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Fan editingEdit

Hey @Apoxyomenus: there's a Paulina Rubio fan that dislikes Thalía so he keeps deleting sales and certifications from her articles saying that the sources are unreliable. You, @88marcus:, and I have already explained to them that their is nothing wrong with the sources in the articles but he keeps reverting our edits and is now accusing us of vandalism. I think we since they won't stop edit warring with us, despite us trying to explain stuff to them, we should go another way about handling this. FanDePopLatino (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: I think this user thinks like: "If we can't use in the Paulina's article, you can't use in Thalía's too". The problem begun when you erase the 1 million copies sold claim in the Paulina's Border Girl article, because it's from the website "Los 40 Principales" which is listed here: Wikipedia:Record charts as a site to avoid for charts. It seem that he takes that as a personal attack to Paulina's performance (since all the inflated sales were erased in her articles) since the 1 million claim is near to the performance of the album worldwide. But the problem is that he erased some sources that can't be viewed as unreliable, the Brazilian magazine Quem, which listed the Thalía's 2003 album with 750,000 sold is one of them. I tried to find the same info in other websites but I couldn't find.--88marcus (talk) 18:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@88marcus: he actually removed everything from Thalía's articles before I removed the source from Los 40 Principales. I add content such as charts and sales to Paulina's articles too but this editor uses sources such as fan websites or primary sources to inflate sales for Paulina. I like Paulina but I know that fan websites are not reliable sources so I don't use them. It's like if this editor wants to use wikipedia as a fan blog for worshipping Paulina and hating on Thalía. FanDePopLatino (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@FanDePopLatino: now I see, you're right. This is happening for so long. I like Paulina too, and it was me who begun to post her albums's sales years ago, from reliable sites, I even searched for info in archived sites like El siglo de Torreon, to avoid some of her fan sites's claims like: La Chica Dorada sold 3,5 million and 24 Kilates 2,3 million and so on. It seems that when the user JohnFromPinckney eliminated the certs of 24 kilates and El Tiempo es Oro it gets worst, but all that he did seemed right, even now, as an example the La Chica Dorada which is listed as having Platinum+3x Gold in Mexico, but the Torreón article is not saying that, it's saying that she has a platinum record and 3 gold records in Union Americana(?), and about the claimed sales the other article is not specif if the 450,000 copies sold are from Mexico or worldwide.--88marcus (talk) 19:32, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@FanDePopLatino: @88marcus: I noticed. I guess one of the steps y'all can follow is a consensus in each article in which he made an edit (and I can participate into all of 'em). That's an appropriate way to start, but is longer. Wikiprojects like WikiProject Latin Music are almost inactive, so I guess the participation would be just between we four, but it's enough. The short-way if he continues with his edit-warring and disruptive editing, since he reverted two or three users (FanDePopLatino, 88 Marcus, or in some cases, me) and 'cause he also seemed like Wikipedia:IDONTLIKEIT with anything relating with Thalía, could be directly handle in WP:ANI. I also agree with almost everything with both of you guys, except his edition in Border Girl is right: Los 40 Principales could be a WP:BADCHARTS in charts matters, but beyond that is acceptable as a source per WP:RS in music articles, including sales claims and available sales/certifications from that album are close with that figure, as Habitame Siempre is with the half million. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 19:48, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@Apoxyomenus: @88marcus: well if Los 40 Principales is a reliable source for everything but sales then I don't have a problem with adding that back on the Border Girl article but even if I do, I don't think that the other user will stop reverting all our edits on Thalía's articles. If you guys think that's fine then I will add everything back for both Thalía and Paulina but if the other user reverts all the edits on Thalía's articles again then we should report them. What do you guys think? FanDePopLatino (talk) 20:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@FanDePopLatino: I mean, his edition what I can agree with, is only with Border Girl. His revertion with all Thalia's articles are disruptive. And we don't need to restore the others Rubio's articles with all of those poorly sources and questionable certifications (e.g. RIAA if we have available their database: example La Chica Dorada or Brava). --Apoxyomenus (talk) 20:12, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@Apoxyomenus: sorry I guess I didn't word my statement correctly. What I meant to say is that we can add back everything he removed from Thalía's articles and also add back the sales for Border Girl but just for that Paulina album. If after we do that the other user continues to remove the content from Thalía's articles then we should report them. FanDePopLatino (talk) 20:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
@Apoxyomenus: and @FanDePopLatino:, I agree. Only the edition in Border Girl was wrong. To me it's ok now.--88marcus (talk) 22:25, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Original Barnstar
Your ability to find a remarkable amount of reliable journalistic and academic sources really amazed me :) Keep up the good work, cheers. Bluesatellite (talk) 00:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks, @Bluesatellite: =). Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:47, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Notice of COI discussion re another editorEdit

