Talk:Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:58, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Bad Girl (Rihanna song) → Bad Girl (Chris Brown and others) – This song is not, in any unique way, Rihanna's. The version that she sang on was released as being by "Rihanna Featuring Chris Brown". She did not compose the song: Brown and others did. She has no residual rights in regard to the song, Brown and others have. The version recorded by the Pussycat Dolls, by virtue of being featured in a film, recieved far greater exposure. I'm not necessarily tied to the target mentioned here, but Rihanna as the disambiguator seems wholly inappropriate. Kevin McE (talk) 09:34, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Oppose That's how it has always been done. We write "A song (Main singer's name song)". It has always been like this. I can list several examples if you want. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 09:54, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

But on what basis do you determine that the singer of the lower profile version of the song is the "main singer"? Kevin McE (talk) 10:47, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, by simply seeing what critics write. Or by seeing the liner notes of the album / soundtrack... Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:11, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, I mean well... You should familiarize yourself with music articles or at least do a small research before proposing such things. :) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:13, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose How is it "Chris Brown and others"? Rihanna is the main artist, Brown appears as featured. The Pussycat Dolls then covered it. It's Rihanna's song. I don't think I have ever seen such a ridiculous and thoughtless proposal. What a joke. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 12:09, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

You need to look at WP:AGF, and actually read the proposal. It is Chris Brown and others because there are 6 composers credited, and it seems inappropriate to name all of them. As I have stated, I'm not so much focussed on that specific new destination, as on moving it from the POV title that it currently has. It is not true to say "Rihanna is the main artist" of this song, only that she "is the main artist on one version of the song"; the Pussycat Dolls were the artists on a far better known version of the song. To allocate the song to either recording is POV. Kevin McE (talk) 12:35, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

LOL so much. You really don't have a clue about music articles. You write the main singers name who sings the song only. It doesn't matter that the PCD verison got more exposure, you always list the singer who did the song first. End of discussion, you clearly do not understand. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 12:38, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

And you still haven't actually responded to the point that I made. Rather than assume an insulting tone, that only reflects badly on yourself, stop shouting rules that you are not referencing, and consider the point. To declare that this is a Rihanna song is to promote the POV that her version is the main one. You have no meaningful evidence for this assertion. There is no wikipedia policy that determines the first person to record a song as the name by which it should be disambiguated. Kevin McE (talk) 17:42, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

PCD covered the song. Read cover version please. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:40, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Don't be so patronising. I've read that article, and it says nothing relevant to this discussion. Kevin McE (talk) 18:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

PCD didn't cover this song. Their version was officially released, whilst Rihanna and Brown's only leaked and was probably just a demo, so this article should be named Bad Girl (The Pussycat Dolls song), but I don't think this song is notable at all with only 5 sources. Pancake (talk) 12:50, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

The PCD version would fail notability Pancake. It's Rihanna's version which charted on the US R&B/Hip Hop chart. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 12:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Trust me Kevin, it's definitely not me who looks bad here. You clearly have no idea about music related articles. I do have the information sourced in the article, but you have dug a hole so deep for yourself (which you are probably aware of) that you have no choice but to follow through with your unwise proposal. The song was written for Rihanna, she recorded it, it leaked, then the PCD covered Rihanna's original version. This is how we do things. End of. Your proposal is simply ridiculous. Rihanna's version charted on the US R&B/Hip Hop chart = notability. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 17:57, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

So still no policy to refer to? I have: WP:NPOV. Kevin McE (talk) 18:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose - we have a Billboard source stating that this song is by Rihanna featuring Chris Brown. However, the song may more appropriately titled (Pussycat dolls song) since their song was legally released. This however, is not Chris' song and we do not use a writer in the title. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 23:19, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Not quite: you have a Billboard source stating that one version of this song is by "Rihanna featuring Chris Brown". The very fact that two editors have expressed an opinion that it ought to be disambiguated as a Pussycat Dolls song proves that disambiguation by artist is a matter of opinion. So what is suggested as an NPOV disambiguator? I can only suggest composer, but if people have better ideas, please let's hear them. Kevin McE (talk) 12:09, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Rihanna's is the original though, and we always include the origina first. There is no point moving it to "Bad Girl (The Pussycat Dolls song) as it didn't chart anywhere. No chart, no article. Simple. Another thing you have clearly not researched. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 12:13, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm losing count of how many times you have repeated that assertion without backing it up by any reference to any policy, but you seem to believe that belittling me somehow exempts you from an expectation of being able to do so. There is clearly no consensus in this discussion that Rihanna is the appropriate disambiguator. Kevin McE (talk) 17:08, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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Requested move 19 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song). (closed by non-admin page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:54, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

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Bad Girl (Rihanna song) → Bad Girl (The Pussycat Dolls song) – The whole premise of creating this article has been on the basis that this is a song recorded by Rihanna. However, the song was ultimately released by The Pussycat Dolls as part of the Confessions of Shopaholics soundtrack and therefore they are the predominate and primary artist. Although the leak happened before the release of the soundtrack, the song charted after the soundtrack's release and the subsequent attention that it drummed up. The Rihanna version of the song is not available to legally purchase or download anywhere- it is an anomaly that it exists as a chart listing and Billboard rules no longer allow leaked/bootleg recordings to chart. → Lil-℧niquԐ1 - (Talk) - 12:58, 19 February 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:11, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

