Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Higher education

Add topic
Active discussions
WikiProject Higher education (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 

Graduation hat.svg   WikiProject Higher education
Main pages
Main project talk
Participants talk
  Participants category talk
Project category talk
Infobox talk
Manual of style
Article guideline talk
Templates talk
  Higher education stubs talk
Departments
Assessment talk
Collaboration of the Month talk
Outreach talk
Articles
List of articles talk
Accomplishments talk
Articles for Deletion talk
  Archive talk
Clean-up List talk
Task Forces
Student Affairs talk
Statistics
Things To Do
  1. Work on articles that need cleanup.
  2. Create a page for every university and college and add {{infobox University}} for it. See the missing list for those institutions still awaiting articles.
  3. Place {{WikiProject Higher education}} on every related talk page.
  4. Combat boosterism wherever it appears
  5. Ensure all articles, including Featured articles, are consistent with the article guidelines.


United States Military Academy FAREdit

I have nominated United States Military Academy for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 22:06, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Kharkiv National Academy of Municipal Economy → Kharkiv National Academy of Urban Economy?Edit

Or another title? Currently, the article is confused, titled one way, talking about the other. Please see, and comment within, Talk:Kharkiv National Academy of Municipal Economy. Thank you. -- Hoary (talk) 03:23, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Now moved. -- Hoary (talk) 12:43, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Should country always be included in the lede sentence?Edit

LessHeard vanU has objected to a few articles about universities in the United States that do not explicitly include "United States" in the lede sentence. This is not required or recommended by our current advice about college and university articles. In my experience - limited almost exclusively but quite extensive - articles about colleges and universities include in the lede an explicit link to the specific town, city, or county in which they are located but they omit the country. Should this practice change? Should we explicitly include the country in the lede sentence of each article about a college or university?

For what it's worth, I would support this change to our advice. I am not particularly bothered by the current practice as readers are always able to view lots of information about the institution's location simply by clicking on the link to the location's article. Moreover, the country is specified in the infobox. But this is a pretty small change that may be helpful for many readers. With that said, I do worry that some editors would perceive this as unnecessary information and would specifically object to linking the country as overlinking.

This change would affect several thousand articles; an RfC would probably be the best way to go if there is some agreement that this change should be made. That would also help get clarity on some important details such as (a) should the country be linked and (b) would this be done for every single article or would exceptions be made for locations that we generally believe are globally recognizable e.g., Boston, London, Paris. ElKevbo (talk) 15:58, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

