Talk:John Challis

Animator

- Under job it says "animator". When has Challis been an animator? Just like to know. (: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.193.188 (talk) 16:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Now removed. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:48, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

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Date of death

Is there a reliable source for his date of death? The press release, from Only Fools and Horses News, on Twitter did not give any. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:07, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

According to The Sun, Challis died Sunday Morning.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/16181802/john-challis-death-latest-only-fools-horses-boycie-tributes/

217.213.130.54 (talk) 16:34, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

The Sun is not a reliable source- its use is depreciated on Wikipedia. Wait for a decent news outlet to post a confirmation date. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:54, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, agree. Most broadsheet obituaries should confirm a date of death within the next 24 hours. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I see that SkyNews has now been added by User:Zeljko here, , but I'm struggling to see a date. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

How about this? :

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john-challis-only-fools-and-horses-actor-who-played-boycie-dies-aged-79-q7z03fclf

Acceptable enough?

194.69.14.132 (talk) 06:24, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, can't see it, as it's behind paywall. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:10, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Date now verified by this source. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if its behind a paywall: there is nothing in any policy or guideline that stops it being used, particularly a mainstream UK broadsheet. Please don't remove reject sources just because you don't have access to it. - 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 11:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Way off topic now
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I removed SkyNews source, because it did not support the claimed date. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 20 September 2021 (UTC) It doesn't matter if it's behind a paywall, however we need to know it's correct (so a simple quote for the text to support death date would have sufficed). We also don't just assume things are correct if we can't access them. But all good now anyway, as a non-paywalled source confirms it. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:07, 20 September 2021 (UTC) A quote from The Times, in the ref, might also still be useful. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:09, 20 September 2021 (UTC) A quote would have been ridiculous "Quote=19 September 2021" is laughable. Just in case you've all forgotten it WP:PAYWALL says "Do not reject reliable sources just because they are difficult or costly to access. Some reliable sources may not be easily accessible." Don't delete them, and they don't need a pointless quote just because you want to see a date repeated yet again. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 12:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC) Adding a quote shows that someone who has access has verified the pertinent fact? It's standard practice. Whether there's a paywall or not. For all I know The Times may have given an exact time of day. I don't see any "bloat" problem. But exactly when did I delete a reliable source here? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:45, 20 September 2021 (UTC) "Quote=19 September 2021". Brilliant. The time of day is too obvious as a straw man, whether there's a paywall or not. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 12:47, 20 September 2021 (UTC) A time of day, or at least a phrase such as "in the early hours", "just before midnight", etc. often confers a higher degree of accuracy to a report and suggests it's not just been copied from somewhere else. How is that a "straw man"? A useful quote might be, e.g. "He died on Sunday morning", or whatever. Could you answer my question about me deleting sources here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:54, 20 September 2021 (UTC) Nonsense. WP:PAYWALL is what you should be going by, not some made up nonsense you've made up (it's just bad faith passive-aggressive nonsense). And if someone is falsifying the presence of a fact in a paywall source, then do you think they are beyond falsifying a quote too? All if which is still a massive straw man, and none of which is needed because of WP:PAYWALL being what you should have followed in the first place. I'll leave you to bluster a bit more, I'm sure, but WP:PAYWALL, WP:PAYWALL, WP:PAYWALL overrules whether you think you believe something or not. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 13:08, 20 September 2021 (UTC) When you have a moment's pause from your ranting... When exactly did I remove The Times source, as you accused me of doing? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2021 (UTC) All we did is ask for a quote from that source to help everyone verify. Stop accusing people of removing things, when they didn't. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC) There’s no ranting, so perhaps you could stop with the personal attacks? Please add WP:CIVIL and WP:PAYWALL to you’re reading list. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:426:7C57:5BE8:4619 (talk) 13:25, 20 September 2021 (UTC) You've been ranting all over the ITN page too. Time to take a chill pill, I think. And kindly stop reverting my hat note at the ITN Nomination page. That "discussion" doesn't belong there. Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC) Nice passive-aggressive rubbish to cover your ineptitude on a lack of knowledge of what is a rather basic guideline. I opened your hating just once (a nice trick to have a last word and close the thread at the same time - really having ones cake and eating it). Either way, I’m still not ranting, and have no need for a “chill pill”, despite the ongoing accusations. It really is like stepping into a school playground, visiting Wikipedia talk pages. Hopefully self-awareness or maturity will arrive before the block log gets over-long or permanent. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:426:7C57:5BE8:4619 (talk) 13:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC) Dear anon BT IP-hopper from Sutton. Time to stop with the hysterical over-reaction now, I suggest. Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Anon IP, you accuse me above of "rejecting" The Times source. In fact you claim "sources" plural. When did I do that? At ITN/Nom I merely pointed out that The Times article was behind a paywall and so I could not verify it. I suggested enhancing it with a quote. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

You also say, in the passage you have hatted (for no good reason) above: "Nice passive-aggressive rubbish to cover your ineptitude on a lack of knowledge of what is a rather basic guideline." That looks to me like a pretty blatant personal attack? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Here is Telegraph's obituary, since it is also behind a paywall I copied the text. The date of death is at the very end :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2021/09/20/john-challis-actor-endeared-millions-tv-viewers-boycie-fools/

