Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel

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WikiProject Israel (Rated Project-class)
This page is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Proposal to merge the templates History of Israel and History of PalestineEdit

Israeli Food to be added to Kosher WikiCookbookEdit

The b:CookbookKosher wikibook has no recipes, and I'd really love to see some there. Would anyone be able to throw a kosher or israeli recipe up? TimeEngineer (talk) 05:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

East JerusalemEdit

User:Supreme Deliciousness has been removing Israel-related categories from the articles Jehohanan, Large Stone Structure, and Shebna inscription, because these archaeological discoveries took place in East Jerusalem. I am under the impression that East Jerusalem has been annexed by Israel.

Anyone care to clarify whether East Jerusalem is within this project's scope? Dimadick (talk) 15:40, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

The international community does not recognize East Jerusalem as part of Israel. The area is disputed. Per npov we can therefor not make the claim that the area is "in Israel." Dimadick, please revert yourself at these three articles. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:51, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
For areas that have been formally annexed, I think it makes sense to have categories of both Israel and Palestine. For example, Crimea is categorised as both a region of Ukraine and Russia. In line with WP:BRD, Dimadick need not revert until consensus is reached. Number 57 15:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
I agree with your proposal, but it is actually Supreme Deliciousness who should stop reverting - he made the change to a longstanding version of the article, and it was reverted. The onus is on him to show consensus for his suggested change. Kenosha Forever (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
The longstanding consensus is that we do not describe occupied territories as part of Israel. The cats should follow that consensus. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
The longstanding consensus on that page is to have that category. If you want to change, start a discussion. Kenosha Forever (talk) 20:59, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Could you please show me the "longstanding consensus on that page is to have that category." ? Someone added a cat to a few fringe articles very few watches and its not noticed and it sits there because nobody noticed... how is that consensus? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:16, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Have you read WP:Consensus? "Consensus is a normal and usually implicit and invisible process across Wikipedia. Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus. " Kenosha Forever (talk) 01:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The edits to include "Archaeological discoveries in Israel" in the three articles is disputed by me.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 01:17, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Those edits were in the article since their creation, nearly two years, and were not disputed, thus they have consensus. You are now, nearly two years later, coming in to dispute it, and so the next sentence of WP:Consensus then applies: "Should that edit later be revised by another editor without dispute, it can be assumed that a new consensus has been reached. ". But your later change has been disputed, almost immediately, thus we can't assume it has consensus. You need to show that there's a consensus for your new version, and you haven't done so. Them's the rules. Kenosha Forever (talk) 02:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
They were not disputed at that point of time because they were not seen. Now they are seen and they are disputed. The cats never had consensus. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:10, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
When did this "formal annexation" occur?Selfstudier (talk) 16:35, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation
Jordanian annexation of the West Bank
Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem

Selfstudier (talk) 17:28, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Compromise: I suggest a compromise, to create a new category: "Archaeological discoveries in Jerusalem" and then to have Israel and Palestine cats within it. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:16, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