@Sdkb: You've done work with featured articles in this area. How is this handled and viewed by editors and reviewers in that part of the project? ElKevbo (talk) 15:59, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
To clarify, I objected to the removal of my edit adding the name of the nation to an article per WP:Revert. I then argued that adding the nation to any place or person specific is of general benefit to the encyclopedia as it helps algorithms when people are searching for relevant subjects. My reasons are laid out in my comment to ElKebo's talk page here. I further noted in a subsequent comment that there are eight examples of California in the UK per the wp subjects disambig page. I am a fastidious inclusionist of the name of nations to relevant articles, and would be pleased to learn of the consensus within this area so I may not go against same. LessHeard vanU (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
  • This is an issue I've pondered before, and I have a few thoughts. First, it applies to any geographic entity, not just colleges, so this may not be a wide enough venue. Second, there are actually three separate questions: do you include the country in the short description, do you include it in the first sentence, and do you include it in the infobox? I think the argument is perhaps strongest for the infobox, because putting it there doesn't interrupt the flow of text or cause a length overflow if it ends up being unnecessary.
    Onto my actual opinions. I've brought this up before in this discussion, and the standard I proposed for SD's there is one I think we could also adopt here. Generally, locations should be included up to the narrowest geographic region widely recognizable on an international scale. So for Columbia, New York City alone is sufficient, for Pomona, Claremont, California, and for Brown, Providence, Rhode Island, United States. Of course, "widely recognizable" is highly subjective, but I think we're okay leaving that up to editorial discretion. It's hard to make set-in-stone guidance for things like, since a lot of contextual factors come into play. For instance, you could argue that in a borderline case, a school with a very large international student population should list the country, whereas a community college with only local students next door should not. How does that sound, ElKevbo and LessHeard_vanU? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 17:41, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
    Looking at a selection of British university articles, it appears almost all already include country information (most often the constituent country but sometimes United Kingdom), including the London institutions (where ElKevbo's suggestion wouldn't require it). Robminchin (talk) 04:32, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
    Continuing for a moment with the example of London, I can't believe that anyone looking at an article on a university in London (the British one) wouldn't know that London is in Britain. (Except perhaps very young inhabitants of London, Ont.) Pointing out that London is in England or Britain or the Youkay either insults the intelligence of the readers or suggests that the writers are bonkers, or both. London aside, this summary of indices of economic and other prominence is perhaps usable as a rough guide to which cities are best known. I wouldn't specify the nation for any of them, or for any of a bunch of others (Buenos Aires, Hamburg, Jo'burg, Lagos, Milan, Petersburg, Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo, Zürich...) that somehow don't get into that summary. Just link any where they can be beneficially linked (example, São Paulo). -- Hoary (talk) 09:24, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
    If we go down this road, I strongly prefer consistency i.e., we include country for every article. But I understand that it's common practice in many venues to omit country when there is an assumption that readers probably know it and I would not be surprised if that were the consensus here, too. ElKevbo (talk) 14:04, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
    For myself, per my understanding of the function of an infobox, I would prefer that the inclusion of the nation is in the lead, as the infobox should only contain data that is in the article. Using the infobox only, especially as it does not render in all media, defeats this. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your thoughts, Sdkb. I agree that this line of questioning should apply to any physical or geographic entity, not just colleges and universities, but that is much broader than my experience, my expertise, and the remit of this project, so I would like to keep this focused on colleges and universities.
I agree that we could operationalize this in three separate questions: (a) Should country be required in the short description for each article about a college, university, or other postsecondary education institution? (b) Should country be required in the first sentence for each article about a college, university, or other postsecondary education institution? and (c) Should country be required do you include it in the infobox for each article about a college, university, or other postsecondary education institution?
The first two questions seem to be straight forward. There are several institutions that have a presence in multiple countries so we would need to account for that. I think that there should there be some consideration for the size and scope of the presence for that country to be included e.g., only include countries for which the institution has a significant, meaningful, and ongoing presence.
I'm not sure that question c about the infobox is necessary as it already appears to be the common practice. But it could not hurt to include it to firmly document this practice and make it a recommendation supported by a clear consensus.
Should we address whether the country should or must be linked? In my experience, there is not consistency. I typically remove links to "United States" with WP:OVERLINKING as my rationale. But I would personally prefer to include the link and make this consistent across all of these articles.
How do we address the other levels of geography e.g., state, province? ElKevbo (talk) 14:29, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
There is no need to link to the US, per WP:OVERLINKING, and have removed wikilinks when editing. My short rationale is that when searching for an educational site on google individuals may be uncertain what State a place may be in (obviously if the state name is included in the institution, then this is moot) and ignorant of the city or town. However, searching by name and nation will provide a quick result. I realise that not all subjects that are peculiar to a country has the name of the nation in the lead, but in my experience that is because the contributors are unable to comprehend that a reader will not know what part of the world they are inferring. When you have seen as many articles as I have that only mention a large town or city without reference to a larger geopolitical area or nation, the lack of doing same is not a matter of consensus but conscientiousness. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Dispute about inclusion of recent lawsuit in Shawnee State UniversityEdit

There is a discussion about whether a recent lawsuit should be included in Shawnee State University. You're welcome to join the discussion in the article's Talk page. ElKevbo (talk) 16:20, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Dispute about including costs at Montgomery College articleEdit

There is a discussion about whether information about costs should be included in Montgomery College, per WP:UNIGUIDE. You're welcome to join the discussion in the article's Talk page. CUA 27 (talk) 15:18, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Dispute about material in the lede sentence of Indiana University–Purdue University IndianapolisEdit

Multiple editors disagree about material currently included in the lede sentence of Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis. Additional input is welcome. ElKevbo (talk) 01:55, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sourcesEdit

