Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums

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WikiProject Albums (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Albums, an attempt at building a useful resource on recordings from a variety of genres. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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The Tech and Harvard CrimsonEdit

This may be a really obvious (or not) question, but I've never been able to fully suss Wikipedia's stance on student newspapers; in album articles, my (potentially entirely wrong) impression is that it depends on what they're being used (or not used) to source, or on the particular notability and third-party respect of the newspapers. I've encountered The Tech and The Harvard Crimson numerous times when wanting to expand articles, most recently today when I've seen them both assign a particular genre to an album that other publications seemingly haven't, and was wondering whether they would count as reliable.--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 16:39, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

I wonder as well--I recently removed a Crimson rating or review from a reviews box or critical reception section, as it's a student paper. I'd be fine with getting rid of them across the board. What we definitely don't want to do is allow, for example, just Ivy League schools or something. The other wrench I've found: I'll be ready to use a RS newspaper review or article, only to find that the review is by a high school student...although "we" know for sure that RS newspapers have editorial policies and editors, so we can assume that the high schooler's review was in fact edited... Caro7200 (talk) 17:03, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah it seems tricky. My personal hunch would be to avoid student papers generally, except for minor things like album genres and release dates, or maybe the odd non-controversial info or observation here and there. But I don't know how wise that is.--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 17:50, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
I'd agree with you both, and especially with Caro7200's statement that we shouldn't view The Harvard Crimson as inherently more reliable than the student newspaper of the University of Alabama or whatever... we'd rightly be accused of snobbery on Wikipedia. Richard3120 (talk) 00:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
According to WP:RSSM, Reputable student media outlets, such as The Harvard Crimson, are considered generally reliable sources for news on their school and local community. They can sometimes be considered reliable on other topics, although professional sources are typically preferred when available. In your case, since other professional publications aren't assigning those genres, I would err on the side of caution and avoid adding those to the articles.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 14:05, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
I work at a Communications college with many colleagues who are current and former journalists, and can attest that journalism students are trained to run university newspapers like the professionals, and often have faculty oversight. Thus, for most university newspapers, reporting is solid and can be considered trustworthy. (Whether that corresponds with reliable here can be discussed further.) I don't think we can say the same for high school papers though. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd agree, though I'd also say there's a time and a place for their use too. A weird prog rock album that only has 5 sources? Absolutely. But does it make sense to add South Nevada University's review of the new Taylor Swift album that has 80 reviews listed on Metacritic? I'd hold off using it there. Sergecross73 msg me 15:23, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Decade questionEdit

It seems LucasKannou (talk · contribs) has been changing {{2000s-album-stub}} and its children to {{2010s-album-stub}} for albums released in 2010. They have been 2000s way for a while. Can anyone explain why that is the right or wrong move? The editor does not seem to want to listen to my rationale that there was no year 0. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia, the 2010s "was a decade that began on 1 January 2010, and ended on 31 December 2019." StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 21:34, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
It's technically true that decades go from 1 to 10 rather than 0 to 9, as you state, but doesn't it look odd to have a 2020 album categorised as Category:2020 albums and then immediately afterwards see {{2010s-album-stub}}? I think the average reader will find it difficult to comprehend that the 2010s don't start in 2010. Richard3120 (talk) 23:50, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
A decade is any 10-year interval (January 1, 1995 to December 31, 2004 is a decade). A century is any 100-year interval. The 21st Century began on January 1, 2001. The 2020s began on January 1, 2020. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 23:59, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
No, it does not look odd to have 2010 being in the 2000s and not in the 2010s because it is technically correct. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
I understand what you're saying about there being an issue as far as the year zero goes in the "00's", but I hardly feel like I've ever seen the sentiment that, for example, 1970 wasn't part of "the 70s"... Sergecross73 msg me 01:42, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
It may be "technically correct" but from everything I've ever seen it's never been popularly correct. End-of-decade coverage in all our favorite reliable sources always comes after an XXX9 year rather than an XXX0 year in my experience, and while I agree that it's silly and a bit confusing, we should defer to that as we always do. QuietHere (talk) 04:24, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Again, our favourite sources started doing this in the 90s. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:25, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Please help create the page for the new Pusha T albumEdit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:It%27s_Almost_Dry_(Album) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ackner2 (talkcontribs) 04:46, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ackner2:, it already exists here. TheCartoonEditor(he/him/they) (talk) (contribs) 05:41, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Under the RadarEdit

As the case with No Ripcord, Under the Radar is on the list of sources, but lacks a discussion in the archives. According to their article, they've been around since 2001, releasing four issues a year prior to the pandemic and have been nominated for a Plug Award on three occasions. They're used by Metacritic; a list of various editors can be found here. Here's various writing credentials I've found:

