User talk:Rich Farmbrough/Archive/2014 September

Latest comment: 9 years ago by FreeRangeFrog in topic Ancella_Radford_Bickley

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Wikidata weekly summary #124 edit

Case Opened: Banning Policy edit

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy/Evidence. Please add your evidence by September 16, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Seddon talk 12:32, 2 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Template:Items in an American county edit

Please fix Template:Items in an American county so that links to "Georgia" and "Washington" go to Georgia (U.S. state) and Washington (state) and not to the disambiguation pages. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:10, 2 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Georgia done. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:50, 2 September 2014 (UTC).
Thanks! bd2412 T 20:54, 2 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
Welcome! Washington done. Let me know if there are problems. All the best: Rich Farmbrough21:17, 2 September 2014 (UTC).

Category:Unincorporated communities in DeKalb County, Georgia (U.S. state) edit

Category:Unincorporated communities in DeKalb County, Georgia (U.S. state), which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Fram (talk) 04:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Template:SBKB edit

Hi Rich. Is Template:SBKB still required? If not, I'll nominate it for deletion (or you can if you prefer). Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 06:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Since most of the rest of the bug squashing apparatus has been destroyed, I have g7'd it. All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:41, 3 September 2014 (UTC).

Images at Arbcom edit

Hi Rich. I've disabled the image in your evidence. Given we've already had a little upset over images in the opening statements, I'd rather we didn't go there again. Feel free to fiddle round to keep it as a link, but don't show it as an image. Cheers. WormTT(talk) 09:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Oh, I had no idea there had been issues. All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:38, 3 September 2014 (UTC).

Hall of famers edit

Does lower case really make sense here? I've been fixing these, while downcasing actual over-capitalizations. Dicklyon (talk) 01:34, 2 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I think it does. Per MOS:INSTITUTIONS section Generic words we would write "he was inducted into the hall of fame", creating derived term does not introduce a reason to capitalise. I wonder, though, if we cannot make a better heading, for example "Hall of fame inductees", or "Hall of fame members". All the best: Rich Farmbrough15:37, 2 September 2014 (UTC).
I'm a big fan of not over-capitalizing, but "Hall of Fame" is almost always used the proper name of a particular hall of fame, as evidence shows. Dicklyon (talk) 00:57, 4 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
The same applies to the example given in MOS:INSTITUTIONS section Generic words. see evidence.   All the best: Rich Farmbrough14:42, 4 September 2014 (UTC).
No, that's not the same thing at all. Putting "the" in front of "Hall of Fame" cuts off all the specific names like "the NFL Hall of Fame", but putting "the" in front of "University" leaves you counting all the "University of XXX" names. Dicklyon (talk) 01:00, 6 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
Hall of Fame of Delaware Women... But you are also arguing backwards, that the capitalization is what determines that it is a proper noun, rather than that the type of noun should determine the capitalization. You are right of course about "the University of", it's interesting to note that the most common usage as a standalone phrase in 1890 was "the University" and there has been a more or less constant decrease, the Wikipedia style becoming more common in the mid 70s. I still think that MOS:INSTITUTIONS applies here, if you still disagree, may I suggest one of us cut-and-pastes this section to the talk page for MOS:INSTITUTIONS? All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:48, 7 September 2014 (UTC).

Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet edit

Come one and come all. To a presentation at the Laurel Historical Society about how you can help verify, validate, and edit the information that is on the front line of local history.

 
Picture your self leading the masses to improve Wikimedia one article at a time.
  • Show the Internet who is the better editor.
  • Be the creator of culture that you know you are.
  • Spread the knowledge of noteworthy people who no one but you cares about.
  • Lead the charge to a better Wikipedia --- eventually.


Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:08, 6 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet edit

See you at the Laurel Pool Room, 9th and Main Street, Laurel, MD on Thursday, September 11, 2014 at 7:00 PM EST. See http://www.meetup.com/Wikimedia-DC/events/205494212/ for more information. Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:13, 6 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wikimedia DC invites revolutionaries, free thinkers, and other sundry editors to a DC WikiSalon edit

The WikiSalon is a special meetup usually held during the first and third full weeks of every month, from 7 PM to 9 PM. It's an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss Wikimedia wikis and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own.

If you're coming by Metro, the closest station is Dupont Circle (on the Red Line). If you're driving, a lot of parking opens up downtown after 6:30 PM, so finding a parking space (even a free one) should be easy. Once you've found the building, go to Cove on the second floor. We will be in the conference room.

