Well have we decided on if we want to go with prose only or transcluded tables? I only have the tables currently in the table as a test to try, but it felt like prose was more in agreement as an option. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:58, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Adamstom that the tables are not necessary and prose would be better. El Millo (talk) 03:00, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, so I've restored my sandbox back to what the thought was with the prose version, of which prose needs to be written about each series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Shouldn't me remove the pictures of the Marvel Television series from the sandbox? I feel that, since that will no longer be the main page for the info, keeping all those images is giving them undue weight. El Millo (talk) 15:17, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

So that's what I wanted to discuss. I see three options: 1) keep the images with all the Marvel Television actors; 2) remove the Netflix actors because that is going to be split off, leaving the ABC and the YA actors; or 3) completely remove. I'm making a new subsection below to further discuss this and get the split happening (hopefully). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:57, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Break - proposal to split

Ok, so I've gone in and formatted my sandbox to what I think the new version of this article should be. Please find this version here. The goal to happen would be as follows: the sandbox version becomes this article resulting in the ABC, YA, and AintoF tables going away (and Dum Dum Dugan gets added to the table at Marvel's ABC television series#Cast and characters) and the entire Netflix section splits off to List of Marvel's Netflix series actors. A few things about the sandbox:

• First, does the prose overall work (lead and the Marvel Television sections)? Should there be more/less?
• Second, does the second paragraph in the ABC section work?
• Finally, regarding the Marvel Television actor pictures, as Facu-el Millo mentioned above, do those work? I see three options:

• 1) Keep the images with all the Marvel Television actors
• 2) Remove the Netflix actors because that is going to be split off, leaving the ABC and the YA actors
• 3) Completely remove

Pinging everyone who was part of the discussion above: @LoreMaster22, Facu-el Millo, Trailblazer101, TriiipleThreat, Gonnym, Adamstom.97, and Mike210381:. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:57, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support I support the idea to split as discussed, pending any discussion points to adjust the sandbox version. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:57, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Don't have strong opinion on the images, but would favor options 1 or 2. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:02, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support split and option 3: remove the Marvel TV pictures. El Millo (talk) 16:00, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support split I like the having a sperate page for Netflix actors LoreMaster (talk) 19:02, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support split. I feel we should have the actors images in the sections for the series they are in, rather than just having the Marvel Studios ones on top and then the rest in their respective sections given the Marvel Television series and actors are first on the list. As for the Netflix actors, their images should be on the separate page. I'm honestly open to either option for where the rest of the actors' images go, though it does feel off by having the Studios actors first before their section. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:30, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
• Comment: Judging from the layout of your sandbox, it seems there is a natural split between Marvel Television and Marvel Studios. So why not just split into two separate articles; one for Marvel Studios and one for Marvel Television?—TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Per our discussions above, when we were all discussing what a split would look like, a straight split between Marvel Television and Marvel Studios was proposed. I believe it wasn't considered further when it was pointed out that there was hardly any interconnectivity between the series outside of the Netflix ones, and the smaller tables at the respective network pages (ABC and YA) did a good job covering the connections, and individual character lists covered the rest. I still think the Netflix actors should have their own list, but just thinking now, if a company split also wanted to happen, maybe what Marvel Television could become would be transclusions of the network article cast tables? Because at least for YA and the later seasons of SHIELD, it just a cast list for each series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:29, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
    • The split by company would only have info already repeated on other articles, and virtually no reason for those tables to be listed together. Regarding the images, I don't think we can pull off having the Marvel Studios images on its section instead of at the top of the article, simply because it would look bad pushing the whole table down. I think that it looks weird next to the lead because we have all the images of the actors from the Marvel Television series which, next to the small text each section has, is unwarranted. The pictures for Netflix actors will be at the new Netflix split, and the pictures for the ABC actors will be at each of their respective lists of characters, same with Hulu. They're unnecessary here. El Millo (talk) 01:00, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

• All of this information can be found in other articles already. Besides there doesn’t have to be one massive table that suggests that they are all interconnected. The page could be split between the companies but in the Marvel Television article keep it as you have it in the sandbox: A table for the Netflix series and links to character articles for the YA and ABC series.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 01:31, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

• @TriiipleThreat: In this thought, just so I clarify for myself, are you suggesting a Marvel Studios article with the Disney+ table, and then a Marvel Television article with prose for the ABC, YA, and Helstrom/AintoF series (and hatnotes pointing places) but keep the Netflix table there and not split that off? If so, I'm starting to come around to that idea. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:15, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Favre1fan93: Yes.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:19, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• Or if we want some sort of tables, we could transclude in the ABC and YA ones in this option too. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• That fine with me. I thought you all were opposed to tables because of the “interconnectiveness” issue but like I said there are ways of doing it without making them seem related.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:19, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• The opposition was the existing tables, breaking down each series by season, since there was little interconnectivity there. This might work, though. I'll make a mockup and add below. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:19, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support split and option 3 per User:Facu-el Millo. Chompy Ace 01:27, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
• Additional comment: If one of the problems is the lack of “interconnectiveness” between series (except for the Netflix series) then shouldn’t the Marvel Studios section be turned to prose as well and point to the cast list in their respective articles? As it appears now there is no overlap between the Disney+ series in terms of casts. This would also allow image table at the top of the sandbox be moved to the Marvel Studios section.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 07:41, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support split and prefer option 3. Firstly I just wanted to give my thoughts on Triiiple's two comments above. I think it makes sense to keep this article as a reflection of List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series, which has a Marvel TV section and then a Marvel Studios section. I am happy with how that is working at the moment, and I think it will work well for this article as well. As for the amount of “interconnectiveness”, I think we should wait until a couple of the series have come out and then re-assess them and how we deal with them. For now I think what Favre has for Marvel Studios works fine. For Marvel TV, I think the more simple we keep it the better. That is why I prefer to remove the images, not to mention I think it is a bit confusing currently with the Disney+ images and then the Marvel TV ones. As far as wording goes, I would suggest a couple changes to the Marvel TV section, but it may be easier if I mock-up my own version and then we can discuss the differences. I can get back to you on that shortly. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:34, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