There is currently a discussion you may be interested in at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Santiago Lodré and all the Paulina Rubio related articles. Normal Op (talk) 22:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Por Amor France salesEdit

Hi. I couldn't verify the France sales of the album Por Amor (AALM) even though tried to find an archived link in some websites. Maybe you include the wrong link, I never found nothing about the Por Amor sales there only about Amor a la Mexicana single sales.--88marcus (talk) 16:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

That source did use to have the sales but unfortunately it wasn't archived. If you look here it shows that that site was available a long time ago and it sourced the sales but it's unavailable now and ukmix is a forum so it can't be used in wikipedia. I used that forum to find out more about Thalía's sales and chart performance, that's how I was able to find the Korean chart and sales for her English album and was also how I found the Mexican sales for her 2002 self titled album. That information is true but since the sources are old it's hard to find an archive of them. FanDePopLatino (talk) 20:18, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for the late response, @88marcus: and @FanDePopLatino: I was off during this weekend. Por Amor sales in France was there, but url wasn't properly archived. I've tried Archive.org or Archive.today without a success. I did a quick advanced research on Google with publications in French such as Le Figaro but I couldn't find anything (yet). However, i'll remove those sales since is inverificable by now; was a mistake but I usually post any kind of refs in talk page first instead add them. BTW, please guys try to use a proper format for references (date=, work=, publication=, author= etc) and use italics when applicable (albums, tv shows) etc, quotation mark (" ") for singles and homogenize titles ("La vie en rose" vs "La vie en Rose" in a same article; "Amor a la Mexicana" vs "Amor a la mexicana" etc). Best regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:58, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Ok. I searched in the archived page of the website and I only found the positions of some albums and nothing about sales of any album there. Even the other website Infodisc doesn't list Thalía's album in their data about album sales not even with less than 30,000. Too bad. I'll follow your advices about the editions in Wikipedia's articles. Thanks. ;) --88marcus (talk) 00:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Guinness World RecordsEdit

Hello Apoxyomenus, do you have access to which year of Guinness World Records that wrote Whitney Houston as the most-awarded female artist of all time? The source used in the article is secondary source, not direcly from GWR. I'm afraid it's a fan-made record which actually never existed. I personally feel that Beyonce is more awarded woman. Bluesatellite (talk) 01:11, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Bluesatellite:. Secondary sources such as Billboard (2012) specified Houston obtained that GWR on August 15, 2006 with 411 awards (pag. 8). Although with this "limited preview" of the GWR book edition her name is nowhere (Craig Glenday; 2006 → even this one as well). In some sources but with lower quality like this one and other books (example), it's cited she got that record on 2009. Due some titles receives an update from GWR, even if their holder are the same, I tried to search book previews, press notes or an article related in 2009, but I couldn't find anything. Even advansed searches from 2006-2006 or 2006-2009 e.g: Craig Glenday; 2009 etc with same results. I also tried of course, the online version of GWR which categories everything/records/news. Websites like this one (2009) gave attribuiton of that info to her official website.
A short description of information's trajectory: In her Wikipedia list of awards & nominations article that info was originally added on December 26, 2006 without a reference (as "the Most Awarded/Popular Female Artist of All-Time" and is the same title used in her official webpage WhitneyHouston.com). Info remained there and a reference was only added four years later in that list on July 5, 2010 with this article from Miami Herald (MH) posted on 2007 (be advised that press article was published almost 1 year later from our unsourced info). In lead ("introduction") of our list that record was added on August 1, 2011 and August 6, 2011 and reference from Miami Herald (MH) remained in the "2006/GWR" section. Actually that source from MH is the same used as of today and that's more than ten years. I also noticed Whitney's awards information from her website (which is at the same time a copyrighted Sony's Entertainment property) looks like a "copy+paste" of our list and have virtually the same format.
Sometimes an unsourced info is added by many IPs and users, although there are actually references outside. GWR page doesn't include all their records and although some records actually exists are difficult to obtained an online proof. But is not wrong think with this case it's a result of a fan-made record probably originated in Wikipedia and now have tons of reliable and verified sources thanks to circular reporting and that's part of the woozle effect. At least, have a questionable background. We may only make sure if we ask directly to GWR enquiries. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 05:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Wow, it's a very detail research. I think for now it's best to remove the claim until someone could provide archived links or scans of Guinness World Records itself, not from secondary sources. I'm afraid this false information would continue to spread, especially since it's mentioned on the first paragraph of her article. Thank you very much for your time, as usual you're always very good in finding sources. Bluesatellite (talk) 08:41, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
@Bluesatellite: You're welcome. Not a problem at all. I also agree, you can remove that info (in her main article, the list of awards and I think is given in her list of records or discography) but you must explain why in a talk page rather than only an edit summary. Probably, someone can add additional research and could provide scans etc. If don't, a consensus could help to avoid that and prevent of future edit wars or "vandalism" but will depends in a final result. These step maybe will be enough, but a hoax (or a possible hoax) of over 10 years its really difficult to "erase" in some fans and reader's minds. BTW, I think (I haven't did a research) is the same history of the GWR belongs to MJ as the "most awarded performer in music history", due may of his articles hasn't been properly patrolled during years and years, and "irrelevant" (such as polls) and unsourced awards (probably fictional awards) has been there until BrothaTimothy recently has been working on that list. However, in his case its more convincent that he really obtained a hundreds of awards compared to Houston or above other musicians. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 21:59, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