When: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 at 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM

Where: The Cove, Dupont Circle, 1730 Connecticut Avenue NW, 2nd floor, 20009, DC


For more information, see http://www.meetup.com/Wikimedia-DC/events/205500822/


My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:25, 6 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

The Signpost: 03 September 2014 edit

Wikimedia DC's Wonderful meetups edit

Wikimedia DC's Upcoming meetups

  • Thursday, September 11: “Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet, One Article at a Time!”
    A presentation at the Laurel Historical Society about how you can help verify, validate, and edit the information that is on the front line of local history. Laurel Pool Room, 9th and Main Street in Laurel, MD. 7 PM.
  • Wednesday, September 17: WikiSalon
    Come for the pizza, stay for the conversation. 7 PM – 9 PM
  • Saturday, September 20: September Meetup
    Get dinner and drinks with fellow Wikipedians! 6 PM
  • Sunday, September 21: Laurel History Edit-a-Thon
    Local history for Wikipedia! 10:15 AM – 4 PM
  • Saturday, September 27 – Sunday, September 28: Please RSVP for the Open Government WikiHack at Eventbrite by clicking on the link. The National Archives and Records Administration and Wikimedia DC are teaming up to come up with solutions that help integrate government data into Wikipedia. 10:30 AM – 5 PM each day

My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 22:50, 6 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

September 2014 edit

  Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Bella Subbotovskaya may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s and 2 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
  • ''Bella Abramovna Subbotovskaya''' (b. 1938<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.maa.org/news/math-news/remembering-math-heroine-bella-abramovna-
  • math-heroine-bella-abramovna-subbotovskaya Remembering Math Heroine Bella Abramovna Subbotovskaya], Math in the News, November 12, 2007, [[Mathematical Association of America]]. Accessed June 28,

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 18:39, 7 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia edit

The headings used are Georgia when you sign in, but it depends on which browser you use and your operating system.

Good luck,

Dark Liberty (talk) 04:00, 8 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

  Thanks. All the best: Rich Farmbrough19:45, 8 September 2014 (UTC).

Visual Editor glitch edit

Hi. Can you explain the reason for this revert? Your edit summary said "Visual Editor glitch", but I didn't notice any glitch in my edit, and even if there was one, surely that didn't necessitate reverting the whole edit. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:04, 11 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Essentially your edit merged the lead sentence with the first part of the body, which is, I suppose, fine, sine there were no sections. I have created sections now, so that the reason for the slight repetition is, I hope, clear. You removed two double spaces, I have preserved that. Your edit also lead to the plain wrong statement that:
Tibbetts will be the first in their family to finish secondary education.
Of course this may have been deliberate, or an editing error, in which case I was wrong to blame VE.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:21, 11 September 2014 (UTC).
Whoops, that was indeed my error. I must have assumed from the singular "family" that the phrase was intended to refer to Tibbetts, but I should have read more carefully. Thanks for the clarification. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:40, 11 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
  Most welcome. All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:41, 11 September 2014 (UTC).

Your comments at the arb request edit

Rich, you said on your section:

Newyorkbrad@ and everyone Formulating one's points in such a discussion will not always be easy; for example, how does one best discuss making Wikipedia more appealing to "female editors" without crossing the line into role-ascription or gender stereotyping?
This very issue came up Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countering systemic bias/Gender_gap_task_force/Archive_3#Scope. Notably the two editors SPECIFICO and TwoKindsofPork raised it. I hope I put their minds at rest.

Can you please refresh my memory where (or SPECIFICO) raised a question and you answered? Much obliged. Two kinds of porkMakin'Bacon 19:31, 11 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes this was moved back from the archive and is currently[was] at: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countering systemic bias/Gender_gap_task_force#Scope.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC).
And now back at the archive.... I reproduce it below. The same issue was raised in a different way by Anne DeLong, who edits on technical (traditionally male) areas.