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

  • John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

LGBT Prohibition Article SectionsEdit

There is a member who has been adding LGBT Prohibition article sections to many US Christian universities. This is not a standard section according to the Higher Education article template. I have recommended putting specific incidents in a university's history section where it is significant and trustworthy but the user keeps adding entire new sections to the articles. See for example Concordia Irvine, Malone University et al. Boyerling3 (talk) 13:27, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

I think this could belong in the history section or perhaps elsewhere but I agree that a separate, dedicated section is probably not the best place for this information in most articles. Feel free to move the information or propose moving it in the articles' Talk pages.
Additionally, I've noticed that one or more editors added information to multiple articles about institutions listed in a ranking of "Worst Colleges for LGBTQ Students" or something along those lines. That information, like any other ranking or categorization, needs to be accompanied by the date on which the ranking was made; this helps readers and editors understand if the information is current or outdated. ElKevbo (talk) 00:50, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Galgotias University Campus One#Requested move 16 April 2022Edit

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Galgotias University Campus One#Requested move 16 April 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 13:01, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Recent edits to professorship articlesEdit

I've been mucking about on-and-off with some admin related to professorship articles over the past week. (Starting with Jacksonian Professor of Natural Philosophy and then expanding in scope...) I thought it might be useful to write down somewhere what I'm doing in case anyone is wondering what the rationale for these changes was, and also to socialise some of the decision I haven't made.

  • Article titles
    • Format: There was lots of different formats for these, (e.g. "Title Chair of Subject", "Title Professorship of Subject", "Title Professor of Subject"). In general, the last format was the most common so I've been moving some pages over for consistency. It also follows precedent for e.g. President of the United States (not Presidency) and Duke of Norfolk (not Dukedom).
    • Disambiguation:
      • I've again been standardising towards the most-common existing practice: adding the name of the University/institution in parenthesis, omitting the words University of and University as redundant in context (same precedent as for constituent colleges and sports programmes). Some generic titles are pre-emptively disambiguated in this way, e.g. Professor of Gaelic (Glasgow), which seems reasonable so I've left them alone.
      • Some professorships are currently disambiguated by year only, e.g. Professor of Astrophysics (1909). This strikes me as unhelpful, as the year of foundation is probably one of the more likely things a reader might be trying to find out and is likely to be less obvious than the institution. I'd suggest moving these to "Professorship (University)" where possible (or "Professorship (University, Year)" if not, though I doubt there's any need for multiple articles in that case). I haven't done this yet, but I might in future.
  • Categorisation
    • Set theory: Done some little work trying to disentangle categories for people who hold professorships from categories for professorships themselves, but this is nowhere near complete.
    • Sort keys: There was pretty much zero consistency here (articles variously sorted by subject, title, year or with no key), so I've been bold and eventually settled on a convention of my own that works well:
      • The template for a default sort key for a professorship is "Professor of [Subject], [Title], [Institution (if needed)], [Year (if needed)]". For general-interest categories, that results in professorships being found under 'p', then sorted by subject, then title, then university, then year.
      • For more specific categories, omit as much of the template as appropriate. e.g. for a category holding professorships at a specific university, the template would become "[Subject], [Title], [Year (if needed]".
      • As above, omit the words University or University of from institutions.
      • Normal sort key rules about names and numbers apply within these blocks, so use "Professor of Executions, Charles 1, King" for the King Charles I Professor of Executions.
      • Last wrangle: for untitled professorships, I've included a * in place of a title – this means all plain "Professor of Subject (Institution)" articles get sorted together above titled professorships, rather than being jumbled together alternatively sorted by title or institution.

