Talk:2011 Maltese divorce referendum

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For further improvement of the page: [1] --195.117.99.144 (talk) 18:02, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Sark

I included in the article a source stating that divorce is also illegal in the British Crown Dependency of Sark. An IP removed it claiming it's out of date but failed to give a source supporting this view. I'm aware that the courts in Guernsey can legally create divorces if they go to Guernsey but not in Sark. Any opposition to putting it back in the list of countries where divorce is illegal? The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I object. As I had to opportunity to remind you on another occasion: Sark is not a country.

Demdem (talk) 19:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Already

There has been some discussion as to whether the article should say Around 8% of marriages in Malta are already annulled by the Catholic Church. or simply Around 8% of marriages in Malta are annulled by the Catholic Church. The source, a Guardian article has just this: "About 8% of marriages here are annulled, allowing the ecclesiastical tribunals to take precedence over the state," said Orlando. "It's about church power."

So it could be argued that adding the word "already" is a kind of WP:OR which suggests that annulment is in some way on the way, or half way house (figuratively speaking), towards divorce. But an anon ip editor has argued this is false OR since we should be using annulment in the strict Catholic church sense. The basic idea is that the marriage was not valid from the start, i.e. never actually took place.

I have looked at Annulment (Catholic Church)#Grounds for Nullity which include these:

• Force or grave fear imposed on a person to obtain their consent
• The consent was based on a condition or reservation
• No intention, when marrying, to contract a lifelong relationship (simulation of consent)
• The intention, when marrying, to never have children
• A serious lack of the discretion necessary to consent to marriage
• Psychological incapacity to fulfill the obligations of marriage

To me these seem to be matters which may be "argued" by the statements of the interested party/ parties rather than "proven by evidence"? But is there also civil annulment in Malta? Whether or not there is, does the church allow those who have their marriages annulled to re-marry ("to marry properly for the flrst time")? But, in the absense of civil annulment (or divorce) would this be unlawful?

8% looks quite a lot to me. But what do people think? How much actual difference will the new law make in Malta? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:55, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for presenting the matter with lucidity. I can't understand what's the relevance of including that factoid either here or in the Guardian article. Not only is annulment difference from divorce, as you point out, but the current regime of "voluntary" arbitration in front of Church Tribunals will probably remain the same after a divorce law is enacted. And what's the point being made with the 8% figure (which is inaccurate but there's no need to go into that)? I'd say delete.

Demdem (talk) 21:31, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion, I can see your point. I think the figure should be accurate or not be there at all. Surely that's the crux of the matter here - that annulment currently 'takes the place of' divorce in Malta. But can anyone answer my questions? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:45, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Annulment does not take the place of divorce, and neither is the reverse true. To an outside observer who is unfamiliar with one of them (usually) annulment, such a mistake is made.98.176.4.85 (talk) 23:33, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

And how does the differences between the two appear to a Maltese citizen who is desparate, but unable, to divorce? Could you possibly outline the differences in practical terms? In terms of the outcome of each? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:27, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Link repair request

I just had to mark the link to the Tonio Fenech article as dead because the Wayback Machine stupidly won't allow copy/paste, and the URL contains a character that my softboard doesn't have nor which I can reproduce. I would edit from the PC, but that account's been blocked on account of a nasty little troll who immediately began spoiling things for everyone else from the moment it was last unblocked. 149.254.183.49 (talk) 19:02, 29 December 2014 (UTC)Sheogorath.

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External links modified

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