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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Blindfold Me/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 6 January 2021 [1].

Blindfold Me edit

Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 03:11, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above article is about the second single from Kelis' fourth studio album Kelis Was Here (2006). Sean Garrett and Polow da Don wrote and produced the song. It was supported by a remix, which features American rapper Nas, and a music video. As implied in the title, the lyrics are about bondage; this would make the song a seemingly surprising choice for a single if Kelis and Nas had not already collaborated on a track about public sex ("In Public") in 2005.

I had originally worked on this article in 2018, and I was inspired to rewrite and expand it following my FAC on a different Kelis song ("Candy"). I am looking forward to hearing everyone's feedback, and I will do my best to further improve the article. Thank you in advance! Aoba47 (talk) 03:11, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from HĐ edit

  • I don't think a dash in "hip-hop" is needed
  • It was written and produced by Sean Garrett and Polow da Don Is this the remix or the original?
  • It is for the original. I have moved the sentence before the remix part to hopefully make that clear. Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • criticized its placement on the album Interesting. Does this mean that the critics wanted it to be a non-album song? Or any specific reason?
  • No. Critics disliked where the song was placed on the album's track listing. I have copy-edited that sentence to hopefully be clearer. Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Garrett and Polow da Don were one of several new producers I don't think this is grammatically correct?
  • I think it should be Kelis's instead of Kelis' (MOS:POSS)
  • I have corrected this. I am not a fan of the double s's, but since it is part of the MOS, I will incorporate it. Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shouldn't They have collaborated be They had collaborated?
  • Kelis uploaded the music video to her YouTube channel on July 27, 2015.[26] I doubt whether this is correct, as the video could have been uploaded and then removed some time in the past. I'd consider removing this.

More to come.. HĐ (talk) 13:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the comments so far. Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think futuristic hip hop should be in quote
  • Fair point. That was actually me trying to paraphrase from the cited review, but I think using the actual quote would be better. Aoba47 (talk) 06:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am dubious about IGN's reliability as a music source as it is a video game-centric site. I'll leave this to the source reviewer though
  • That is a fair concern. I understand that the coverage in a music FA should be focused more so on music-specific publications. I have removed the IGN parts entirely. Aoba47 (talk) 06:09, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hope and Stylus Magazine's Mallory O'Donnell disliked the remix for feeling uncomfortably voyeuristic into Kelis's sex life with Nas.[9][10] I think you can bundle these two refs into one single ref to make it consistent throughout the article
  • If it is okay with you, I would actually prefer to keep them separate, as I have only bundled three or more citations in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 06:14, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other than the issues I raised, the article is ready for FA. A decent article, as expected from an experienced editor like you! HĐ (talk) 05:50, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the kind words and the review. I know that you are very busy right now with all of the work on the 1989 articles so I am very appreciative of the time and energy you have put here. If there is anything else I can do to improve the article, please let me know. Happy holidays to you! Aoba47 (talk) 06:14, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for addressing my concerns. I support this for promotion based on prose. Good luck with the nomination, and happy holidays to you to! HĐ (talk) 06:45, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Review Support from Homeostasis07 edit

Made a couple of minor fixes as I went along, hope you don't mind @Aoba47: Feel free to peruse my two edits and revert anything you don't like.

Production and release

I'm not sure, but since the Neptunes are a duo, shouldn't this be collaborators?
  • You are correct. I have revised it accordingly. Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In a 2020 interview, Kelis attributed the dissolution of their professional relationship to when they disagreed with her collaborating with other producers for her third studio album Tasty (2003).
Could be rephrased. How about: "In a 2020 interview, Kelis attributed the dissolution of their professional relationship to a disagreement brought about as a result of her collaborating with other producers for her third studio album Tasty (2003)."
  • The second paragraph here has artists', while everywhere else uses s's. Suggest making this consistent.
  • I believe that it should only be s' since it is referring to artists plural? Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Working with the man who made Illmatic and my career like a dream come true. Being able to meet these people and interact with them and have them respect your craft has been great."
  • Suggest somehow rephrasing the first sentence here. I know you're quoting the source text exactly, but "and my career like a dream come true" doesn't make sense. So... "and my career [was] like a dream [coming] true."? Or maybe rephrasing to something like: Garrett said he enjoyed working with his idol Nas, saying it was "like a dream come true. Being able to meet these people and interact with them and have them respect your craft has been great."
  • Revised with your suggestion. Thank you. Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest either removing the "an", or adding another one before "a cappella" and de-pluralizing "versions". Random thought spurred on by this point: I personally believe "Acapella (Kelis song)" to be one of the finest pop songs released this century. Look forward to you nominating that here in the future, Aoba. ;)
  • Good catch. I have removed "an". I love "Acapalla" as well, along with the rest of the entire Flesh Tone album. I should definitely look into working on the song article in the future :) Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics

  • This sexually explicit content received attention for this sexually explicit content,
Please rewrite.
  • Big yikes on my part. I am not sure how I kept reading over that for so long. I have revised it. Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception

"if they kept a similar beat." is a bit vague. You probably want to avoid a direct quote here, so how about "jokingly writing that Kelis and Nas singing about erotic asphyxiation and mummification would be enjoyable if those lyrics were coupled with a beat as good as "Blindfold Me".
  • Revised. Your suggestion is far better so thank you for the suggestion. Aoba47 (talk) 01:33, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, I thought this was a brilliantly written and informative article. Will support once (most of) my points above have been addressed. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 00:38, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Homeostasis07: Thank you for the kind words and your help. You have helped to improve the article immensely. If there is anything else I can do to improve the article, I would be more than happy to do so. I hope you are having a great week and happy holidays! Aoba47 (talk) 01:33, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the prompt response. I'm satisfied with the changes you've made, so am happy to support this nomination now. Good luck with the rest of the nomination, and happy holidays to you too! Hope 2021 is a better year for you & all your loved ones. ;) Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 02:06, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you again! I hope 2021 is a better year for us all for sure. Aoba47 (talk) 02:11, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from SatDis edit

I previously reviewed Candy (Foxy Brown song), featuring Kelis, and I have found this article to match the FA quality of the previous nomination. I find this a very interesting style of music - definitely something I'm not familiar with and a little bit before my "prime"!

  • Lead
  • Although Kelis was the Neptunes's long-time collaborator - Does this mean she was their only collaborator? Could you say Although the Neptunes were long-time collaborators of Kelis
  • She was not their only collaborator. She was one of their major ones though. I have revised this with your recommendation. Aoba47 (talk) 03:25, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • enjoyed Kelis's personality - could you add an adjective before "personality" to add context for first readers? i.e. is it lively? sexual?
  • I have used sexual since it seems to make the most sense with the song and sources. Aoba47 (talk) 03:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, I haven't reached the reception section yet, but as of the lead, reviewers criticised its placement on the album... does that mean the number track it was on the album, or its actual presence on the album? Could that be expanded in the lead too?
  • The critics are talking about how the order the songs are put in the album. This song is placed between two ballads, which is an odd choice given its very sexual concept. I have revised this part to hopefully to be clearer, but let me know if it needs to be clearer. Aoba47 (talk) 03:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • After reading Reception, could you reword lead to its placement on the album's track listing due to a jarring tonal shift or something similar?
  • I have used your suggestion. Thank you for that! Aoba47 (talk) 03:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I appreciate the mention of exclusion from "The Hits" in the prose, I just see this as one critic's view, and I don't think it should be included in the lead. It feels like trivia to me.
  • Fair point. I have removed that part. Aoba47 (talk) 03:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Production and release
  • Just a note that I find the split from her previous collaborators interesting and I'm glad it was included and updated with a 2020 source. :)
  • Thank you. I was fortunate enough to find the 2020 source while updating the article for the FAC. Aoba47 (talk) 03:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a fair point. I have added the link as you suggested it. Aoba47 (talk) 03:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reception
  • Again, showcasing Kelis's personality - add an adjective just to introduce the paragraph clearly?
  • credited Kelis's personality to easing these tonal change - it makes sense, but perhaps something like "artistic versatility" would work better?
  • Charts
  • I think there's a mistake, as it should say "2006" rather than "2001".
  • Yikes. I am not sure how I missed that. Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:41, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great job with the article. It's jarring to read the context of the song after writing about kids' TV, haha! SatDis (talk) 05:40, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • @SatDis: Thank you. Sorry about that ><. I actually feel quite bad about that. Aoba47 (talk) 03:47, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Haha, no, please don't feel too bad! We're all adults here. SatDis (talk) 05:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the citation. I would love to use it because it would be very useful to have another negative review to help bring more balance to the article, but since The Michigan Daily is a student newspaper, I do not believe it would be allowed in a featured article (even if it is published by a very good university). At least, that is my understanding of it. Aoba47 (talk) 03:47, 28 December 2020 (UTC)>[reply]
  • Ah, that's a shame! I wouldn't have realised that was a student journal. Thanks for addressing those comments, I believe the changes made have been done excellently. Well done with the article and I will support. SatDis (talk) 05:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you! I greatly appreciate your comments. That article was still an interesting read nonetheless. Aoba47 (talk) 05:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Heartfox edit

  • Revised in the citation and the prose. Aoba47 (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think clippings need to be given as url-access=subscription; you don't need one to access it
  • Thank you for catching this. I have removed the subscription parts from the citations. I'm still somewhat new to clippings so I always forget this. Aoba47 (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revised in the citation and the prose. Aoba47 (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • listicle is linked twice
  • Removed the second link. Aoba47 (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Heartfox: Thank you for catching my rather silly mistakes. If there is anything else I can do to improve the article, I will be more than happy to do so. I hope you are having a wonderful start to your week! Aoba47 (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – Pass edit

