Talk:Khaled Abu Toameh

Error in Intro

The institute mentioned in the intro is named wrongly, it is Gatestone Institute, not Stonegate. Can someone correct, please? See: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/author/Khaled+Abu+Toameh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.5.133.162 (talk) 18:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Untitled

Im deleting the word "Israel" after Jerusalem. According to the UN website, the status of Jerusalem is still in dispute, over which nation can claim it.

66.42.111.200 23:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC) Marc Nov 7th, 2006

Hasbara fellowship affiliation

I've restored this edit [1] which was deleted by User:Plot Spoiler with an edit summary citing original research and well poisoning. Ther source cited is a primary source, yes, but the conclusions are not original research. Abu Toameh is listed, along with other speakers, as part of the Speakers Bureau of the Hasbara Fellowships, who proudly boast of the pro-Israel advocacy and their affiliation with Aish International. The well poisoning argument is also a strange one, unless one thinks that being an advocate for Israel is inherently a bad thing. I'm sure many Palestinians don't think much of Abu Toameh because of his affiliation with this group, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't state the facts of this affiliation. Tiamut^talk 01:44, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

This wreaks like cherry-picked information to associate him what is considered by some to be a controversial right-wing element of the pro-Israel community. Mention that he is involved with pro-Israel groups, yes, as he is involved in countless other groups, but to cherry-pick this one is particularly problematic and I would argue constitutes well-poisoning. Abu Toameh is much more notable for his journalism and his association with the Hudson Institute, etc. You are attempting to degrade the balance of the article. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:53, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Plese keep your comments limited to content and not contributors. Thanks.

His talks being sponsored by Hasbara Fellowships is mentioned is many sources covering his talks, for example this one. He is listed on the Hasbara Fellowships site here, and is listed in this document from the Israel Campus Coalition, as one of the subsidized speakers available to campus groups here. There is no cherry-picking involved. The sources cited are reliable for the information being used. There is no logical reason that this readily avilable informtion should not be in his article. The well-poisoning allegation is particulrly strange one, given that the pro-Isrel advocacy groups who list his name have no problem doing so, and Abu

Toameh doesn't seem to mind either. If he did, he would not be Hasbara Fellowships speaker. His talks are vrious universities re partially paid for by this group, and this is notable and relevant to his article entry. I'm restoring the material you have deleted twice now. Tiamut^talk 20:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

The way in which it is organized now makes infinitely more sense. Plot Spoiler (talk) 20:35, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad you like it. But why did you delete the additional cites and the information about how his talks at university campuses are subsidized by the organization? [2] Tiamut^talk 21:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Khaled Abu Toameh is invited by MANY organizations to speak at different universities in North America. He's not affiliated with any organization, although some have listed him as one of their sponsored speakers. Abu Toameh has often described himself as being both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel. Marwajalal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marwajalal (talk • contribs) 17:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE note that Khaled Abu Toameh no longer appears as a speaker on the Hasbara Fellowships Web site. Look at this link to the site. Besides, Hasbara is not a "right-wing element."

http://www.israelactivism.com/speakers

marwajalal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marwajalal (talk • contribs) 17:51, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

The fact is that he was a Hasbara speaker as described here. I've changed the tense to reflect that this may be past tense due to his being delisted from the site you linked to. Please note that he was listed there as recently as last month, so his break with them must be fairly recent. There are other news articles listed here and in the article that describe his talks at universities as being sponsored by Hasbara Fellowships as well. This information should not be removed. Wikipedia is not censored. Tiamut^talk 20:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Abujamil keeps deleting the information aout Abu Toameh's Hasabra affiliations and most recently has started deleting new information about Abu Toameh's affiliations with StandWithUs. I'm not going to revert his edits since I don't want to continue this edit war. For good faith editors interested in providing Wikipedia readers with relevant information I suggest this information be restored and that this sentence be added as well

He has been a hired speaker for the pro-Israel organization StandWithUs, and spoke at their annual conference in Los Angeles in 2008.

Tiamut^talk 21:05, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

The fact that someone was invited to speak at a conference by any organization does not necessarily mean that he or she is "affiliated" with that group. It's not clear why the previous contributor Tiamut is trying to create the false impression that Abu Toameh is pro-Israel or is affiliated with any political group. even if has sources, that does not mean this is correct.

i am not trying to create a false impression. I'm reporting what reliable sources have to say about who sponsors Khaled Abu Toameh's talks at university campuses. Hiding this information from readers when it is stated in mutliple sources is wrong. Its relevant to this article and Wikipedia readers have a right to know who pays for Abu Toameh's talks. Tiamut^talk 21:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

