Talk:Feodor Vassilyev

Untitled

Feodor Vassilyev is clearly a man as "Feodor" is a common Russian male name. So it is a "he", not a "she" and he could not have given "birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets". What is the deal here? I hope this is not some sort of a hoax. Nsk92 (talk) 13:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The record-breaking mother is known only as "the wife of Feodor Vassilyev", her name is not recorded. She is apparently in the Guinness Book of Records for having given birth to 69 children from 27 pregnancies - all pregnancies resulting in multiple births. Fanx (talk) 22:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

This sounds unbelievably hokey - 69 births from 27 pregnancies, and not one single birth - are there modern medical parallels for this type of multiple birthing? 86.159.39.121 (talk) 22:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I first read this in the Guinness Book of World Records back in the early 1970s. In over 30 years, they haven't removed it yet, so they must have verified it by now. Entrybreak (talk) 15:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

This in not a hoax it can be found in multiple documentations, some found in the Guinness Book of World Records, and it has even been noted in a few other books. Just look it up. A quote directly from the Guinness Book of World Records 2008, " The Greatest officially recorded number of children born to one mother is 69, to the wife of Feodor Vassilyev (1702-82), a peasant from Shuya, Russia."—Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyeliam (talk • contribs) 21:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait, why does the father have an article on here while the poor hyper-pregnant Valentina Vassilyeva is just an also-mentioned? Antigravityece (talk) 20:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

• How did you find that the name of his wife was Valentina? None of the sources I have seen mention her first name. If there are solid references available regarding her first name, it'd certainly be appropriate to change the name of the article to Valentina Vassilyeva. Nsk92 (talk) 04:23, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Oh, I see that the name Valentina had been added by an IP editor a while ago. I have removed the name from the article for the time being, until and unless it can be verified. Nsk92 (talk) 04:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

First name of Vassilyev's wife

A number of (mostly IP) editors have attempted to add (without specifying any sources) Valentina as the first name of Feodor Vassilyev's first wife. I have looked into the matter carefully and could not find any sources passing WP:V to support the claim that her first name was Valentina. In particular, I looked at a number of early sources reporting Feodor Vassilyev's story and none of them mention his first wife's first name. The earliest published source is a 1783 article[1] in The Gentleman's Magazine; there is nothing about her first name there. I also looked up the 1878 article in Lancet (I was able to access it through my university's library site subscription); again, no mention of her first name. The same for the 1933 article of Julia Bell in Biometrika and for the 1989 book of Marie Clay[2]; both of these sources discuss the story in some detail and neither of them says anything about Mrs. Vassilyev's first name. Bashutskyi's 1834 book(full view in googlebooks, [3], p. 75) also does mention her first name. In light of these facts, it seems likely to me calling her Valentina is a recent invention, not supported by reliable sources. If somebody has a ref that they think is solid regarding her first name, please discuss it here first, before adding it to the article. Nsk92 (talk) 16:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

The Guinness book of records does say "(although some sources claim her full name was Valentina Vassilyev)" - but does not give those sources, so this could easily be a wikiloop/citogenesis. - Snori (talk) 07:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Valentina

Why is this page not under "Valentina Vassilyev"? Mr. Vassilyev did nothing out of the ordinary; she's the one holding the record for most children. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.3.180.224 (talk) 20:18, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Because, as noted above, we don't know her name. - Snori (talk) 23:40, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

The article clearly relates the children to the woman ("His first wife is claimed to have lived (...) have had 69 children (...). : the record for most children born to a single woman ". Are all those children son and daughters of Feodor Vassilyev? If so, I think that the article should be related both to the mother and the father.... --Mezze stagioni (talk) 11:24, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I searched "Valentina Vassilyev" and got her husband's page. My very first though was WTF sort of sexist BS is this? Why is there no Valentina Vassilyev page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.214.82.139 (talk) 18:50, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Re-title and Re-write

The article needs to be RE-TITLED and RE-WRITTEN from the perspective of a woman who had 69 children. This article is a joke -- to say that a man had ~80 children is significant is ludicrous. How many children did the polygamous emperors, war criminals/rapists, etc., have? How many entries are on that in Wikipedia?  

The article should be re-titled "Mrs. Vasilyeva" -- this is the last name of the woman who had 69 children, according to the sources. If her first name is unknown, she can be identified just by her last name.

For this article to stand alone and be written from the man's perspective because his first name is known, but the name of a woman who bore 69 children is unknown, is absurd.

Moreover, the Slavic WP pages on this topic are titled and written from the perspective of a woman.

The article in the current state is an embarrassment to the English WP community. It has been in such a shameful and disgraceful state in English WP for 12 years! Partizan Kuzya (talk) 17:20, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 17 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 08:37, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

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Feodor Vassilyev → Mrs. Vasilyeva – Nom on behalf of Partizan Kuzya above. The woman holds the record for the most number of children born to a single woman, but her name is unknown. Feodor himself does have some claim to notability for having had so many twins & triplets with both wives. I am neutral. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:26, 17 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 01:39, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose the form "Mrs. Vasilyeva" (this surname uses the English transliteration "Vassilyev", although English Wikipedia also has an entry for a 19th-century Russian painter whose name is transliterated as Fyodor Vasilyev), but would support a main title header stating to the effect of "Record number of births for wife of Feodor Vassilyev". This entry appears in ten Wikipedias, seven of which use various transliterations of the father's name as the main header. Among the remaining three, Polish Wikipedia uses the Polish transliteration "Fiodorowa Wasiljewa", a Polish form meaning "Feodor Vassilyev's wife", Russian Wikipedia uses the Russian form meaning "Feodor Vassilyev's multi-child family" and Slovak Wikipedia uses the Slovak transliteration "Valentina Vasilievová". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:05, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - this article covers both of Feodor's wives. Its focused on this man's life. -- Netoholic @ 04:41, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
• Strong Support - Mrs. Vasilyeva is an appropriate name for a woman, according to Russian surname practice and the Russian sources citing this family. "Vasilyev" surname is only used for a Russian male. There is no double "ss" in this Russian surname. Opposition renaming the article to focus on the woman who holds the record supports women's oppression. Another solution is to have two articles: one for Mrs. Vasilyeva and another one for Feodor Vassilyev (Although, it is still no clear to me why he is significant. The Feodor Vasilyev article should discuss clearly sexism of the Guinness Book) Partizan Kuzya (talk) 04:27, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

  That all sounds like guesswork and WP:OR. Totally violates the WP:Verifiability core policy of Wikipedia to just make up information and present it as known fact. I'll also point out the WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS agenda you're presenting with this suggestion. -- Netoholic @ 07:14, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

→Netoholic, your statements sound like "guesswork." Read Russian sources and Russian Wikipedia if you can or consult with someone who knows Russian and familiar with Russian culture before making "guesswork" statements. Partizan Kuzya (talk) 00:31, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. It seems RS center their accounts on Feodor. e.g. "Feodor Vassilyev: a case of remarkable fecundity". It could certainly be questioned whether this is fair, but as Netoholic says, it is not Wiki's place to right great wrongs. Colin M (talk) 18:55, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

→This is how sexism perpetuates: skewed sexist English sources from 19th century on a foreign subject are supported by 21st century male-dominated community who are indolent to apply common sense and who does not read the original sources. Partizan Kuzya (talk) 00:31, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Total BULLSHIT!

This is all false!!! 108.77.114.176 (talk) 02:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)