Thoughts? MusicforthePeople (talk) 16:56, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I support listing them as reliable. In addition to experienced writers, they started as a print magazine, which generally means they meet our requirements as well. Sergecross73 msg me 17:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Support as well. I think the only reason they've never been discussed is because as a long-established print publication, it was taken for granted that they meet RS. Richard3120 (talk) 17:14, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
I've never seen anything that would make me question UtR's legitimacy so I think they're in the clear. QuietHere (talk) 20:36, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

"Full Communism"Edit

FYI, the usage of Full Communism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is under discussion, see talk:Full Communism (album) -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 04:20, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Multiple track listingsEdit

The recently released Pusha T album It's Almost Dry currently has two track listing templates, one standard and one for the Ye vs. Pharrell version which contains all the same tracks but in a different order. The difference is also explained in a footnote below both templates that I think explains the difference quite succinctly, and so I decided to remove the latter template thinking it unneeded. That edit was quickly reverted, and given the WP:BRD setup I'd been given I went to the talk page and launched a query. The reversion of my edit also mentioned a similar situation regarding Kendrick Lamar's Damn. and its second "Collectors Edition" template (the Damn. Collectors Edition track list is the same as the original but in exact reverse order). I started a query there too but given the lack of response so far I was told to take my concerns here instead, and here we are. In my opinion neither second track list are necessary when they can just as easily be explained in a sentence or two of prose. Why take up all that space, put up even more content for users to have to scroll past, when you can make the same point so much more briefly? But of course there's at least one user who disagrees with this premise and so I come here for consensus. QuietHere (talk) 06:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree, repeating the whole track listing just for a different order is WP:INDISCRIMINATE. There is a clear precedent for this at WP:ALTTRACKLIST where it says "Include track listings for alternative editions only when they are significantly different and when the tracks are the subject of extensive commentary in the article. In such cases, additional track listings can be listed under subheadings. Otherwise, notable differences can be summarised in the prose in lieu of additional track lists.". I think unless there is specific commentary that the different track listing is significant e.g. one of the versions of the album is responsible for more sales etc, a note in wording perfectly suffices. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 09:18, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
I also agree, WP:ALTTRACKLIST is meant exactly for these cases. The existing short note is more than enough. --Muhandes (talk) 09:40, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
Thirded... what you and Lil-unique1 say is quite right, in fact it's easier to see the difference with the explanation in the note than by comparing the track listings. And these are for limited release versions anyway. Richard3120 (talk) 14:54, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Is this album notable enough?Edit

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I don't know if the album "Just Got Back From the Discomfort—We're Alright" by The Brave Little Abacus is notable enough to write about. There was an incredibly lengthy staff review in Sputnikmusic (enough to write an article based on, really), as well as making a place on SPIN's "30 Best Emo Revival Albums" list[21] and Crossfader's "emo primer":[22]. It also got a review in a student magazine[23], which I have been told is not reliable though. The album has received a lot of attention from unreliable sources, e.g. it is the 3rd ranked album from 2010 in the user-generated RateYourMusic[24], which is why I'm interested in writing about it, though I don't think that can factor into notability.

I started to write an article about it at User:Endwise/sandbox 2, but stopped because I didn't know enough about how WP:NALBUM works in practice. Do the 3 sources listed above (staff review in Sputnikmusic, appearence in SPIN and Crossfader lists), meet has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources? Thanks for the help. Endwise (talk) 16:58, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

@Endwise:Its a tricky one because it depends how much information it leads to. Try to avoid directly copying large chunks from the reviews. Did the album chart by any chance? ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 21:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Endwise:, its apparently mentioned in the book Perfect Sound Whatever by James Acaster too. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 21:15, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the help  . I don't think it charted because it only become popular a while after its release, though I don't know how to actually check. It seems Acaster's book briefly mentions that the album "had a beautifully stitched-together flow to it, full of detailed sound collages" and that Katie Dey was listening to it while trying to make music, and then it quickly moves on. That's something to mention in an article, though I think I'll have to keep looking before publishing a full article on it :( Endwise (talk) 04:08, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
For one, it'd be good to start with a draft based on what has been found so far just to see how much info you've actually got and what the article looks like. Might also make it easier for other editors to find more info if they can see the names involved. And the draft reviewers are generally good judges of what works as an article and what doesn't so you can rely on them as well. From what you've got so far it's hard to say whether it'd pass or not, but it's worth a try. QuietHere (talk) 09:15, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
I took a crack at it: Just Got Back From the Discomfort—We're Alright. Endwise (talk) 13:16, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sourcesEdit

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

  • John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JiroeEdit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jiroe. Sean Stephens (talk) 13:47, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Numbering of album chronology in leadEdit