Scope edit

The Scope section of the article appears to say that women reject WP because it is fact-based. This seems ill-defined and problematic -- highly prone to various interpretations which would be sexist and denigrating of women editors and users of WP. SPECIFICO talk 15:42, 26 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree. No Malibu Barbie language please.Two kinds of pork (talk) 17:47, 26 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

This isn't (or shouldn't be) superficial stereotyping. It is a subject that has been researched, see Simon_Baron-Cohen#Autism_research, for example. We know Aspies are often great systematisers, and this is a good characterisation (indeed a classical description) of encyclopeadists. (We have female Aspies here too.doing good work.) The possibility that women "just don't wanna" should not be discounted, after all most men "just don't wanna" either. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:34, 26 August 2014 (UTC).

Wikidata weekly summary #125 edit

The Signpost: 10 September 2014 edit

My Goals edit

Kristine here. My goal is how to learn Wikipedia in a suitable fashion. If categories are inappropriate for me to use; I will ask you about them. Venustar84 (talk) 04:10, 16 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
That's fine just let me know if you have a query Kristien and I will do my best to answer it. All the best: Rich Farmbrough12:13, 16 September 2014 (UTC).

The Signpost: 17 September 2014 edit

Hey Rich F! edit

Long time no see! (On me, I guess.) Wonder if you can lend a little technical help.

  1. re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_templates#Need_CSS.2FJS_savant_help_coding_a_template_on_Wikibooks This post Here] - I'm baffled there aren't any C/S savvy eager beavers to take me up on that!
  2. and with {{#replace:}} ... or at least the status of Bugzilla 6455, where I just saw you towards the end of the posts. The Extension:StringFunctions' page needs an refresher update, at the least, with some sensible status, or perhaps a rewrite, with a nod to Lua scripts? (Just found out that tech is apparently in play as a replacement??!...) I'd posted the Mediawiki forum on that fact several weeks back... but... no update!

  The holy grail: I've a need to extensively add underscores to section names on the one hand via template calls, or underscores to the name to construct a full external url. Can't get past second base without the parser blowing things up. (See for example, Template:underscores on the Wikibook) If you're still the helpful fellow I recall and can lend a hand in these murky waters for me, please reply on my WB talk here, where I'm busy most of the time! Thanks for the time, and a few fond memories. // FrankB 02:09, 23 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Deletion review edit

You contribute a lot to Wikipedia:Notability so I thought you would be a good person to express your opinion one way or the other at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2014_September_18 for Susan Lindauer. Notability issues are being invoked and the interpretations are diametrically opposed. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 03:44, 24 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Medical Translation Newsletter Aug./Sept. 2014 edit

 
 

Medical Translation Newsletter
Issue 2, Aug./Sept. 2014
by CFCF

sign up for monthly delivery

 
 

Feature – Ebola articles edit

 
Electron micrograph of an Ebola virus virion

During August we have translated Disease and it is now live in more than 60 different languages! To help us focus on African languages Rubric has donated a large number of articles in languages we haven't previously reached–so a shout out them, and Ian Henderson from Rubric who's joined us here at Wikipedia. We're very happy for our continued collaboration with both Rubric and Translators without Borders!

Just some of our over 60 translations:
New roles and guides!

At Wikimania there were so many enthusiastic people jumping at the chance to help out the Medical Translation Project, but unfortunately not all of them knew how to get started. That is why we've been spending considerable time writing and improving guides! They are finally live, and you can find them at our home-page!

New sign up page!

We're proud to announce a new sign up page at WP:MTSIGNUP! The old page was getting cluttered and didn't allow you to speficy a role. The new page should be easier to sign up to, and easier to navigate so that we can reach you when you're needed!

Style guides for translations

Translations are of both full articles and shorter articles continues. The process where short articles are chosen for translation hasn't been fully transparent. In the coming months we hope to have a first guide, so that anyone who writes medical or health articles knows how to get their articles to a standard where they can be translated! That's why we're currently working on medical good lede criteria! The idea is to have a similar peer review process to good article nominations, but only for ledes.

Some more stats
Further reading


-- CFCF 🍌 (email) 13:09, 24 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Lyallpur (disambiguation) listed at Redirects for discussion edit

 

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Lyallpur (disambiguation). Since you had some involvement with the Lyallpur (disambiguation) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. noq (talk) 09:59, 27 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Mildred Mitchell-Bateman edit

I'm chagrinned that such a prominent Black West Virginian (and woman) has no entry in Wikipedia. She died in 2012 and I was just checking to make sure that her date of death was listed: http://musom.marshall.edu/news/view.asp?ID=162

There are now several red links leading nowhere. When I checked about starting an article, I learned that a user had deleted an existing article "recently" in 2005 for copyright infringement. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mildred_Mitchell-Bateman&action=edit&redlink=1

I would like to see that article and edit it so that it is not problematic, rather than have it deleted.