• Okay, here is an attempt on the wording. I have tried to align the format and prose with the main list of TV series article, which is why I changed Helstrom to "Adventure into Fear". Happy to discuss that, but I do think it makes sense to keep the two articles consistent. I also made a few tweaks to simplify the wording (didn't update any of the refs though) including removing all the TV season / year links as I don't think they are particularly relevant to the reader and the sheer number of them was causing WP:SEAOFBLUE issues in my opinion (it's already bad enough with the number of series, actors, and characters being linked in the lead). Let me know what thoughts you guys have on this. - adamstom97 (talk) 01:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Adamstom.97: I'm fine with your prose adjustments. But looking at yours more so than mine, it does beg a question if we should reconsider again straight Marvel TV/Marvel Studios splits as TriiipleThreat brought up again. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:15, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Favre1fan93: would that mean keeping those tables as they are? El Millo (talk) 02:32, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
• What is the proposal for splitting Marvel TV/Marvel Studios? I don't really see how that could logistically work without being confusing or leaving us with too many articles with not enough in them. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Facu-el Millo: No, per my comments above, we're going to try using the ABC and YA tables (Netflix stays as is). I'm going to make a mockup. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:19, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• Company split proposal Facu-el Millo Here's what a Marvel TV article would look like if we split by company, taking into account Triiiple and my's thoughts above about this. The lead is just a crude copy over, so I'm sure that would need work, but this is to get the idea of it. ABC and YA tables are transcluded from their network pages, Netflix's remained as is from here, and AintoF I just made prose since it's only Helstrom. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:38, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
  • If we go this route, we have to go back to deciding the titles. El Millo (talk) 17:23, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
    • I think the disambiguation option might be the best: List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Television) and List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Studios). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
      • At this point I don't think I am strongly opposed to the new proposal so why not? I also think the disambig option is good since the titles are getting too long and complicated to try fit more words into them. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:08, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
        • I think we all are up for a split, it's just a matter of figuring out which one. I know the articles names for the split by company was a sticking point so if we come to an agreement on some, we can make something happen. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
          • I'm all for the new proposal. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
            • My thoughts on workflow would be to move this existing article to the new Marvel TV name (since most of the history is with that company), then split off the Marvel Studios content, and make this namespace a disambiguation page. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:47, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Any objections to doing the company split? Will give to the end of the week, then I'll make the content moves, which would be moving this article to List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Television), then splitting off the Disney+ content to List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Studios) and making this namespace a disambiguation page directing readers to both of these new articles. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

I fully support the moves and the direction as a whole. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

If anyone needs to visualize this, here's Marvel Television and here's Marvel Studios. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

I really like this good job Favrelfan93 LoreMaster22 (talk) 19:08, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm going ahead with this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:02, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Post move

Move/split is complete. I'm trying to go through and find active links that are now going to a disambiguation page. Facu-el Millo I think we have to adjust your cast list template to include both links. On and the FAQ here might need a rework, and us to create one for the Marvel Studios article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:20, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93: perhaps two different bullet points? One for Marvel Television series (MT) and one for Marvel Studios series (MS)? Or is it unnecessary? El Millo (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo: I was thinking maybe that too? But it might be helpful to see where the TV flag is being used, so maybe only the Marvel TV page will be needed or vice versa. We can also move this part of the discussion to the template talk if you want - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:56, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

So far, it's used in Marvel One-Shots and in List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors, and yes, we'll need both Marvel TV and Marvel Studios. I think having the initial of the studios (MS and MT) might be better than TV1 and TV2. El Millo (talk) 20:22, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Are you suggesting, say for Gideon Malick on the Film actors, instead of it being "Gideon Malick TV", it would be "Gideon Malick MT"? I do feel we shouldn't go over 2 characters for the note. I would be fine with this. And then for the FAQ switch, could the types become "MS TV" and "MT TV"? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Let's take for example Jasper Sitwell and Loki at List of MCU film actors: the first one would be Jasper Sitwell^MT and the second one would be Loki^MS, instead of simply ^TV as they both are now. I don't understand what FAQ switch you're referring to. El Millo (talk) 21:29, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Copy about the notes, that works for me. So for the FAQ, in the Netflix section and on the Marvel Studios page, when we set |type= to TV, it makes the sentence "This section includes main cast members, recurring characters, and notable guest stars, as defined by the FAQ." That is currently linking to Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors/FAQ, which redirects to the Marvel Television namespace. So we need to adjust the template so the Netflix section will link to the Marvel Television one, and the Marvel Studios page will link to the Marvel Studios one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:21, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Ooh, now I get it. Yes, "MS TV" and "MT TV" would work just fine. El Millo (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Great. Are you okay making those changes to the template, then it can be worked on on the actor tables? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:41, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

I've just finished making the changes and adjustments. El Millo (talk) 04:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for getting this done guys. I agree with MT/MS. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:33, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Question

It is not better to have the images put in each respective section? I mean Gregg, Atwell, Mount in ABC series; Cox, Ritter, Colter, Jones and Bernthal in Netflix series; Gardner, Holt and Joseph in Young adult series; and Olsen, Bettany and the rest in the Disney+ series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.239.28.58 (talk) 01:36, 6 December 2020 (UTC)