And by the way, the idea that because Khaled Abu Toameh is not listed at the Hasbara Fellowships site (anymore, though he was a month ago) means that is no longer a speaker for them is WP:OR. This article, dated March 2009, states clearly: "Hasbara Fellowships brought Khaled Abu-Toameh to 14 universities in California, Illinois and Washington DC last month, with over 1,000 students and community members attending these events -- his observations of American campuses appear in the article below." Given that his talks at universities are mentioned, this information should be in the article. Tiamut^talk 21:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

That article says specifically "Many thanks to all the Hasbara Fellows and student leaders who worked to make each event a success, and to The David Project, as well as other organizations who co-sponsored these events." It's clear that the local branch of Hasbara, the student leaders, the David Project and other organizations "sponsored" him. (ie raised the $ to pay his speaking fee) Again, this does not imply that he works for Hasbara Fellows or that he is a mouthpiece for them as it sounds like you are trying to imply. He may merely have been a part of their speakers bureau for a time. In fact, generally the speakers' bureau works to the benefit of their clients, rather than vice versa. If they are a liberal speakers bureau they tend to have a stable of liberal speakers, or if conservative, ditto. Probably we can say with some assurance that since he is a part of their speaker's bureau, he shares some of the same sentiments, ie support for Israel. Agree with Abujamil. Let's not use "affiliated" Just say he has been (if you have a credible link) a part of their speaker's bureau. Stellarkid (talk) 05:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

The text I added represented the sources properly. The only problems was its being listed under a sub-heading of "Affiliations", which has since removed. As such, I've restored the text which is no longer in any way problematic. Tiamut^talk 17:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

References

it's obvious that your are trying to create the false impression that Khaled Abu Toameh is pro-Israel just because Jewish organizations invite him to speak on university campuses and at conferences. By the way, there's nothing wrong with being pro-Isreal, but you are trying to make him appear as if he's affiliated with these organizations. Why aren't you mentioning that Abu Toameh's talks on university campuses have also been sponsored and paid for by various departments of universities in the US and Canada and not only by Hasbarah Fellowships and StandWithUs?

so it says that Hasbarah Fellowships "brought" Khaled Abu Toameh. Does that mean that he's affiliated with Hasbarah Fellowships, as you continue to insist? stop trying to mislead wikepedia readers please. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abujamil (talk • contribs)

Have to agree with Abujamil to some extent. Just because someone is listed on someone's speaker's bureau (StandWithUs) does not necessarily mean they are "affiliated" in any particular way except as part of their stable of speakers. It does tend to imply that their ideas are not in opposition to each other. Mitchell Bard, for example, is another one of their speakers, yet it is not appropriate to refer to him as "affiliated", so as to give the impression that he is working for them. I am sure that Toameh is not working for them but for himself. Stellarkid (talk) 05:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Your comment does not speak to the text that was added in any way. The references provided indicate he was a hired speaker of StandWithUs and that's the wording I used. No problem there. Tiamut^talk 17:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

He's been a speaker at dozens of venues - this particular one has no special significance. Down In The Air (talk) 17:38, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

If someone gets significant coverage for doing speaking venues, wherever they may be and whoever they are sponsored by, its relevant to include that information in the person's wikipedia entry. It provides information on what they do and who they do it for. Please restore the information you deleted. Tiamut^talk 18:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

a 1 sentence mentioning he was a keynote speaker is not "significant coverage". It is trivial mention. What he does is already described, in detial - he is a journalist. Down In The Air (talk) 22:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

what evidence do you have that Toameh is a "hired" speaker" or that Hasbarah paid him $$ ??

It's not clear why tiamut insists or claims that SWU or Hasbarah Fellowships paid Abu Toameh to speak. They may have helped sponser or organize his speaking events, but that does not mean that he's been "hired" by them or that he received any payment. You should be careful about the facts. Moreover, the attempt to depict Abu Toameh as being "affiliated" with any group does him injustice. What evidence do you have that he's "affiliated" with these groups? Abu Toameh has been invited by dozens of groups tp speak in various parts of the world, including some that are pro-Israel. But this does not mean that he works for them. He is known as an independent journalist who has not hesitated to criticize Israel in public, especially with regards to its treatment of its Arab minority. Wikepdia should not be be publishing false material and jiving with the facts..thank you - abu jamil