  • The National Library of Medicine lists her as a "local legend."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/locallegends/Biographies/Mitchell_Bateman_Mildred.html

  • The West Virginia Division of Culture and History lists her as a "prominent African American in West Virginia."

http://www.wvculture.org/history/bateman.html

  • The second oldest hospital in WV renamed after her:

http://www.batemanhospital.org/

  • In 1973, she became the first black woman to serve as vice president of the American Psychiatric Association
  • In 1977, she was one of four psychiatrists on the President's Commission on Mental Health, which developed the Mental Health Systems Act, enacted in 1980
  • On July 1, 1977, she became chair of the Psychiatry Department of Marshall University's medical school and taught there for 20 years:

http://musom.marshall.edu/news/view.asp?ID=162

  • When she died she was the topic of a column by the Governor of WV:

http://www.governor.wv.gov/media/columns/2012/Pages/InMemoryofDrMildredMitchell-Bateman.aspx

  • The prominent WV scholar, Ancella R. Bickley (retired professor of English and Vice President for Academic Affairs at West Virginia State College) wrote her biography for e-WV:

http://www.wvencyclopedia.org/articles/2003 http://www.ohioswallow.com/author/Ancella+R+Bickley http://www.wvencyclopedia.org/authors/16

As always, thanks for your help! --Beth Wellington (talk) 20:12, 25 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

The previous article is likely to be a cut-and-paste from some public source, quite probably one of those that you have located. I can't see the deleted version, unfortunately. I have created a one-line stub with some of the bits and bobs, your references are certainly enough to create a decent article.
If you wish I (or you) could drop a note to one or more of the appropriate projects/task forces.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:38, 25 September 2014 (UTC).

Thanks, Rich! --Beth Wellington (talk) 22:33, 27 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

The Signpost: 24 September 2014 edit

Wikidata weekly summary #126 edit

Wikipedia:THATSBOGUSSOWECANIGNOREPOLICY listed at Redirects for discussion edit

 

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:THATSBOGUSSOWECANIGNOREPOLICY. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:THATSBOGUSSOWECANIGNOREPOLICY redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. KonveyorBelt 21:34, 29 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ancella_Radford_Bickley edit

Chagrined again. This time on the same day I started a stub (two days ago, it was speedily deleted for no context and or significance by User:FreeRangeFrog before I could even add to it. Just some of the materials I was getting ready to include. How do I reverse a speedy deletion and regain my stub? This is why I am loathe to help on wikipedia. Especially ironic, given the encyclopedia purportedly wants information on women authors. BTW, she's the author of several historic preservation articles here and I was intending to link to them.

Thanks!

  • Dr. Bickley was a graduate of Douglass High School in 1947 and then attended West Virginia State College, where she received a Bachelors Degree in English. She received her Master's Degree in English from Marshall University in 1953--where she was the first full-time, graduate student to integrate the institution--and her E. Ed. in English from West Virginia University.

http://hub.concord.edu/news/2004/01/20/west-virginian-and-african-american-educator-ancella-bickley-announced-grand-groundh

  • She was professor of English and Vice President of Academic Affairs at West Virginia State University. Dr. David Peavler Trowbridge, an assistant professor of African American history at Marshall, said Bickley is the reason African American history in West Virginia has been preserved.

http://www.marshall.edu/pressrelease.asp?ID=2348

  • She served on the West Virginia African-American Tourism Advisory Committee and authored articles for the West Virginia online encyclopedia of the state's Humanities Council:

http://www.wvencyclopedia.org/authors/16

  • She served on the National Parks Underground Railroad Advisory Committee:

http://www.harriettubman.com/ugrr.html

  • She was interviewed for the West Virginia Film Project:

http://www.wvculture.org/history/wvmemory/filmtranscripts/wvbickley.html

  • 1999 Rockefeller Foundation Scholar in Residence at Marshall's Center for the Study of Ethnicity and Gender in Appalachia:

