Talk:Upstairs/Downstairs

Requested move 06 September 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The nominated suggestion was rejected, and there was no consensus as to any other possible moves. —Darkwind (talk) 01:45, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

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Upstairs/Downstairs → Upstairs–Downstairs (album) – MOS:SLASH avoid the slash as it implies a subpage. Also, this is all to confusable with the two television dramas, so the current slashed title should redirect to the disambiguation page Upstairs Downstairs, as should Upstairs–Downstairs/Upstairs-Downstairs/Upstairs—Downstairs --Relisted. Red Slash 01:28, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 70.24.244.158 (talk) 13:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC) Note: RM previously closed permaturely by User:Red Slash; relisted after brief discussion on WP:MRV

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Support but better Upstairs-Downstairs (The Ergs! album) given that Radio Massacre International#Discography already mentions another album. Also the Carl Davis album on Upstairs Downstairs disambiguation page. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:48, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
  • That is fine by me (I am the nominator) ; in which case, the "(album)" forms should also redirect to the disambiguation page -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 02:32, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Slashes should generally be avoided, but I think we take that principle too far in throwing out slashes that are in actual titles, and there's precedent not to do so with music articles; compare to Under the Sun / Under the Moon or Love Minus Zero/No Limit. --BDD (talk) 22:23, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
• At any rate, given that the Radio Massacre International's "incredibly prolific" discography hasn't led to any articles on their albums despite almost 20 years of work, it's unlikely there will be another album by this name to disambiguate against. Further disambiguation should occur iff there's another album by this name with an article, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and other considerations notwithstanding. --BDD (talk) 22:23, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Radio Massacre's album is the dab problem, the problem is that the BBC contracted American composer Carl Davis to make the Upstairs Downstairs soundtrack album and it was nominated for an Ivor Novello Award. It's the Carl Davis Upstairs Downstairs album not The Ergs! album which comes up first on Amazon. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

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(post-relisting survey comments below)

• Move to "Upstairs/Downstairs (The Ergs! album)" (and redirect "Upstairs/Downstairs" to the "Upstairs Downstairs" dab page): Slashes that are actually in the titles of topics are acceptable on Wikipedia; they do not always imply sub-topics. Here is a quote from WP:SUB: "Some topics have a slash in the name, and should be named accordingly—e.g. GNU/Linux naming controversy or OS/2." However, I think the slash is an insufficient disambiguator relative to the other topics listed at Upstairs Downstairs, and two of those other entries are albums. The average person looking for any of these topics won't know whether to use a slash, a space, a comma, an en-dash, or a hyphen, and including "(The Ergs! album)" will help identify the correct article. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:42, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose moving to Upstairs–Downstairs (album) (which should be a redirect to the dab). I see no issue with leaving this title as Upstairs/Downstairs as none of the other topics use a slash in the title. If the wisdom of the masses determines that disambiguation is nonetheless needed, the first preferred title would be simply Upstairs/Downstairs (album), again for the reason that no other album has a slash in the title. older ≠ wiser 14:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

User:Bkonrad, given that Amazon CD cover has no slash, and we have no print sources for a slash, what is the source leading you to think a slash should be in the title? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I've no idea why the Amazon image does not have a slash, though you have to wonder why they nonetheless use "Upstairs/Downstairs" as the title. Allmusic.com and Discogs.com show the cover with a slash. Also, the song on the same album and for which it is presumably named includes a slash. The lack of print sources might say something about notability, but there are some online reviews that seem to uniformly include the slash -- even when the image is the same as the one on amazon as here and here and here. older ≠ wiser 10:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

• Procedural closure - This article is a mess, and this discussion won't make any difference. --George Ho (talk) 17:48, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't see how the article being a stub affects procedure here? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't see that either. Being a mess does not preclude renaming. -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 05:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

You may not see it, but the album has notability issues. And there is no other way to improve it other than include reviews. Sadly, there is only one review, and I'm unsure of its reliability. Regardless, it fails WP:notability and WP:notability (album). --George Ho (talk) 15:46, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

That still has nothing to do with renaming the article. Nominate it for deletion if you like, but I still don't see how it affects the renaming discussion, there's no procedural closure on the basis you chose. -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 04:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

If deleted, this would render this discussion useless. --George Ho (talk) 04:44, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

That only applies if it is deleted, which is not guaranteed. And you suggested the procedural close 2-days before nominating it for deletion. So, nothing to do with the move discussion -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 07:01, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Comment a similar requested move is occurring at talk: Upstairs, Downstairs (1971 TV series) -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 13:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
• Comment another related requested move is open at Talk:Upstairs, Downstairs (1971 TV series) -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 01:09, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

PROD

Please recreate this as a redirect to the disambiguation page Upstairs Downstairs after deletion, if this is deleted through PROD, as a valid typo spelling of the other Upstairs-Downstairs variants. -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 04:41, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

someone deprodded the article -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 01:10, 22 September 2013 (UTC)