• Comment What about Bad Girl (2009 song)? It's a bit unusual and goes against naming conventions but this is an unusual case. Alternatively, Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song)? Axem Titanium (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Per the confidence below, I'll rally behind support move to Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song). Axem Titanium (talk) 20:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
• Comment As it's a soundtrack, maybe Bad Girl (soundtrack) is a better option? It's consistent with other articles about soundtracks. Less Unless (talk) 21:31, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
  • I presume you mean merging this with the content at Confessions of a Shopaholic (film)#Soundtrack and renaming it to Confessions of a Shopaholic (soundtrack)? Axem Titanium (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
    • I meant Bad Girl (soundtrack) as per Category:Film_soundtracks, however after taking a closer look I am in doubt. Taking into account that the whole article is dedicated to the Rihanna's version, the name should then remain as it is. Maybe some of the information can be relocated to Confessions of a Shopaholic (film)#Soundtrack mentioning the case. Less Unless (talk) 15:31, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
      • Well the film is not called "Bad Girl" for starters so I don't think "Bad Girl (soundtrack)" would fit naming conventions. Axem Titanium (talk) 18:27, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support move to Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song), as it seems like the best compromise to me. Both the Rihanna/Chris Brown and the Pussycat Dolls versions are notable, and due to the song's strange history, it may be better to identify it with the movie instead of the artists. This practice has been done for other articles like: Almost There (The Princess and the Frog song), Evermore (Beauty and the Beast song), and Once Upon a Dream (Sleeping Beauty song). Aoba47 (talk) 22:51, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• Move to Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song) as the clearest option in this scenario. feminist (talk) 13:40, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

As the original nominator, I would support Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song). Its very unusual for the leaked/unofficial version of a song to chart whilst a different artist releases the official version. → Lil-℧niquԐ1 - (Talk) - 08:50, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Bad Girl (Confessions of a Shopaholic song)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Result: Delisted. Legitimate concerns, no opposition or improvements made; Matters raised in the reassessment were not addressed. These matters will remain valid until the next GA Review, whereupon they must be addressed first. --Whiteguru (talk) 20:54, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Starts GA Reassessment. The reassessment will follow the same sections of the Article. Thank you --Whiteguru (talk) 01:55, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

 

Instructions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment

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Observations

   HTML document size: 102 kB
   Prose size (including all HTML code): 6633 B
   References (including all HTML code): 11 kB
   Wiki text: 8562 B
   Prose size (text only): 3964 B (690 words) "readable prose size"
   References (text only): 2822 B

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

• Page has two infoboxes due two productions of this song (released) and (leaked) for this film. Infoboxes accepted.
• The lead provides a reasonable introduction.

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

• Reference 1 is an archived purchase link on Amazon. (not admissible)
• Reference 2 is a play sample (Primary, not a proper reference)
• Reference 3 is about the leaked version of this song. (OK)
• Reference 4 is about the two versions of this song soundtrack and leaked version. (OK)
• Reference 5 is a review of all songs on the film - this song gets a mention. Is all. (mention, only)
• Reference 6 is a dead link. (About Rhianna chart history.)
• Earwig copyvio check gives a 74% copyvio from this source.

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

• The references do not give a sufficiently broad coverage of this song track.

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

• Opinions about two different recordings of this song by different groups are presented.
• There is criticism going each way in the references.

1. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

• Page created 8 March 2012
• Page has 103 edits by 49 editors
• 90 day page views = 706 with a daily average of 8 page views
• Page obtained GA status 12 May 2012
• InternetArchiveBot has rescued two dead links;
• Page has been subject to a number of move discussions due participation by different artists.
• Page history shows stability, no edit warring observed

1. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

• Page has one image appropriately labelled and licensed.
• File:Pussycat Dolls w trasie koncertowej z Britney Spears.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license.

1. Notifying Editors:

• Page Creator Calvin999 notified;
• Editor Ser Amantio di Nicolao notified;
• Editor Status notified;
• Editor Razr Nation notified;
• Editor Wikipedian Penguin notified;
• Editor Aoba47 notified;
• A total of six involved editors were able to be notified.

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1. Overall:

• There is a serious copy violation here which forms a major part of this article.
• References do not provide a broad coverage.
• Discussion is opened to involved editors. Considered not to merit GA status at this review. --Whiteguru (talk) 13:08, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

 

 On hold for one week

 

• Comment. The 74% copyvio source says: "Source: [2]. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." (CC) Tbhotch^™ 17:08, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
  • noted and struck out --Whiteguru (talk) 02:01, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

 

    Result: Delisted. Legitimate concerns, no opposition or improvements made; Matters raised in the reassessment were not addressed. These matters will remain valid until the next GA Review, whereupon they must be addressed first. --Whiteguru (talk) 20:54, 10 July 2021 (UTC)