http://www.marshall.edu/csega/index.asp?page=content&id=24

  • The West Virginia State Archives is the home of her papers associated with her co-editorship of Honoring Our Past: Proceedings of the First Two Conferences on West Virginia's Black History, as well as her participation in the Alliance for the Collection, Preservation, and Dissemination of West Virginia's Black History. She also documented business and civic activities of blacks in Huntington and Parkersburg, especially related to education, and desegregation.
  • The Commissioner of Culture & History under Gov. Gaston Caperton (1989-97) interviewed her for his program Cultural Conversations in 1993 and called her a "wealth of cultural information":

http://www.wvculture.org/history/ms2003-182.html

  • Editor, Memphis Tennessee Garrison: The Remarkable Story of a Black Appalachian Woman (2001)

http://www.ohioswallow.com/book/Memphis+Tennessee+Garrison

  • Author

https://www.libraries.wvu.edu/collections/bibliography/ethnicity/

Bickley, Ancella R.  1997.  “Dubie, Spanky, and Mr. Death: West Virginia’s Pioneering Black Airmen” [W.Va.’s Tuskegee Airmen].  Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 23 (Summer): 42-44.

Bickley, Ancella R. 2001. “Camp War: Remembering CCC Company 3538-C” [McDowell Co.; 1935-1942; all-black Civilian Conservation Corps camp]. Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 27 (Winter): 22-29.

Bickley, Ancella R. 2001. In Spite of Obstacles: A History of The West Virginia Schools for the Colored Deaf and Blind, 1926-1955. Charleston: West Virginia Department of Education and the Arts, Division of Rehabilitation Service. 88 pp.

Bickley, Ancella R. 2003. “Lafadie Belle Whittico: Black Medical Pioneer in Mingo County” [b. 1911; first black nurse, 1930s]. Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 29 (Winter): 40-45.

Bickley, Ancella R. 2004. “‘Lifting as We Climb’: Charleston Woman’s Improvement League” [black women’s service organization, founded 1898]. Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 30 (Winter): 54-59.

Bickley, Ancella R. 2008. “Carter G. Woodson: The West Virginia Connection” [1875-1950]. Appalachian Heritage 36, no. 3 (Summer): 58-69. “The Father of Black History”; special issue–“African-American Appalachia”

Bickley, Ancella. 2002. “The West Virginia Schools for the Colored Deaf and Blind” [Institute, W.Va.; 1926-1955]. Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 28 (Fall): 22-23.

Bickley, Ancella. 2006. “Education and Activism in Gary: A Visit with Jessie Moon Thomas” [African American; b. 1913; taught 42 years in McDowell Co.]. Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 32, no. 4 (Winter): 32-37.


Bickley, Ancella. 2011. “General Edward Greer: West Virginia’s First Black General” [b. 1924, McDowell Co.]. Goldenseal: West Virginia Traditional Life 37, no. 4 (Winter): 42-47. Memories of segregated towns, Gary and Welch; served in Korea and Vietnam.--Beth Wellington (talk) 23:31, 27 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

If by "several historic preservation articles here" you mean on Wikipedia, then linking to them (in the context of her bibliography) might be a problem, because her identity as a WP editor would have to be established and a permalink would be needed.
But certainly articles often get speedied when they are in the stub instar of their life cycle, the best first step is to leave a note with the admin concerned, who will generally restore it, either to mainspace or draft, or your user-space. In this case FreeRangeFrog  is the admin in question, and the ping in this post should summon them like a genie. <poof> All the best: Rich Farmbrough15:41, 29 September 2014 (UTC).
@Beth Wellington: Restored to Draft:Ancella Radford Bickley. I understand this can be frustrating, but if you're planning on starting off with a stub, a draft (or your sandbox) is always preferable to article space. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 16:37, 30 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
Thanks Rich and FreeRangeFrog BTW, Rich,she's listed as the author of references in these articles, so I was going to link to her bio when it's in better shape:
There's certainly no problem saying "Bickley wrote the NRHP nomination for Canty House" for example, nor indeed in having a red-link/stub-link from those articles to mainspace. All the best: Rich Farmbrough13:28, 1 October 2014 (UTC).

WikiProject Women writers Invitation edit

 

Hello Rich Farmbrough/Archive/2014 September! Thank you for your contributions to articles related to Women writers. I'd like to invite you to become a part of WikiProject Women writers, a WikiProject aimed at improving the quality of articles about women writers on Wikipedia.

If you would like to participate, please visit the WikiProject Women writers page for more information. Feel free to sign your name under "Members". I look forward to your involvement!

Thank you! All the best: Rich Farmbrough19:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC).Reply