Talk:XXL (Macedonian band)

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Hope this page will be free for bad faith deletions.--Matrix17 14:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal

The song 100% Te Ljubam should be merged into this page. Since their 2000 15th place showing on the Eurovision song contest XXL has not made additional news, and this song is directly related to their single season on the show, and is included in almost all mentions of the band. The two, the band and the song, should be considered as a single entity for the sake of a Wikipedia article, with 100% Te Ljubam being made into a redirect page to XXL (Macedonian band). KP Botany 16:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree; it will also give us more to work with on this article if they were both merged. Acalamari 16:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree based on the rationale given. If the song is what's famous and the band is not, the merger should go in the opposite direction. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 09:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes i agree put the song article in the band section instead of the opposit. the opposit is just strange to do--Matrix17 10:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I may be arguing from a position of ignorance, being from outside Europe, but my experience of Eurovision (and one which is backed up by researching the various articles I've written on the Contest here) is that, when all's said and done, it's a song contest. In other words, the vast majority of bands and performers achieve notability to a degree, but the greater degree of notability is actually achieved by the songs entered. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 10:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe that is sorta true, but the songs do belong to the bands, rather than vice versa--the song itself is not performed by other bands, but the bands may, in general, perform additional songs. In this case, though, the notoriety belongs to the band, not the song, while in general the songs themselves may attain more fame than their bands. This latter I can't really attest to with the modern contest, but it used to be sorta the case. KP Botany 03:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

It depends on how you slice it, I think. Is the credit for the first win (for example) to be given to the country (Switzerland), the performer (Lys Assia) or the song (Refrain)? Given that a great many songs even way back when were written in isolation from the performers, I think it's very possible to argue that the performer is more incidental than we might think. In the modern sense, with 30-odd acts per semi-final, it's always the country which qualifies, rather than the singer or the song. As two other cases in point, France had to write an entirely new song last year after a woman won their preselection but was given a song out of her vocal range and Spain had to write an alternative version of a song in their national final in case a male was going to be singing it (not that the song was selected, mind you), so again there seems to be an argument for the song "owning" the performer. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 08:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

There are arguments for the song owning the performer, I agree with you. However, in this particular case the infamy is for the performers, not the song. The song itself, I would agree to delete the article, it's only the group that got a little notoriety. You sound like you know the show at least well enough to know there are many such groups in the preliminary rounds that are not deserving of an article on Wikipedia, and some in the later rounds that aren't (although their songs might be). This group would be in that category of not quite a Wikipedia article, except for some notoriety associated with their performance, and continuing to be mentioned years after the fact. In this case, the group got the notability, not the song. In most other cases, it's probably the song that people will remember. KP Botany 23:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to think I know the show well enough :). I guess what I'm saying here is that the notability of the group is heavily bound up in this particular song (and the performance thereof), which is simultaneously an issue at AfD as well. The article as currently written contains largely the same information as the article on the song, but the song-article has slightly more said about it. If the band can be shown to have done something else other than sung pretty badly, there might be a case for merging in the opposite direction. Such notability as there is here attaches to the song. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 00:37, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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