Most of the above is half-done, so I'll continue to get on with it. I don't think any of it is too contentious, but thought I should offer the opportunity for objection anyway. Also tbh a lot of these articles probably ought to be merged into others by the letter of the Wikipedia rules, but I haven't done that because it's effort and I don't like deleting articles. Charlie A. (talk) 13:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Note that for the Professor of Astrophysics (1909) at the University of Cambridge the "1909" isn't a disambiguator on Wikipedia, but rarher part of the title of the position. It's actually a local disambiguator there to distinguish it from the Professor of Astrophysics (2009) and the Professor of Astrophysics (2011), but forms part of the title as used by the current holder [1]. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:08, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't think I would agree that the date is a part of the title of the position per se, the title is precisely "Professor of Astrophysics" [2], as it is for the 2009, 2011, 2016, and 2018 establishments [3]. They all appear in Ordinances Ch. XI as "Professor of Astrophysics. Year. Institution". But so does e.g. "Regius Professor of Divinity. 1540. Divinity.", and 1540 isn't part of that title – it's just the year of foundation.
What I think is true is that, within Cambridge, years in parenthesis are used to disambiguate identically titled professorships (unless multiple identically titled professorships are established in the same year, where they use the specific date and number of the grace establishing them to disambiguate, though that's only the case for a couple of vestigial 1960s establishments). There might be an argument for using dates per WP:COMMONNAME, but I wouldn't argue that they are anything more than a convenient custom to distinguish between otherwise identical titles. Obviously within the university/on university websites, it's pointless to disambiguate by university(!)
What I would argue is that for a global Encyclopaedia it's significantly more likely a reader would think "there's an old professorship of astrophysics at Cambridge, I wonder how old?" than "there's a professorship of astrophysics dating from 1901, I wonder where?". So for our purposes disambiguation by date is less useful than by institution.
I'm aware that this is very much angels on the head of a pin territory... For that chair I wouldn't move it to "Professor of Astrophysics (Cambridge, 1901)" but rather would move it to "Professor of Astrophysics (Cambridge)" and include in the same article information on the several chairs sharing the same title at the university, as I did for Professor of Political Economy (Cambridge) (see also Professor of Engineering (Cambridge)). As I mentioned, many of these pages don't have sufficient content/notability/third-party references to warrant an article on their own so it makes sense to agglomerate slightly. What do you think? Charlie A. (talk) 21:48, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm relying on Schedule C(vii)1 at page 89ff of the 2021 Statutes and Ordinances [4], where the Astrophysics Chairs are listed as "Astrophysics (1909), Astrophysics (2009), Astrophysics (2011), Astrophysics (2016), Astrophysics (2018), Astrophysics and Cosmology" and the Divinity Chairs as "Divinity (Lady Margaret’s), Divinity (Norris-Hulse), Divinity (Regius)". So I continue to claim that 1909 is part of the title here. However I would be happy with moving Professor of Astrophysics (1909) to Professor of Astrophysics (Cambridge) as long as the article is changed to explicitly include all the chairs and to mention the date issue. I hadn't noticed the amazing "Engineering (1966, Grace 5 of 1 December 1965)", so thanks for that! Jonathan A Jones (talk) 10:59, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
I think the world has greater pleasures for us than debating whether (1909) is an official part of the title or merely the university's standard disambiguator, and I'm happy to make an agglomerated article which makes the matter moot! The grace thing is charming, you can almost hear the implied "that'll have to do". Charlie A. (talk) 22:17, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Proposed move: Category:Professors of the University of Cambridge to Category:Professors at the University of CambridgeEdit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 10 § Category:Professors of the University of Cambridge. I have proposed standardising towards a convention of using at for institutions and of for subjects, in category names of the format "professor(ship)s [at/of] [institution/subject]" and "[sociologists/historians/etc] [at/of] [institution/subject]" (at least within the Cambridge category tree). I am cross-posting this here as it may set a precedent that would effect other category trees which include professor(ship)s and academics by subject, and we require more input to reach consensus. Charlie A. (talk) 17:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Dispute at UC Berkeley School of Law‎Edit

There is disagreement between editors about recent edits to UC Berkeley School of Law‎. Input from additional editors is welcome. ElKevbo (talk) 02:00, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Dispute about inclusion of honorary alumni at Gustavus Adolphus College‎Edit

Two editors are disagreeing about the inclusion of honorary alumni in Gustavus Adolphus College‎. There is a discussion open in the article's Talk page; additional input is welcome. ElKevbo (talk) 02:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, commented over there.Jahaza (talk) 20:38, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
As this seems to be a recurring issue, perhaps we should hold an RfC or similar to settle it and have something firm to point to whenever it comes up. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 20:59, 21 May 2022 (UTC)