(Redacted)

I hope this can put an end to this pointless debate... 194.69.14.132 (talk) 14:42, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Are you aware of Wikipedia's copyright policies? The only part that's relevant to this debate (which is far from "pointless") are the final four words. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Discogs entry

There was an entry for "John Challis (5)" that I was updating, but it disappeared during editing. Added data, but when I tried to save, it says no longer there. Seems he is now "John Challis (3)". 2001:56A:FA85:3800:C67:4356:694E:D47E (talk) 23:42, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that's the right one. But sound recordings are not a significant element in his career. And it's not WP:RS anyway. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

First marriage

The infobox says he was first married to Jean Robertson in 1966 and then divorced. The Personal Life and Death section says he was first married to Carol Robertson from 1965 to 1966. Does anyone know which is correct? Editrite! (talk) 03:44, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

I think " Carol Robertson" is a typo, so have changed it to match infobox. But good sources seem to be in short supply. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:37, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

The Daily Express says they married in 1964 and divorced in 1966: [1]. But FreeBMD suggests their marriage was registered in the first quarter of 1966. So the marriage could have been in 1965. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:20, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Home

This source, dated January 2018 says they lived in North Herefordshire, in the countryside near Leintwardine, Shropshire. So presumably no longer at the Abbot's Lodgings at Wigmore Abbey Grange, Adforton, Herefordshire? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:24, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

As Wigmore Abbey Grange in only 2 miles from Leintwardine, I guess we can assume this was the same place. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

House Detectives

The list of TV credits does not include Challis's appearance on "House Detectives" where the team of historians investigated his home which was a group of medieval buildings (presumably Wigmore Abbey Grange but I don't remember) EricPolymath (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

I realise that the entire "Filmography" is currently unsourced, but do you have a source? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a6657/house-detectives-go-to-hertfordshire/ EricPolymath (talk) 20:42, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Eric. Unfortunately, although there is an article for the US TV series House Detective we do not seem to have one for the UK's House Detectives. But I don't see why it couldn't be added to the article text. I'm glad to say that, thanks to User:Spy-cicle, the references for the "Filmography" section are now very much improved. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Place of death

In the absence of any reports to the contrary I think most people would assume that Challis died at home, and that this home was Wigmore Abbey Grange, Adforton in Herefordshire. But I'm not sure it should be explicitly stated in the text and/or added to the infobox without a clear source. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:01, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I would probably say no for now and err on the side of caution to avoid possibly WP:OR, etc.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 09:34, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Also to save opening up another section, I might be able to get a chance to improve referencing on the filmography tables, etc so this can hopefully appear at RD. I know BFI has more entries to fill in but if you cannot find RS entries for the works, we could at least for the time being comment them out until one is found (per WP:ONUS WP:V), so this can appear at RD.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 09:36, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Some of the obscure TV appearances are hard to source and some of my additions may be borderline WP:RS. Amy improvements would be very welcome. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Theatre

I've brought this section up to date with many additions and sources. I had to jiggle with the text to make it coherent with the existing content and I hope I haven't disturbed it or inadvertently deleted anything. COI: I met Challis after his performance with Ms Windsor at Festival Theatre, Malvern during the 1993 tour of Entertaining Mr. Sloane. A wonderful actor and one of my favourites, he entertained me for over an hour over a beer. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I thought there was rather too much of Boycie in the TV coverage of his death and barely any mention of everything else he did. Rodericksilly (talk) 09:12, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

How fascinating. Thanks for sharing that, User:Kudpung, I can just picture him as Ed. And many thanks for the improvements. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:25, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

His theatre work is so extensive, as the obits keep coming in with more, I can't keep up with it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:48, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Very important. Most people will probably remember him as the one-dimensional Boycie (especially the Serbs, I suspect). Martinevans123 (talk) 09:19, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for filling all the gaps Martin. It's very time consuming. I hesitated at using those IMDB entries, but no one can say the article is not well sourced! Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:26, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it is time consuming, lol. And one or two are a bit bloggish. I have also not used any IMDB entries, although it seems a little unlikely to me that any of them are actually wrong. Just like discogs.com, even if we know it's 100% correct, we can't use it as it may contain user-generated content Martinevans123 (talk) 13:34, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

p.s. note: 9 hours left before it falls off the bottom of ITN/RD. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:39, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Useful blog

Useful blog with images: [2]. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:30, 26 September 2021 (UTC) Note: Warning

Date of death

The date of death on his coffin is listed as 17th September rather than 19th (when it was announced), as seen here https://twitter.com/BeingBoycie/status/1444716094644752390 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7E:3637:8900:113:8612:631F:7D29 (talk) 13:24, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct. News was announced on the 19th but he passed on the 17th. Very unlikely there would be an error on his coffin and gravestone. R.I.P. John 🕊️ 2A00:23C4:F8A0:4C01:996F:46D2:34CD:5E91 (talk) 15:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)