Talk:Underoath/Archive 3

They are SCREAMO

duh they are screamo are you wikipedia nerds that dumb p.s. go fuck yourself

hey, have you ever visited UO myspace? on myspace the band chooses "Screamo / Rock / Alternative" as their genre of music, which means they think of themselves as a SCREAMO band. and Tim said on Taste Of Chaos DVD that the only genre of music they DONT listen to was METAL.

it seems that some of you guys believe UO is a metalcore band, but How can you say so?

do you really know about Heavy Metal? i cannot say exactly what metalcore sounds like but Im sure that we cannot put UO into the same category as Hatebreed.

anyway, they are screamo. thats no wonder. Period.

Myspace and the bands themselves aren't reliable sources. Inhumer (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. We can all make a band myspace account, then make the genre as "Screamo / Rock / Alternative", when we play a different kind of music. Just because they view themselves as that, doesn't mean they are. -Lindsey8417 (talk) 19:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The most reliable recourse regarding a bands genre would be the band it self. Saksjn (talk) 18:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Look if you go on Blessthefall's myspace it shows their genre as "healing and easy listening". Now, listen to their songs on there. Do you really think that that is what their music is? Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 23:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

underoath is metalcore not screamo Seth4000 (talk) 10:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)Seth4000

it's frigging screamo. it says so on jesus freak hideout, which is a professional site. Danielaustinhall12 (Go Wolverines!) 22:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I think the article Old Underoath could be merged into this as a section. Axcess (talk) 03:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The Underoath article needs quite a bit of work itself and there really isn't a reason to have an "Old Underoath" article. -Lindsey8417 (talk) 08:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It appears that the Old Underoath article started as a blatant cut and paste of the original Underoath Article. Since both articles have been edited since then i think there is still information of value in the Old Underoath article, but I am unsure what. Axcess (talk) 17:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It did look cut and pasted. Anyways, the Underoath article desperately needs a rewrite. The intro is way too short, and there are about 6 citations, so just about the rest of the article remains as POV and original research until proven otherwise. Also, am I the only one who thinks that the whole "Departure From Warped Tour and NOFX Controversy" is too long and completely out of place as the NOFX article doesn't even have a large section devoted to a largely overblown "controversy"? And the band members section... does it need to be so lengthy? Should there just be a 'current' and 'past' members part? -Lindsey8417 (talk) 08:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I just redirected it to here.Inhumer (talk) 00:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't exactly what I had in mind, there was a guy actively working on that page almost daily... I didn't want to destroy his work, after all that page had evolved much since the original cut and paste. - Axcess (talk) 00:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Theres no need for any band to have two articles. Inhumer (talk) 00:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I know... thats why i proposed the merge... but throwing all that information away isn't exactly a merge. - Axcess (talk) 00:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I started the re-write. It should be in some decent form by later tonight. -Lindsey8417 (talk) 03:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

New Stuff

I'm not very good at updating wikipedia or anything, but Underoath has a lot of new stuff going that should probably be added:

http://www.saintrocknroll.com/interview.php?band=Underoath&date=2007-03-23 <-- Small bit of info on a new studio album.

http://underoath777.com/news.php?id=137 <-- Underoath Movie

http://underoath777.com/news.php?id=138 <-- Live concert DVD 75.88.27.166 18:40, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I added the first source in the future album part Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 22:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Gill from Metal Hammer here, before posting on the site, wanted to run by you how worthy you thought the following is (it's out interview in which Tim McTague talks about Avenged Sevenfold http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/underoath-avenged-sevenfold-are-a-gimmick/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.167.143.229 (talk) 16:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Genre, again...