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FAC: Love for Sale (Bilal album)Edit

Hi. Could you spare some time and review my nomination of this article? Thanks. isento (talk) 22:52, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Correct usage of {{certification Table Bottom}}Edit

Hi Apoxyomenus. I noticed you are adding sales figures to certification tables, like you did here and here. Please note that when you are adding a sales figure, you are most likely removing a previous footnote marker. You therefore may need to correct the use of {{certification Table Bottom}} at the end of the table, since the footnotes at the bottom of the table should match the footnote denotations used in the table itself. You can see the corrections I made here and here. Of course, this is not always needed, depending on other certifications used in the table. If you need any help with that I'll be happy to assist. As always, your contribution is greatly appreciated. Enjoy your editing. --Muhandes (talk) 10:16, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

@Muhandes: OK not a problem. Good to know minor details like that. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Rollback abuseEdit

Can you explain this revert? LSGH (talk) (contributions) 01:50, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

@LSGH: Yes, this is the explanation. It's not a "rollback abuse", it was only a missclick. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:58, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

My wiki postsEdit

Hey, if you research the subject matter you will find that these songs have outdated certified units. I’m updating them based on predicted sales units as of now. I can change my wording if that’s okay? Kai875 (talk) 01:59, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

my tweaksEdit

Hi, I’m confused how my edits were vandalism when they are factual sale eligibilities. Kai875 (talk) 02:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Kai875:. Welcome. I saw Tbhotch replied you. Keep in mind any addition need a reliable source. You can't add anything based on your own conclusion with assumptions like are "old figures" or certifications "are eligible to be updated". Of course, not all sources in the Internet can be added with us; you can see a non-exhausit list here. In addition, all your updates with Carey's sales are wrong since we work by de facto with figures based on certifications/sales available and other factors (like tenier), and not with the next available claimed sales which are ipso facto, inflated. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 03:37, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

But doesn’t this also mean that some of the information is wrong? if you cite sources to back up eligibilities would that be fine? because some artists choose not to update songs or albums for years so if someone wanted to know precise sales they would get inaccurate information? thanks for your help Kai875 (talk) 13:07, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

@Kai875: For sure, there are many examples of titles with "outdated" certifications. But is not our job, certifications must came from their official entities when are available, like the RIAA database. If they say 2x Platinum is 2x Platinum. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. And we only refer those available sales if came from authority sources like Nilesen/Billboard in the United States. If you have additional questions, please refer to use article's talk page or music Wikiprojects like Wikipedia:Wikiproject Music, Wikipedia:Wikiproject Albums or Wikipedia:WikiProject Record Charts. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:21, 3 March 2021 (UTC)


Hey Apoxyomenus shouldn't pitbull be a top selling artist since he has 65 million records. he has said in multiple interviews. Oscarotero3 (talk) 08:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Oscarotero3:. Any addition requires a reliable source. I don't know his available sales/certified units, so you should consider ask in the talk page of the list of best-selling Latin artists since 60 million seems an important (and high) figure for him. Looks like almost those sales came from songs with digital+streaming units. Maybe there are other lower claims and it could help to make comparisons. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:40, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

1989 (Taylor Swift album)Edit

Hello, as cited here, this album was certified in two formats: CD (which was Gold, then Platinum) and DAL ("digital album", which was Gold). I reverted your edits back to the previous version. Best regards, (talk) 03:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

