Davidgute
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Hello, Davidgute. I'm not answering on that archive page, because it says at the top "This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page."
The official site of his department, a non-independent, primary source, may be used in a limited way to source some factual information. It is incapable of contributing in any way to his notability: it says that he exists, it doesn't say that somebody has thought him worth writing about. The official page of the Bahat prize similarly can be used to support that he won the prize, but not to say anything about whether this is significant: that requires an independent source writing about his winning it. Reviews of his first book probably establish that that book is notable; they may or may not establish that he himself is notable, depending on their content. Citations are not relevant: we want to know that people have actually written text about him.
I'll expand on something I said in my previous reply. Try this. Forget everything you know about Professor Fishelov. Decide that you will put in the article only information which you have found in a reliable published source, written by somebody with no connection with Fishelov or his university (or his publishers, or his students ... ). Then see if you are actually able to say anything substantial about him. If so, he is notable, and you can use that as the basis of your article - possibly adding a little bit of factual information from non-independent sources. If not, then he is almost certainly not currently notable and there is no point in trying to write an article. --ColinFine (talk) 01:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Hello ColinFine, thanks for your useful comments! I added selected passages from reviews written on Fishelov's publications. These reviews were published in different scholarly journals as well as in literary supplements of major Israeli newspapers. All these reviews speak highly of him and are clear indications of Fishelov's eminent and notable position among literary scholars both in Israel and abroad.Davidgute (talk) 12:54, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe - but I'm not seeing it yet. It's hard to be sure: because you have not formatted the references with full information, I cannot tell without looking at them whether they are by him, about him, or something else. (Please see referencing for beginners and complete them before asking again). The first couple I looked at that were attached to particular works turned out to be previews, not reviews - once again, these demonstrate that the works exist, but not that they are notable. The same goes for the Bahat prize.
- Looking at the first section, there is precisely one reference (not an independent one) for the first four paragraphs. The fifth paragraph has five references: one is an article by him, and the other four are reviews of works to which he wrote the notes: each has precisely one paragraph about him.
- I suspect you are finding this frustrating; I am finding it frustrating myself, because it seems to me that you are seizing on a little piece of what I say and ignoring the main part. I admit that I have only looked at about eight of the references to see what they are; but I have not yet seen a single piece of substantial writing about him by a writer unconnected with him - not one. And without a couple of these he does not meet the criteria of notability, and you should give up.
- One last point: You say "all these reviews speak highly of him". Wikipedia does not care whether reviews speak highly of him or dismiss him utterly. (Wikipedia has many articles about villains). All it requires is that they talk about him at some length. If you reply, please name me, for example by putting {{U|ColinFine}} in the reply, so that it will send me a message. I have your talk page on my Watch list, but I have many many pages there, so I won't necessarily notice a change. --ColinFine (talk) 20:57, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
- Dear ColinFine,
- Re substantial writing about Fishelov: I brought selected passages from substantial reviews of Fishelov's books. These reviews were published in respected academic journals and literary supplements and the only connection between Fishelov and the scholars who wrote these reviews is that they share research interests. Thus, I do not understand why you wrote "I have not yet seen a single piece of substantial writing about him by a writer unconnected with him - not one." If you want to read the full reviews of Fishelov's books, you can simply check the relevant references: e.g. reference # 10 directs to a substantial review of Fishelov's book Metaphors of Genre, written by Professor Harry E. Shaw of Cornell University and published in the scholarly journal Comparative Literature Studies (please, check also the other references to substantial reviews of Fishelov's books). In case it is not common to bring reviews of Fishelov's books in the Books section, can I introduce them in the section that describes his biography and topics of research?
- Re notability: the fact that Fishelov's book Metaphor of Genre is widely discussed and cited by scholarly works (please check Google Scholar), the fact that his book Samson's Locks won the first Bahat Prize for a non-fiction book in Israel, and the fact that he was invited to teach in distinguished universities like UC Berkeley, Chicago University, Columbia University and the EHESS in Paris – are all strong indications of his notability in the field.
- Re references: I will be grateful if you could possibly give me more specific directions how to write specific references. I believe I followed Wikipedia's guidelines but in case I missed something (this is my first contribution to Wikipedia in English), your comment on one specific reference will be very helpful and I will use it as a model for all other references. Davidgute (talk) 21:26, 20 March 2015 (UTC) {{U|ColinFine}
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Managing a conflict of interest edit
Hello, Davidgute. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:
- avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
- propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{request edit}} template);
- disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
- avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam#External link spamming);
- do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.
In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.
Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. MrOllie (talk) 15:53, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- I would like to emphasize that when I suggest adding a reference to David Fishelov's scholarly article "The Poetics of Six-Word Stories" I have no personal interest and there is no conflict of interest as described in your guidelines. Professor Fishelov's article was published in Narrative, a highly regarded academic journal, published by The Ohio State University Press, and it is the only scholarly article that I am familiar with that systematically describes several principles characterizing hundreds of six-word stories posted on various websites on the Internet that use the "baby shoes" story as a model. I am confident that readers of the entry on "For sale: baby shoes, never worn" will profit much from reading Professor Fishelov's article. Davidgute (talk) 18:59, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- 100% of your editing has been about David Fishelov. If you have no personal interest, why is that? How are you associated with Professor Fishelov? MrOllie (talk) 19:18, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- What about these (in Hebrew)?
- https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%96_%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%99 (Another professor)
- and
- https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%90%D7%9C_%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D (Director) Davidgute (talk) 20:02, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- Dear MrOllie, will you be kind enough to respond to my answer to your criticism? Let me take this opportunity to bring to your attention some important background information: I am a long-standing contributor to Wikipedia in Hebrew and have been doing this for about a decade. My username for editing in the Hebrew Wikipedia is "davidgu" and when I offered at the time to edit the entry on Professor David Fishelov in the English Wikipedia I was asked to change my username and consequently I chose the username "davidgute" that I use for the English Wikipedia. In light of my solid, long and impeccable record of editing in Wikipedia I see no reason for your sweeping rejection of my latest changes.
- Let me emphasize again that my only interest in offering these changes is to make the relevant Wikipedia entries richer with pertinent and useful information for readers. This applies to all my suggestions, including my suggestion to add, in the "For sale: baby shoes, never worn" entry, a reference to Fishelov's scholarly article which contains a systematic discussion of the fast growing literary genre of six-word stories. 2A06:C701:4A30:E600:4518:F4C7:EB1:BE3 (talk) 02:19, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks Davidgu (talk) 02:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
- You failed to answer my question. Perhaps you missed it, I'll ask it again: How are you associated with Professor Fishelov? And a follow up: you just wrote
when I offered at the time to edit the entry on Professor David Fishelov in the English Wikipedia
Who did you make that offer to? - MrOllie (talk) 02:56, 10 November 2022 (UTC)- First, let me respond to your question about how I am associated with Professor David Fishelov: I have been occasionally in touch with Professor Fishelov as part of my activity as the founder and manager of the Website devoted to the great Israeli poet Nathan Alterman. In fact, Professor Fishelov is one out of about 50 literary critics and researchers (about 20 of them are university professors) that I know because of my role in this Website. About fifteen years ago, when I first had the idea of building this Website, I approached Professor Fishelov, as well as about ten other professors of literature from Israeli Universities, because of his reputation as a literary critic and researcher in the field of modern Hebrew poetry (among other areas).
- During the past fifteen years I devoted much time and energy to develop and maintain the Nathan Alterman Website (please see: http://www.alterman.org.il) and I did all this enormous work as a volunteer, as a contribution to the community. The Website has become a highly regarded source of information for students, critics, researchers as well as many lovers of Alterman's poetry. Whereas I can be credited for being the founder of this Website, it gained its reputation greatly thanks to many contributions and valuable advice that I received from many scholars (and Professor Fishelov is one of them). Let me add that while I am not a professional literary scholar myself, I became very familiar with the field of literary studies thanks to my intensive activity in the Alterman Website.
- In addition, I have devoted my time and my knowledge to enrich the Hebrew Wikipedia, especially with regard to entries related to the poetry of Nathan Alterman. If you wish, I can forward to you the list of entries to which I have added or changed information in the Hebrew Wikipedia. Davidgu (talk) 18:28, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
- No, your activity on the Hebrew wikipedia isn't relevant here. What is relevant is the English Wikipedia's conflict of interest guideline. You should not be adding references to Fishelov or editing his biography any further. MrOllie (talk) 18:33, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
- Please see my contributions to English Wikipedia. In all these cases I added selected information about several poets and scholars whose very short articles did not justly reflect their importance. I would be grateful if you could possibly remove the template message that you added to Professor David Fishelov's article ("A major contributor..." etc.) and restore my latest additions.
- Let me emphasize again that I comply with Wikipedia's "Neutral point of view" policy with respect to Professor Fishelov's article - just like with respect to all other scholars to whose articles I contributed. Davidgute (talk) 02:04, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
- No, your activity on the Hebrew wikipedia isn't relevant here. What is relevant is the English Wikipedia's conflict of interest guideline. You should not be adding references to Fishelov or editing his biography any further. MrOllie (talk) 18:33, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
- You failed to answer my question. Perhaps you missed it, I'll ask it again: How are you associated with Professor Fishelov? And a follow up: you just wrote
- 100% of your editing has been about David Fishelov. If you have no personal interest, why is that? How are you associated with Professor Fishelov? MrOllie (talk) 19:18, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
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