Ok, I'm not here to get into an arguement or start something with the whole genre dispute because frankly, I don't particularly like Wikipedia internet conflicts. Moving on. So, I would just like to know what the other editors had "agreed" on for the infobox genres. Currently in there is: Deathcore, Christian Metalcore, Screamo, and Post Hardcore. I'm not sure I agree with Screamo (it was added in by an annon just a bit ago, and I'm not sure if it was re-added or the annon put it there on pure whim). Are those what was sort of silently agreeed upon? And if so, are there sources besides our personal beliefs? I'll be adding some references, but I'm not sure Deathcore is an appropriate genre - I'd have to agree more with Melodic death metal, which also has a source. -Lindsey8417 (talk) 00:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It was added by Skateremorocker,Rockismorethanmusic, or whichever IP he uses because he think any band with screamy vocals is Screamo. Inhumer (talk) 05:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Infoboxes are only supposed to have information in them that is already in the article. Thus if the infobox was removed no information would be lost. If he is going to add information to an info box, he should also add the appropriate info to the article and cite it. Axcess (talk) 06:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Alright they are a Metalcore band and screamo. but how about this Since non of you think there a screamo band even though there myspace,allmusic,missling,and purevolume. lets just put them a Metalcore since that means Metal and hardcore together,and christian metal. Oh and some of their song are emo, i mean writting on the walls,a moment suppended in time,everyone looks go from here, and couple other songs sound emoish to me.User:Rockismorethanmusic

"In recent years, the term screamo has been very commonly used to describe emo, alternative rock, metalcore, or hardcore bands with emo influences.[3]" - Screamo Article.

If you want to put it all bluntly, screamo is music that is mostly singing vocals with screams added in. For isntance Emery, Kids In The Way's "Safe from the Losing Fight (only)," Swing kids, City of Catterpiller, etc. Listen to those bands, and the only thing that will make them related to underoath is the screaming style (to a point). Also, wikipedia goes by consensus, which I don't like as much as the next guy, but it has already been agreed upon that Underoath has SOME screamo qualities, which is while I kept it in the category. and NO, they are NOT Emo. Emo is styled with lyrics as well, their lyrics are very much anti-emo if you want to put it in those terms. Finally, "couple other songs sound emoish to me." Just because they sound Emo to you doesn't make them emo. You have to KNOW, not THINK. IronCrow (talk) 02:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The band has a lot of christian support, christian music shops sell them, they play them on the (australian) christian radio station and even again the wikipedia page labels them in interviews as a christian band, yet whenever someone adds that to the genre. BANG revert!

can we have what we have at the flyleaf page.

Christian rock (disputed)

like even some of the lyrics are christian for instance, some will seek forgiveness... "And jesus im ready to come home" im not going to add anything without permission or even argue this point, im just asking everyones opinion --Casket56 (talk) 07:12, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I think deathcore should be included in the box because of the strong deathcore influence on their early stuff. Perhaps we could make a note next to it, that says "(early)" or "(former)"CheesePiggy (talk) 20:35, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Ridiculous Genre Debating

This talk-page is rather large, and mainly discussing what genre the band is. All said, you can't just call them or any band screamo, because of screaming vocals in their music. Their not really metal either. So, I propose instead of having 4 to 5 genre's on the bands page, and the respective pages for all the albums, the band is marked as "Deathcore (early)" and "Christian Metalcore (recent)" with the genre's listed on each album simplified respectively

this talk page isn't one of the lamest edit wars for no reason, the genre's need to be set and basically locked for editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.253.33.97 (talk) 07:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

They ARE hardcore

Although they are hardcore, they CAN also be classified as screamo, because most of the lyrics are screamed. I, unlike most people it seems, am against what has become a barrage of genres, sub-genres etc... 750hgn1md4 (talk) 10:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Another common example of misuse of the screamo genre. ~Ambrosia- ^talk 07:04, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

The lyrics don't seem to have very emo themes IMO. Plus most hardcore/metalcore bands scream lyrics but are not screamo/emo (Botch anyone?) St. Jimmy 22:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

There's no such music genre as "hardcore". - GunMetal Angel 20:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh? It that your opinion as an editor, or as a professional music critic? This is why I want this page archived- year-old threads being responded to. --King Öomie 20:33, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

That's not my opnion at all, there's is NO such music genre as hardcore at all -- unless of course you mean "hardcore punk", but there's way too many kids that have no clue what they're talking about, thus the originally meaning for "hardcore" has sunken down into being meaningless, so yeah, there's no such music genre as hardcore. -- GunMetal Angel 20:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC)'