It's pointless, and inconsistent with your argument (if you argue that an article related to Jerusalem cannot be in an Israel category, why is it ok for a category related to Jerusalem be in an Israel category?). Just have the articles in both relevant national categories. Number 57 12:51, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The reason why the cat "Archaeological discoveries in Israel" can not be in the articles is because they aren't in Israel. My suggestion was a compromise. Its not good, but a lesser evil of the two options.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:10, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
They are in Israel under Israeli law, and it's not clear why having the article in a category that is still in an 'in Israel' category is the lesser of the two evils. This just seems to be about making a point rather than anything constructive. Number 57 13:20, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The international community does not recognize this Israeli proclaimed law. Why should Wikipedia follow Israeli view instead of the world view? How is that npov? My suggestion cat is not "in Israel", its "in Jerusalem", There could be a sentence inside the cat saying that Israel occupies the city and has declared it as its capital but its internationally unrecognized. The Israel and Palestinian cats would then be placed inside the "Archaeological discoveries in Jerusalem" cat.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:03, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Likewise, the international community does not recognise the Russian occupation of Crimea. Including both categories is the simplest solution to dealing with this issue and this really shouldn't be a big deal. Number 57 14:46, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with the Crimea dispute but different disputes have different solutions. What might be a good solution there might not be good in this case. For example, going by your argument, then we should also have Palestinian category's in city's like Haifa and Nazareth because there are Palestinian organizations that claim the entire area as Palestine and the entire area is infact disputed. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:06, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
This is a bit ridiculous (although I suppose this is where you end up if you're basically just on WP to push a POV). Claiming territory is clearly different to having control of and annexing it. Number 57 18:23, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Do you remember saying this? "It would be best to be able to leave this field blank for Israeli settlements, as (is the case of ones in the West Bank), they aren't really in any country." A POV pusher calling someone else a POV pusher, that's rich.Selfstudier (talk) 18:43, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
We're not talking about the West Bank, we're talking about East Jerusalem. Number 57 19:15, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
QED.Selfstudier (talk) 19:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Someone is claiming the annexation occurred by way of Jerusalem Law ie in 1980, I looked at Jehohanan and it is discovery in 1968. So wrong even if the annexation were valid.Selfstudier (talk) 14:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Ridiculous, that's not how these categories work, here, or elsewhere. The Gezer Calendar , for example, was discovered in 1908, but is correctly listed in the "Archaeological discoveries in Israel" category . Statue of Ebih-Il is correctly listed as discovered in Syria, even though its discovery predated the creation of that state by 10 years or more. You might want to thing through your logic here, because it would preclude virtually anything from being listed under the "Archaeological discoveries in Palestine" category. Kenosha Forever (talk) 17:34, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
No problem for finding things in Palestine Nur Masalha (2018). Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History. Zed. ISBN 978-1-78699-273-4. Bit difficult finding anything in Israel before 1948.Selfstudier (talk) 17:53, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Nope. "Palestine" as country, exists at best from 1988. But again think though your logic - Jerusalem was the capital city of the Kingdom of Israel long before 1968.Kenosha Forever (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2021 (UTC), not even worth a reply.Selfstudier (talk) 18:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
"Jerusalem was the capital city of the Kingdom of Israel long before 1968." What? The capitals of the Kingdom of Israel were Shechem, Penuel, Tirzah, Samaria. Jerusalem was instead a capital of the Kingdom of Judah. Dimadick (talk) 23:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Dimadick, It was also the capital of the United Monarchy - Kingdom_of_Israel_(united_monarchy), not that its status as capital is in any way relevant to this discussion. Kenosha Forever (talk) 01:39, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

New WikiProject Israel sub-page entitled WikiProject Israel/BooksEdit

To Whom it May Concern: We have just added another WikiProject Israel sub-page entitled Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel/Books, copyedited from an existing page Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Books, with minor changes, since the page primarily concerns books treating on the historical Land of Israel, from a historical-geographical perspective: i.e. its towns, villages, historical sites, archaeological sites, etc. before the founding of a political state in the mid-20th century. The page is meant to serve as a data-base for resource material related to the geography of the Land of Israel, as recorded by travelers, researchers, archaeologists, in the past few centuries. The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) has extensively made use of the research material provided by the British Survey of Western Palestine, their maps and general information of sites visited by them in the late 1800s. Any avid scholar of Jewish history, geography, and demographics of the country, should have these resources at his disposal. They are an important and invaluable source for editors working on articles related to the above fields.Davidbena (talk) 18:45, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Casualties of Israeli attacks on the Gaza StripEdit

Casualties of Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip may need a review for NPOV. Relatively low profile article with most text by one user. May be fine, but just wanted to flag it for attention. I've renamed the title to simplify but it seems to have strong overlap with some kind of Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip - it may be worth moving it to that? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 10:58, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Merge proposal for Hillula of Rabbi Shimon bar YochaiEdit

Following recent disaster in Meron, Hillula of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai is proposed to be merged into Tomb of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai. You can participate here. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 20:53, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

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