BTS' upcoming album Proof is their first anthology album (their label announced it as such) and secondary sources corroborate this. In the chronology of their discography, it's their 7th compilation album and 4th Korean-lang compilation. I originally wrote the opening line of the lead as "Proof is an upcoming anthology album by South Korean boy band BTS...", but another editor changed that to "Proof is the upcoming fourth Korean-language compilation album (seventh overall) by South Korean boy band BTS...". There are no sources so far (BB, RS, NME etc.) to support the 7th or 4th, but if you count the albums yourself then the numbering becomes apparent. I have used similar wording in the past when appropriate, but usually secondary sources corroborate that particular detail. I looked at the Beatles anthology album articles for guidance when I worded the BTS album stub and thought it was fine like that. Idk if this amounts to splitting hairs, but is the present wording better? -- Carlobunnie (talk) 22:51, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

English versus BritishEdit

The following conversation at Talk:Ella_Henderson#RFC:_British_Versus_English might be of interest to you ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 13:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

GigslutzEdit

I'd like to propose adding British publication Gigslutz to the list of sources. According to the about tab on their Facebook page, they've been around since 2013 and had pieces featured in The Guardian, NME and Uncut. Here's various writing credentials I've found:

Thoughts? MusicforthePeople (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

I find it a bit difficult to take a name like that as a serious, professional publication...but they do have credentialed writers... Sergecross73 msg me 20:28, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
FWIW, I was sceptical about the name as well. I'm hoping the amount of credentials make up for that. MusicforthePeople (talk) 20:43, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

It's a British outlet - the name and "slang" Slutz is very tongue and cheek/British Humour. But look at their website they have some very credible endorsements from artists themselves:

  • “Gigslutz is our ‘go to’ online music site for our daily music news updates…. had the pleasure to be interviewed by them last year before the Happy Mondays re-union tour…was good to meet Steve …he was very knowledgeable about the band and asked some great questions ..and the piece he did for us was one of the best from that period”. Gaz Whelan (Happy Mondays)
  • “Gigslutz represent real deal music fans passionate for the right reasons. I love what they stand for! Musicians or bands can’t help but like them because they breakdown all barriers & make you feel like you’re being interviewed by your best mates. Love Gigslutz!” KAV
  • “Gigslutz.co.uk is the place I go to first for music news/reviews & what’s on. Always up to date with what’s happening and a great show on Hoxton Radio, which I’ve had the pleasure of appearing on. Keep it up.” Bonehead
  • “Gigslutz brings smart reviews and interviews about contemporary music, often introducing bands that are below the radar and giving them visibility. All in favour of that!” Horace Panter (The Specials)

On that basis, and because the contributors seem credible, I think its perfectly usable. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 21:03, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Does anyone have a copy of Rolling Stone's 2003 edition of the 500 Greatest albums of all time list?Edit

The 2012 and 2020 editions are available online, but the 2003 one isn't. At least it isn't available from any reliable source. Famous Hobo (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

For those who have Rolling Stone in print at their local library, the specific issue is No. 937 on December 11, 2003. Tkbrett (✉) 20:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Is there a specific thing you would like to know? I see the text in PQ. Caro7200 (talk) 20:10, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

There might be a copy in the British Library, I can have a look later this month. As Caro7200 said, is there something in particular that you need? Richard3120 (talk) 19:54, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
2003 list is available in Rolling Stone at this source in groupings of 50 albums from 500-451 to 50-1. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
So I really just needed confirmation of the inclusion of Californication by the Red Hot Chili Peppers at number 399, as well as what the reference would look like. Also the Rolling Stone website says that list is for the 2003 edition, but it's actually for the 2012 edition. This is the 2003 list and this is the 2012 list. Famous Hobo (talk) 20:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
No. 399 appears to be correct, other unofficial online copies of the list also place it at that position. But yes, it really needs an official copy of Rolling Stone to confirm it. It *should* be in the British Library – I'll try and remember to have a look for it when I'm there in a couple of weeks. Richard3120 (talk) 23:48, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Tracklist problemsEdit

I'm trying to start a new page for Daryl Hall's recently released Before After. However, I keep screwing up the track listing table. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:04, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

What seems to be the issue with it? I can't see anything that jumps out as immediately wrong. QuietHere (talk) 04:26, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
I think Tkbrett has already fixed it. Richard3120 (talk) 13:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Quiet Riot's debut albumEdit

Hi. Can anyone help with this requested move in regards to the album's release year? Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 16:52, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Heavy metal lead discussionEdit

(Yes, I know this is WT:ALBUMS, but this is probably the most active of the music related Wikiprojects so I thought I'd mention it here too.)

There is a discussion on how to handle the lead section in the heavy metal music article and how the lead covers the accusations of misogyny in the sourced section about sexism in the body. It can be located here. Any input is appreciated. Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 17:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)