The sources I provided for the text I added state clearly that Abu Tomeh's talks have been subsidized and co-sponsored by Hasbara Fellowships and thathe was a hired speaker for StandWithUs. I'm sorry that you find this information offensive, but its covered by multiple reliable sources and is therefore relevant to this man's Wikipedia entry. The fact that you want to bury this information, and are constantly deleting it (along with the a slew of other anonymous and new accounts all appearing around the same time to do the same thing) is of greater concern than my wanting to add it to the article. Tiamut^talk 18:18, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

and who exactly decides what is reliable sources and what's not? do you have the right to do so? on what basis? i don't find it offensive as you say, but rather misleading. this is exactly what you are doing when you make him appear as if he's "affiliated" with a specific group just because he was invited to speak for them. even if they did pay him a fee, does that mean that he shares their opinions or works for them? and why haven't you mentioned other groups and forums that have invited him to speak? why are you focusing only on "pro-Israel" groups? what's your agenda? are you trying to discredit toameh by using wikedpeida? by the way, i'm not using different accounts to delete your misleading information? again, who decides what's a reliable source and what's not? abu jamil

Right-- I came to this rather late but I have made changes remarked by abu jamil because I think he is correct. We do not know Mr Toamah's "affiliation" or whether he was paid for a particular speech and who paid him. I have changed the wording to read:

"Abu Toameh was listed as part of the speakers bureau for the Hasbara Fellowships, who have brought him to more than a dozen talks at various university campuses.[9][10][11] He has also been a speaker for the pro-Israel organization StandWithUs,[12][13] and spoke at their annual conference in Los Angeles in 2008.[14]

I have left the pro-Israel description of StandWithUs, for now, but not the "hired" part, which is unnecessary. @ Abu Jamil -- could you please improve the article by adding some further information about some other groups that Mr Toamah has spoken to or for? If you put evidence of them on this page and they come from a RS I will add them to the page if you chose not to. I think it improved by my changes. Stellarkid (talk) 03:31, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the corrections and for setting the record straight. I found a link to an article that talks about Abu Toameh's lecture at the London School of Oriental and African Studies in December 2009. Of course this university can be described as anything but "pro-Israel." The article clearly shows that Abu Toameh has a balanced view and is critical of both sides of the conflict. Can you please add this to his Wikepedia entry?

Here's the link:http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/israeli-arab-speaks-sens/

This is not a WP:RS. Will have to investigate further. Stellarkid (talk) 17:16, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Blogs are not RS generally. Unless the author is considered highly notable. I did find a reference for this and added it. Now if I could just find a reference for those awards, we would be all set. I have not had any luck in that regard! Can you help? ps please don't for get to sign your posts with teh 4 tildes. Thanks, Stellarkid (talk) 17:45, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

the awards

ok, thank you very much for the good work. Here's what I found out [ but so far not in the archives]:

Abu Toameh received the first award in 1999 from the organization Search for Common Ground. It states: 1999 Common Ground Awards for Journalism in the Middle East in memory of Father Bruno Husser for Building Bridges of Understanding [Honorable Mention]. It is signed by Amb [ret] Christopher W. Ross, J. Zel-Lurie and Richard J. Einsendorf.

This is verified information. Now the question is how do we find it on the Internet?

thanks - abu jamil

the awards 2

the second award, also from Search for Common Grounds, was presented to Abu Toameh in 2000. It is signed by the same three folks as the first one.

the third award is from the Nationa Press Club - First Place, presented to Khaled Abu Toameh from US News & World Report - Edwin M. Hood Award for Diplomatic Correspondence - July 14, 1994. Signed: Gilbert K., President, National Press Club, and the President of the National Press Foundation, D. L.

this is the information I managed to collect from folks who know Abu Toameh and who have seen the awards.

thanks abu jamil

proof that he writes for US News & World Report [3]

http://www.usnews.com/topics/author/khaled_abu_toameh

BBC link - Abu Toameh listed as "consultant" to documentary broadcast on BBC

ARFAT INVESTIGATED

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/correspondent/transcripts/arafat_investigated_09_11_03.txt

MOONSTONE FILMS

CORRESPONDENT

ARAFAT INVESTIGATED

Tiamut constantly trying to discredit Toameh as a journalist by making it seem as if he's |affilaited" with "pro-Israel" groups just because they invited him to lecture.

I wonder what Tiamut's agenda is?

I'm here to write an encyclopedia that brings together information from reliable sources about the various subjects it covers. You? Tiamut^talk 13:24, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Tiamut constantly trying to discredit Toameh as a journalist by making it seem as if he's "affiliated" with "pro-Israel" groups just because they invited him to lecture.

spelling correction. - "affiliated" also, it's Not CANADIAN House of Commons. It's BRITISH.. just in case Tiamut you don't know where the House of Commons is.

If you actually read the article House of Commons, you would see that there is more than one (including one in Canada). After reading your note and reviewing the link provided for the information included, I corrected myself, removing "Canada" and wikilinking to House of Commons of the United Kingdom. Thank you for your comments and have a nice day. Tiamut^talk 13:26, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

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Category

I think he belongs on this page. But I don't permission to edit the page. Can you someone add https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Muslim_supporters_of_Israel&action=edit RCrew92