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Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments2 people in discussion
The page was recently unprotected upon request and consensus to unprotect it and turn it into a redirect. After looking further, I decided to make it an article as I believe that this micronation has reached the notability guidelines to have its own article instead of being a redirect. If disagreed, it can be reverted back to being a redirect again as per former consensus? I believe it has more notability/sources than other micronations on Wikipedia such as Dominion of British West Florida, Flandrensis, etc therefore eligible for its own page. MicroSupporter (talk) 18:12, 7 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
There doesn't to be any apparent difference between this claim and the others. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
It shows more notability than other micronations. I'm not sure why Kingdom of Enclava doesn't have an article (I'm currently drafting one similar to this one), but Ongal seems to lack almost any known sources. MicroSupporter (talk) 20:29, 8 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
(p.s every claim is on a different piece of land) MicroSupporter (talk) 20:44, 8 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 7 months ago15 comments4 people in discussion
I have turned the page back into an article as the admin claimed that the reason for revert was undue weight as its not a real country. That would mean all micronations would have to go. I don't think he understands that micronations are not real countries, and are just fantasy movements. Liberland would have to go too.
If this should be turned into a redirect, an actual vote/consensus should be reached with the involvement of Wikiproject:Micronations. MicroSupporter (talk) 09:17, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
I'm a bit confused by both sides of this dispute at this time. On the one hand, Joy is right to point out WP:Other stuff exists--MicroSupporter's arguments regarding the state of articles about other micronations are in a word, irrelevant, and WikiProjects have no special jurisdiction in deciding article content. That having been said, it appears that Verdis has a stronger claim to notability than the last time it was deleted, with significant coverage in the generally reliable La Nacion ([1]) and at least one other new article of unclear reliability ([2]). Are we still short of GNG? signed, Rosguilltalk 15:00, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Hi User:Rosguill. I think that deletion is from 2020 though. Most the articles about Verdis I added like Večernji List (very notable in Croatia) and Página 12 (Argentinian) are from 2021. I think I added some from 2022 too but they don't appear to be as notable as the ones from 2021. Should we maybe do a vote/consensus on whether this micronation is notable enough to be on Wikipedia? It’s definitely more notable than ones like Dominion of British West Florida, Kugelmugel and some other ones now. I can’t find many sources for those ones. Am not sure. I think User:Joy was also confused on the term micronation aswell as he claimed that the article was an undue weight violation as it doesn’t have a real status, but no micronation is a real country, yet I think they should still be on Wikipedia. Difference between micronation and microstate or unrecognised state MicroSupporter (talk) 15:15, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
The reference to Večernji list is a [3] says in the title "They founded a state in our disputed territory" - hence the title writer doesn't consider this state to actually have territory - and in the subtitle says "What will they say to that in our Ministry of the Internior, we wonder" - hence the subtitle writer is mocking the idea - and the first paragraph says "They reached out to us via social networks 'You talked about Liberland once and it's not far from the state we're founding' they started." - hence the writer is describing self-promotion by the authors of Verdis. This is, frankly, a mockery of the verifiability policy to consider such a thing as a reliable source for these fringe claims. It's like an egregious example of how to use publicly-edited websites for self-promotion. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:52, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Verdis could have zero territory (like Aerican Empire). It still meets the notability guidelines to be on Wikipedia. It's a micronation, not a real country. The idea being mocked doesn't mean that Verdis lacks notability, it means its controversial. I listed the Vecernji List reference as an example of some of the notable sources I added. Take a look at the references. I highly doubt that the Vecernji article is self-promotion either considering the writer is mocking Verdis. MicroSupporter (talk) 16:56, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Something meets notability guidelines if you can prove that. I still don't see WP:GNG actually being met here. There's technically some mainstream coverage, certainly, but it still fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:ONEEVENT. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:40, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
The article in the Argentinian paper is in Spanish, which I can't verify, but Google Translate says the first sentences are "Daniel Jackson became president at age 14. At least that's what he says." The same paragraph ends with "[Verdis] pursues “a better, safer and cleaner world”. At least on Daniel's computer." This is another example of a serious newspaper covering the topic jovially, facetiously. One can certainly make the claim that the encyclopedia should describe this reality - but then it should describe the reality, as opposed to promoting this fringe idea. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:56, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Noting for the record as a Spanish speaker that the provided Google Translate translation is correct signed, Rosguilltalk 17:04, 11 October 2022 (UTC) Reply
Your argument is that Verdis shouldn't exist because it doesn't have territory. You do realise that micronations are not real countries and are often created as mock states or massive LARPs? Austenasia (its territory is just a house and some other houses of other citizens) was founded by an at-the-time little kid, same goes for Empire of Atlantium. They are not real countries, they are micronations. But that doesn't mean they can't be on Wikipedia. They are often not taken seriously. You will see the same issue for Liberland, on nearby territory disputed for the same reason. MicroSupporter (talk) 16:58, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
FWIW, MicroSupporter, your case would be a lot stronger if you could cite peer-reviewed academic publications analyzing Verdis. Joy has a point that the way that newspapers are covering the topic weakens the significance and reliability of their coverage, and really newspapers are a rather poor type source for anything controversial. I'm not sure which way I would !vote in an AfD at this time. signed, Rosguilltalk 17:03, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
That is true, User:Rosguill, but most micronations are fantasy therefore not having any serious articles about them. For example Austenasia has coverage from The Guardian, but it is written in a comical and non-serious sense as you can see in their references. I think some of the articles I referenced in this micronations article are written quite seriously or semi-seriously, but some definitely are taking the mick out of Verdis (understandably, considering its not a real country). It's difficult to find micronations having serious articles written about them, even the ones on Wikipedia to be honest. MicroSupporter (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
No, the argument isn't about what should exist or not, it's about what the encyclopedia should describe. It describes a lot of notable silly things, like Monty Python's Flying Circus or modern flat Earth beliefs. However, the threshold of notability for these is way more clearly met than this novel concept. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
That's like saying every micronation should be deleted. Go back and look. It's not an opinion, its a fact. You are clearly violating WP:BIASMicroSupporter (talk) 17:49, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
As I stated before, I don't know about every micronation article. Since there's no apparent progress here, I've used AFD to try to gather better consensus. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:02, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
This shouldn't be a redirect as it's clearly notable enough to have its own article. Verdis has aparently had its passports officially recognized by the Kingdom of Eswatini. They actually have access to the land unlike Liberland and are planning to start construction of buildings. If Liberland has an article then Verdis certainly should. 82.26.250.60 (talk) 23:53, 24 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
Not done That isn't an edit request. If you want the decision from the last AfD to be overturned, you should go to Deletion Review. --RL0919 (talk) 16:09, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply
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Not done: there is consensus against having such an article. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:19, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Not done That isn't an edit request. If you want the decision from the last AfD to be overturned, you should go to Deletion Review. --RL0919 (talk) 16:09, 8 November 2023 (UTC)