List of hardcore genres --King Öomie 20:45, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, notice how they're all based off of hardcore PUNK, it's glorious to have adults that use Wikipedia old enough to know what the term rightfully is. -- GunMetal Angel 20:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

My point was that I'm sick of people waxing Music Critic on this page. A couple of my posts in the new archive (thank you) say as much. I'll leave the sarcasm and assumptions alone. --King Öomie 20:58, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Melodic?

how were underoath ever melodic death metal first of all the melodic version of death metal has more sung vocals than death metal, and underoaths first two albums, typically have 95% screamed vocals, and anyway if these are melodic, who would u call just death metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC) listen to In Flames, one of the bands that created melodic death metal, you get growled and screamed vocals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinb904 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually not death metal nor melodic death metal have ANY sung vocals (although, there's an occasional exception in In Flames' recent material) but as for Underoath themselves, they're typically melodic metalcore; melodic death metal-influenced metalcore, that's where the screams come in within the blend of it all. But accordingly I just call it all metalcore to avoid disorientation. - GunMetal Angel 20:24, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Musical style section proposal

Perhaps we can curb some of this by adding a Musical style section to the article itself. We should reduce the infobox to one or two genres as to Aim for Generality, and then take care of the dispute using a Musical style section such as is used in At the Drive-In and Fall Out Boy. Describing Underoath's sound rather than trying to sum it up with one word as a genre would most likely do more justice anyway. We could also say something to the order of "Despite having a highly metalcore sound, Underoath is often referred to as Screamo.", similar to the Musical style section in Fall Out Boy. Axcess (talk) 17:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I am out of my mind, we have a musical style section... But I still think we should narrow down the genres in the infobox and put the alternate genres in the musical style section, as well as something about screamo. Axcess (talk) 17:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There's already some that has been agreed upon (for the most part), such as them being a Christian band (according to the band itself), and they are metalcore by definition. An overview of their style in a better... format (trying to find a word here) would be great. I think if we add Screamo, it'll make those biased towards screamo happy, but adding "elements of screamo" or something to that effect may help this insanely annoying edit war finally end (it's still going on, partially). IronCrow (talk) 18:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

here's my thing the band has openly said they are christian's in a band, but the band it's self says they are just a regular seular hardcore band with christian members in the band. so should we take christian metalcore off the genre and leave Metalcore. then on the sum up we can underoath metalcore band with christian members?User:Rockismorethanmusic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockismorethanmusic (talk • contribs) 19:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I had added a "Musical styles and influences" section and wrote a pretty basic two paragraphs. One about the whole being a Christian band, but moreso in the way they were influenced, and not their lyrics directly. The second paragraph still needs work, but its just a summary of the band through their albums and the shift in their musical style. I think that we should eventually add a paragraph at the beginning stating something like, "Underoath has been described as "*genre*", "*genre*", "*genre*", "*genre*", etc...." and after each genre would be a notable citation. -Lindsey8417 (talk) 22:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Um you never really answer my quistion.User:Rockismorethanmusic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.16.129 (talk) 22:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

If you read the Musical Style and influences section, there is a part addressing your concern.

However, as vocalist Spencer Chamberlain explains, "[Christian but in] a different way. We’re not like your average Christian band."[10] He further explains that Christianity is "backbone of our lives, especially in the way that we handle certain things, but it’s not so much the backbone of our lyrics."

In that Quote, Spencer Explains that they are a Christian band, but not your average Christian band. After seeing that quote it seems to me that Christian Metalcore is more accurate than just Metalcore. Axcess (talk) 16:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

They a say on this video that christian secnce is not important at all for their band User:Rockismorethanmusic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.233.232.52 (talk) 15:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Please quit this. Edit wars made my head hurt, and Idon't want it to start up again. I think they've made it clear they are a Christian band with non-evangelicalistic goals. Much like most other Christian bands out nowadays. Tim in the video also said they do limit themselves to the Chrsitian scene. They DID NOT say they are not a Christian band, just that they are not limiting themselves to playing with just Christian bands. Infact, this video might be linked already in the article.IronCrow (talk) 06:58, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Act of Depression sales