@: No problem. I noticed it in your edit summary. BTW, thank you for improve and removing fancruft stuffs in her articles. I've noticed she have had that problem with several of her articles, including those with GA/FA status. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 03:58, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
If you happen to notice fancruft, please start discussions on talk page to raise awareness. I believe not all Taylor Swift WikiProject editors could keep an eye on all of them. Thank you for your work. (talk) 04:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


Hi, please check notifications from TR Wikipedia related the your source request. Kingbjelica (talk) 13:37, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@Kingbjelica: Oh, thank you very much for let me know. "Ping" template didn't work. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:52, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of List of artists influenced by Madonna for deletionEdit

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of artists influenced by Madonna is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of artists influenced by Madonna until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Noah 💬 20:58, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

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Happy First Edit Day!Edit

Uruguay chartsEdit

Hey I found this page archive with the official airplay chart in Uruguay before the site stopped. This was the country's official airplay chart and it shows on the side of the page how the chart is calculated. Do you think we can start using it or should we discuss it somewhere else first? Also @88marcus: what do you think? FanDePopLatino (talk) 14:45, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi, @FanDePopLatino:. Appears to be good as they said airplay charts were based in the report of 30 national radio stations and used by other 40 tv channels/radio stations. They also mentioned the name of CUD (the official certification body in that country) in their web. On the other hand, not sure if CUD had charts for singles at that time in their own website. I would recommend start discussion in Wikiprojects Latin Music or Record charts to have additional opinions and have that info backed as maybe it can be incorporated into GOODCHARTS. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 15:30, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@FanDePopLatino: seems reliable. But I agree with Apoxyomenus about start discussion in Wikiprojects Latin Music or Record charts. ;) .--88marcus (talk) 15:46, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@Apoxyomenus: & @88marcus: ok let's do it then. Since it's a latin chart, let's do the discussion on Wikiprojects Latin Music. FanDePopLatino (talk) 16:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Adding digital album charts when the main album chart is already presentEdit

Hi there. I just noticed you added the Portuguese digital albums chart to the year-end charts table on Madame X (album) when the main albums chart was already present. As digital sales already contribute to the main chart, this is generally considered redundant and shouldn't be included. Also, I see you've added listings to year-end charts that include compilations when the main year-end chart for those countries is already present. I debated removing these myself as compilations don't chart on most main album charts in the world anyway so I don't really see why we should care where an album is placed if compilations are taken into account at year's end for that country, but don't be surprised if other editors consider them redundant and are more bold in removing them. Ss112 04:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ss112: That's fine. I had my doubts with the Portuguese "Ditigal chart". Regarding "albums and compilation charts", at least for Hungary that's probably the actual name ("Hungarian albums and compilations) for their year-end chart, and they divided it by "rank" & "sales" as translation suggests. BTW, other articles such as Map of the Soul: 7 specified "rank" & "sales".
I know, there is editors that could delete those chart. Perhaps if an editor start to delete them massively need to be backed by a specific/general consensus for that since opinions might vary. There is in the way, other things less obvious that can be overlooked. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 10:09, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia EspañolEdit

Hola, gusto saber si puedes ir a la pagina del usuario MadonnaFan para denunciar vandalismo en la pagina de Selena Quintanilla por que sus ventas no dejan de ser vandalizadas. A mí me bloquearon por la más mínima edición ahora. Necesito que le avises de las ventas infladas. Link: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario_discusi%C3%B3n:MadonnaFan#Asunto_de_ventas_infladas_de_Selena, las paginas donde necesita limpieza por vandalismo extremo agregando cifras inexistentes. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amor_prohibido_(%C3%A1lbum_de_Selena) No se puede engañar a la gente. Gracias — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexanderShakifan29 (talkcontribs)

@AlexanderShakifan29: Sorry for the late response. I've seen he already helped to delete all of those inflated sales. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:59, 3 June 2021 (UTC)


I edited Shakira's page that she had also inspired Britney and Katy Perry, however the problem is that the only sources I have are YouTube videos, one was from an interview with Britney that was carried out and names Shakira as her influence however not a page spoke of it and I could only rescue that video. On Wikipedia it explains that "The videos can also be used as a convenience link to material originally posted elsewhere." The videos were aired on television but no one spoke about them I ask you to find a solution. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 19:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@AlexanderShakifan29: Please see WP:RSPYT. There is nothing I can do for that situation; you must wait to have that information backed by a third-party source. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:19, 6 June 2021 (UTC)