Talk:Innisfallen (disambiguation)

Requested move 14 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, using (ship) as disambiguator for the set index of ships. The third move is null so not performed. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 22:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

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• Innisfallen (disambiguation) → Innisfallen
• Innisfallen → Innisfallen (shipname) (( or alternately Innisfallen (ship) ))
• Innisfallen Island → Innisfallen Island

– According to Google, the ships/shipname is not the primary topic of "Innisfallen" -- 67.70.27.105 (talk) 10:58, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support as per nom, no primary topic. WP:NCS would seem to suggest that Innisfallen (ship) is the right disambiguator. 162 etc. (talk) 15:02, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
• comment you got Innisfallen Island moveing to itself—blindlynx (talk) 17:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support Innisfallen (disambiguation) → Innisfallen as well as Innisfallen → Innisfallen (ship) [entries under Category:Set indices on ships indicate the use of "(ship)"]. However, the third nomination — Innisfallen Island → Innisfallen Island — may be possibly the result of a malformed attempt at not leaving blank the third request line in the "Requesting multiple page moves" form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support Innisfallen (disambiguation) → Innisfallen and Innisfallen → Innisfallen (ship). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:20, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support Innisfallen (disambiguation) → Innisfallen. The existing Innisfallen page should be renamed to List of ships named Innisfallen and the content made to conform to a ship set index page. The information about the first three ships which were lost should be incorporated in the relevant List of shipwrecks in xxxx pages, the small amount of detail about the later 3 ships could be added to British and Irish Steam Packet Company Lyndaship (talk) 12:02, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
• Partly support Innisfallen was vastly important as a medieval centre of learning, which is why ships were named after it. The place / abbey is clearly the primary reference. So definately move the ships to Innisfallen (ships). However, I would leave the disambig where it is and move Innisfallen Island to Innisfallen. Since "Innis" means "island", "Innisfallen island" is slightly absurd. Besides, the article currently at Innisfallen Island is not just about the island, but is also about the abbey. So move THAT to the main Innisfallen space. --Doric Loon (talk) 15:20, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Further to that, I have just checked a series of maps, and none of them have "Innisfallen Island" - it is always just "Innesfallen". If you Google "Innisfallen Island", you will get a few hits, but I suspect they are mostly influenced by the erroneous title on Wikipedia. --Doric Loon (talk) 16:04, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Based on this, I would also support a move from Innisfallen Island → Innisfallen (island). There is still no primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 14:06, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Just as a point of information, do we have a rule about how to define a primary topic? I personally would have thought the island was the primary topic, because it came first and everything else was named from it. If we define it by importance, the abbey is obviously primary because of its influence on medieval European learned culture. I don't know much about ships, but the article doesn't suggest that any of those ships were particularly renowned for anything. But obviously importance depends on what you are interested in.--Doric Loon (talk) 16:53, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@Doric Loon: The guideline is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but it's far from simple! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:32, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support the island gets more views (307) than the ships list (201)[[1]] and the island probably has more long-term significance and Google Maps just uses "Innisfallen" for the island. What is the 3rd move about? Both targets are the same, did you mean to move to something like Innisfallen (island)? Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:34, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
  • It was an affected page, as one could construe the island or its abbey as the primary topic instead, so affected by the rename if one were to think that way. -- 67.70.27.105 (talk) 06:31, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

That's great. However, the issues concerning Innisfallen Island which were mentioned a propos have been left unresolved. I have started another move request at Talk:Innisfallen Island. Perhaps those who were involved here would like to look in there too? --Doric Loon (talk) 09:53, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfallen Island obviousprimary topic

To state the obvious there seem to be three candidates for primary topic on this page:

• Innisfallen Island. This has grandfather rights.
• Various ships named Innisfallen. The're always named after something.
• Innisfallen Castle, which was named after Innisfallen Island.

I suggest Innisfallen Island has the primary topic right. Djm-leighpark (talk) 09:58, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

What you would need to do is either an WP:RM of Innisfallen Island to Innisfallen together with Innisfallen to Innisfallen (disambiguation), or an WP:RM of Innisfallen to Innisfallen (disambiguation) with Innisfallen then being a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Innisfallen Island. Neither of those courses of action was covered by the above RM. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

I have mainly arrived here on the ships, having created MV Leinster (1968), as a spin off from aborted Cork Harbour stuff, and ended up touching Innisfallen ships. In general we have 3 topics, The Island, the Annuls, and the abbey, related but dimensionally different, are being kludged into two articles. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 14:58, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

People following this conversation wish to examine a new move request at Talk:Innisfallen Island -- 67.70.27.180 (talk) 00:01, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Djm-leighpark about the primary topic.--Doric Loon (talk) 12:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)