Will get to this later today or tomorrow. Aza24 (talk) 21:33, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you. Take as much time as you need. Aoba47 (talk) 21:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Non ref related but you link Associated Press twice in the body text of the article
  • Removed the second instance. Aoba47 (talk) 02:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • A minute thing, but you have AllMusic A & B but also Kellman a & b, would think they should either both be capital or lowercased
  • Changed so it should all be in capital letters now. Aoba47 (talk) 02:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • thank you for the consistent retrieval dates for non-archived links
  • Thank you. I try my best to be good with citation structures. Aoba47 (talk) 02:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would think the National Post should be included somewhere in the Dunlevy ref; likewise with The Sentinel in the Johnson ref; and Daily Record in Gennet news;
  • Good point. I have added them into the citations. Aoba47 (talk) 02:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • seems to be a stray "]" in the Johnson ref
  • Removed. Very good catch. Aoba47 (talk) 02:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Other than these nit-picks it looks good; I have no doubts over the quality or verifiability of references used. Aza24 (talk) 00:01, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Aza24: Thank you for the comments. You have helped a lot. If there is anything else that could be improved, I will be more than happy to address them. Have a great end of the year! Aoba47 (talk) 02:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good now! Pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 03:44, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image and audio review - pass edit

Images and audio are appropriately licensed or have appropriate non-free use rationales. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Shahid edit

I've made a few minor change; revert me if you disagree with them. The other comments I have now:

  • "In a 2020 interview, Kelis attributed the dissolution of their professional relationship to a disagreement brought about as a result of her collaborating with other producers for her third studio album." - not sure it's very relevant here honestly; maybe better shortened anyway - "Kelis later said her collaboration with other producers for her third studio album caused a rift in their professional relationship."
  • I have used part of your suggestion, but I think it is important to keep the 2020 part instead to be clearer rather than using something more vague like "later". Aoba47 (talk) 16:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "saying it was: "like a dream come true. Being able to meet these people and interact with them and have them respect your craft has been great." - I think the first part is enough and it just says it all, making the second sentence redundant (it just adds nothing new). At best you could write, "...saying it was 'like a dream come true' and sharing his excitement at the collaboration".
  • I respectfully disagree because I think the second sentence clarifies what he is talking about (i.e. getting respect for his work from people that he has always admired). I actually find the "a dream come true" to be very vague and somewhat meaningless on its own. Aoba47 (talk) 16:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "... was excluded from Kelis's 2008 compilation album" - was it about to be included and then taken out? Because that's what's implied here. If it was just not included in advance, then it should be clarified (just change to "not included").
  • I don't think chemistry needs to be linked.
  • You say "While writing for" twice in the same section - I do not understand the use of "while" anyway, but the repetition is definitely not good.
  • I used while writing because both writers are notable (at least enough for their own Wikipedia articles) and have worked for other publications other than the ones cited in the prose. I have changed the second instance to avoid the repetition. Aoba47 (talk) 16:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Disliked the remix for feeling uncomfortably voyeuristic into Kelis's sex life with Nas" - please make it clearer, it doesn't make sense to me. Shahid • Talk2me 11:21, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have hopefully clarified this in the prose. The critics did not like how Kelis had a song explicitly about BDSM sex with her partner because they felt like it was too personal/uncomfortable to be thinking of them really doing this kind of thing while listening to the song. Let me know if further revisions to this part are needed. Aoba47 (talk) 16:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • All good, more comments a little later. Shahid • Talk2me 19:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. Take as much time as you need. I hope you are doing well. Aoba47 (talk) 19:34, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Shshshsh: Apologies for the ping, but I just wanted to check in with about this review as it has been a few days. I hope you are having a great new year so far! Aoba47 (talk) 03:15, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I support the nomination. I think it meets the criteria and I congratulate Aoba47 for another appreciable effort. Shahid • Talk2me 10:08, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Status update edit

  • @FAC coordinators: Apologies for the ping. I just wanted to check on the status on this nomination as it has received a fair amount of commentary and support as well as source and image reviews. I hope everyone is having a good and safe 2021 so far. Aoba47 (talk) 18:03, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Aoba47, no need to apologise. I recused in order to review, but Shshshsh's support of 6 hours ago gives you five supports and source, image and audio review passes so I am sure that one of my fellow coordinators will be along shortly to suggest what should happen next.
If part of the reason you were querying was because you wish to make a second nomination, feel free to do so. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:15, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the message and for your help with the review. I was actually planning on retiring after this FAC is completed so that is probably why I'm a little restless about it. Thank you again for the update, and have a great weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 18:17, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that is the worst news I have had today. Shame. Ah well. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry >< Aoba47 (talk) 16:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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