Chiton magnificus

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Ceviche sandbox

Hi Chiton,

I didn't publish this in the article's talk page since I would like to restrict this to a few users. I will use the following as a sandbox, User:MarshalN20/Sandbox4, and do feel free to add/move things as you see fit (I trust your decisions). For my part, my research is pointing to three things:

1. "Ceviche" does certainly seem to be an Arabic word.
2. Lima seems to be most likely place of invention, given that Moors were brought to Peru while under the rule of Francisco Pizarro (although at that time Lima was under New Castile).
3. "Ceviche" as a word was spread throughout the Americas to refer to different seafood dishes. In other words, what spread was the name of the plate, not the plate itself. This is why all Ceviche versions are so different.

Best wishes.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 00:49, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Point 3 seems very much like the case of pisco when the name of a product popular in proper Peru was applied to similar products from the neighboring colonies. (note that the pisco and pisco sour articles still needs proper sourcing for this, right now it is technically OR).

On the ceviche origin issue I have to agree with the criticism of the source made by Nuujinn:

Other source do contest that origin, and some of the sources you've presented waffle (thought, probable, etc). How many of these sources are food anthropologists? Cooks and food writers are not experts in food origins and we shouldn't rely on cookbooks and the like. And no, the original plate does not have to have originated in one place only--the opposite is more likely true, as ceviche is ultimately a pickling technique, and most culture have those. Any areas with acidic fruit and access to fish would have likely come up with some variant, and it is very unlikely that what the ancient peruvians ate was similar to what we call cerviche today. --Nuujinn (talk) 21:48, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

We certainly need at least one academic work pointing to Peru. Chiton (talk) 01:02, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

I see that as the optimal solution (finding a "food anthropologist" or actual historian, instead of sources writing about historians or anthropologists stating something without actually giving out names). However, if such source(s) are not available, we have to work with what is available (mainly chefs, assuming they are knowledgeable about the foods they make). WP:WEIGHT is also bound to come in handy. I am first going to compile the sources we can find on the subject in the talk page (you can add more if you like). Regards.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 17:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Nothing to do?

Mapocho River is the solution!. --Best regards, Keysanger (what?) 10:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

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Flag

Espero no te moleste haya vuelto a la edición anterior. La capitanía fue una parte de la corona de Castilla hasta 1812, pero entre 1812 - 1818 forma parte de España. La bandera de Borgoña que pones en la ficha es un símbolo carlista de la dictadura franquista. La bandera naval española tiene la cruz de Borgoña y las anclas en sus esquinas.--Santos30 (talk) 23:48, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Could you cite your sources on the pages you make changes on? It would greatly improve any discussion. By the way, its use by Franco, Tony Blair, Green Peace and the Soviet Union is irrelevant in the historical context of the Spanish Empire. This source explains that...

• With the union of the Burgundian and Spanish crowns under Philip the Handsome, it became (again with many variations) a flag of the Spanish Netherlands (present-day Belgium) and of the Spanish crown and military forces.
• [it] was the Spanish military flag from the 16th century up to 1843, when the colours of the 1785 War Ensign were adopted for use on land too
• The Burgundy Flag on old flagcharts may just indicate "Spanish", without it being the flag of Oostende or Biscaye. It has been the flag of the Kings of Spain.

-Chiton (talk) 00:34, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Sí yo me he leído el enlace que pones a la web, pero no me haga copy paste de frases porque lo importante de verdad es que esa web no habla nada de nada de la capitanía de Chile. Te pongo dos enlaces que sí hablan de Chile con tajante claridad:

• [1] Chile forma parte integrante del reino de Castilla.
• [2] Desde el coonquistador Pedro de Valdivia hasta su independencia el símbolo de Chile es la bandera de Castilla.

Ademas mirelo con precaución porque las banderas simbolizan y no da igual lo que hay en ellas o lo que falta en ellas. No va usted a comprar gato por liebre y a enchufarle a la historia de su querido país la bandera del Carlismo que no es más que un grupete de fascistas españoles ¿no?. Hay mucha confusión con los símbolos de las fuerzas armadas españolas de 1700 porque adoptaron una bandera de color blanco para poner en ella la cruz de borgoña, pero esas banderas blancas siempre llevan los escudos reales. Jamás aparecen banderas blancas con cruces de borgoña solas sin escudo real, como la confusa imagen de la Web, que lamentablemente por sus limitaciones no se anda en explicaciones, pero sí da una importante advertencia:

• The Burgundy cross,... used by Spain, especially at sea, for many years. In much more recent times, it was used by the Carlists (Requetés) during the Spanish Civil War and afterwards, and by the Traditionalist Party (Partido Tradicionalista) during the post-Franco years.

Ya estoy discutiendo para corregir el artículo Spanish Empire porque es equivocadísimo el sesgo carlista del símbolo de la cruz de borgoña, sino que además el mapa nacionalista de España que hace desaparecer el reino de Castilla y no se comprende la división territorial de Ultramar. Es muy clarificador los mapas que puse para entender el ABC. --Santos30 (talk) 09:00, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Sí totalmente de acuerdo en su uso militar. Ningún problema con eso.--Santos30 (talk) 09:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Demographics of Chile

Hi. I've removed the "El Mercurio" reference because it is dead and replaced it with a reference from the US State Department. I still believe it is not appropriate to mention the source (ie. "According to the US State Department Chile is a multi-ethnic society") as it is not information that needs attribution in the article's text. I've also removed the text about Colombia because it lacks a reference. Pristino (talk) 04:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

A news once printed on a newspaper does not need to be removed just because the online version is unavailable, you can still go to public libraries or to El Mercurio's site search to find it out. Regarding the US source it is absolutely a must to mention the source in the text since we all know that the in the US race and ethnicity are dealed in a particular way that do not represent a world wide view (there is perhaps no world-wide view on this topic). Chiton (talk) 05:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

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Chilean economy

I see that you are interested in the above subject. Maybe this article can serve you. All the best. --E4024 (talk) 22:51, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Interesting article. Thank you! - Chiton (talk) 23:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Category:Los Prisioneros

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File:Umbrisol.jpg

Dear Chiton magnificus -- would it be possible to transfer your image Umbrisol.jpg to Commons, so that it can be used in other chapters of wikipedia as well? That would be great! Kind Regards -- Wesn (talk) 20:21, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

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