Rv7f-393

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Re: Your user page

Hey! Aww, thank you! It's no problem at all! — Status {^talk_contribs 02:04, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

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Waka (canoe)

Hi,

It doesn't do us much good to give a narrow transcription if the IPA key does not support it, or in this case even the language article. Could you fix up those first?

Thanks, — kwami (talk) 08:25, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Your change is misleading since the difference is salient to English speakers, so I have restored the article to its previous state. The language article needs a lot of work, but that doesn't excuse the addition of errors elsewhere, narrow, broad or whatever. What is your source for the change you made? A guess? Please leave as is until I add a source. Rv7f-393 (talk) 09:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

You're missing the point. You're transcribing it with a vowel we say does not exist. We can't expect our readers to figure that out: we need to do the work. Please correct the IPA and Maori articles so that they support your edit.

And no, it's not a guess: phonemically it's /a/. How narrow a phonetic transcription we use is arbitrary, but whatever decision we make, we should be consistent across Maori transcriptions. Currently this word is in 'special Maori', all the rest in 'normal Maori'. That's unprofessional. — kwami (talk) 11:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

What's unprofessional is misleading the reader. Rv7f-393 (talk) 17:40, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Which is what you were doing. Your edit to Maori language is a partial fix. Would you mind checking the other Maori transclusions[1] to verify that they don't have [a] when they should have [ɒ]? There are only about 30 of them. Worse than ignoring the difference would be to promise to indicate it and then not. — kwami (talk) 20:58, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes I would mind. If it bothers you, you fix it, who appointed you high chief? Rv7f-393 (talk) 21:05, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm asking you to not mislead our readers, something you profess to be concerned about. But since you evidently don't care, I will revert your edit to waka. If you sometimes transcribe the [ɒ] vowel as ⟨ɒ⟩, and sometimes as ⟨a⟩, then you are misinforming our readers by telling them it's [a] when it's really [ɒ]. If, however, we don't distinguish the two (as we don't distinguish numerous other Māori allophones, such as [ʊ] and [ʉ], or [a] and [ɐ], and just as we don't distinguish the vowels of English spite and spied), then we are at least being consistent. — kwami (talk) 21:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

You aren't being reasonable. Wikipedia is voluntary, so you can't require people to do things instantly just because you are in a mood. Things take time. Rv7f-393 (talk) 22:14, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

But I can ask you to be reasonable by being consistent and not doing a disservice to our readers. Though since you evidently don't care about that, I'll add a note to the transcription warning readers that it's not consistent with the rest of WP. — kwami (talk) 22:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

You need to get some perspective - guess how many words this will affect? One. Rv7f-393 (talk) 23:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Not according to your ref. — kwami (talk) 23:01, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

That's a matter of opinion. Rv7f-393 (talk) 23:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

No, that's a matter of your source. If your source is only "opinion", then you shouldn't have used it in the first place. — kwami (talk) 23:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

You know what - I can't be bothered with you or with Wikipedia any more. Rv7f-393 (talk) 23:35, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello and hold on! I am so sorry you are having a negative editing experience and I hope that it doesn't keep you away from wikipedia permanently. I understand if you need to take a break, but I do hope you come back, and when you do, please visit us at the Teahouse where we can assist you, as a new editor, in editing questions. Or just drop by my talk page. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:29, 29 March 2012 (UTC)