I just noticed that under the Act of Depression title it says that the EP sold over 2000 copies.... But on the Act of Depression Page, and from whatever else I have read, only about 1000 were released? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.105.113.130 (talk) 05:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

2008 Album

The "Rumor" is that it will be called "I Am the Culprit"? Where is this rumor coming from...? Not to bash the person who wrote it but I would just like to have evidence before I go around spreading this rumor. So do you have a source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.120.99 (talk) 01:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I edited it out since no citation was made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.23.231 (talk) 21:57, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

their MySpace says the name of the new album Stryper101 (talk) 10:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

This discussion is from February so no more comments are necessary. Also MySpace is not a reliable reference. The album has also been released so this discussion is irrelevant. – Jerry^teps 11:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Unblack Metal

Ok am i the only one that believes this is the genre underoath used to play, or am i the only one here thats even heard of it? i mean the sound follows every aspect of this genre.

Unblack Metal is like Christian Black Metal, the two used interchangably. When Thinking of Black Metal or Holy Unblack Metal, think of Antestor, Horde, and some aspects of earlier Extol albums. IronCrow (talk) 15:58, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

thats my point. they sound alot like those bands but with death metal and metalcore mixed in. listen to how the guitars are played and the sound of the vocals for other unblack metal bands and then compare them to one of underoaths songs such as "the last" or "walking away." they both use faint, far away sounding vocals and the guitars are fast paced and each guitar sounds very blended and smooth with a hard edge. what i have also noticed is that black metel uses the... um... i dont know what they are called but its the symbal like things on the drums,whatever those are called, but i have noticed they use it alot more than other genres. you aparently dont know what i mean when i say "aspect." every genre of metal has a patern it follows. (this is the reason nu metal isnt metal. it doesnt follow metal styles. it just sounds hard like metal.) Death metal for example, uses loud pounding guitars, a steady beat (unlike metalcore), excess or increased bass, and angry at-the-top-of-your-lungs, half yelling, half growling vocals. i havent heard one black metal influence in extol at all. the bands u mentioned are all european bands that have some different about them. european black metal bands are a bit different than american black metal bands. antestor was doom metal origanaly but became unblack metal later. to me they are just barely unblack metal. horde is synthetic. its a one man band basically either playing all the parts or using synthetic instruments.

I don't know. I don't think they sound like Antestor, and certainly not Horde. If you haven't heard any Black metal with Extol, listen to their ealier stuff. Antestor has always been labeled black metal since the beginning, not really "Doom Metal" (they called themselves Sorrow Metal). Horde is DEFINITLY not "synthetic," which I think the term you mean is "Industrial (Circle of Dust). Infact, Horde was the first Christian Black Metal band. You stated that with Underoath: "thats my point. they sound alot like those bands but with death metal and metalcore mixed in." then went off to state the bands mentioned were not Black metal/unblack metal. I don't understand what yuou are getting at. IronCrow (talk) 06:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

What about Melodic Unblack Metal??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.23.231 (talk) 01:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

i will elaborate more when i have the time. and what i mean by "they sound like those bands..." is that they sound like many of the bands on the unblack metal page. they all took influences from black metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.38.188 (talk) 03:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

That's where we differ. They sound as unlike as Nickleback and Relient K sound in comparison to each other. IronCrow (talk) 00:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I think they sound Antestor-ish. Like Melodic Unblack Metal is what Id describe old UO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.23.231 (talk) 14:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

That's opinion... judging that their instruments and vocals sohave compeltely different frequencies... I don't understand how you could think that... anyways, have a source? ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 05:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

one of my sources "was" underoaths wiki page. quote: "... and in their earlier albums, swimming in the depths of black metal..." this stayed on the page for about half a year (starting from when i first read the page) up untill now. another of my sources are the reviews of their earlier albums on amazon.com. im not saying they were not dethcore, they were mainly dethcore in act of depression and then became mainly unblack metal in cries of the past. i listen to genres with a technical point of view, which is why we disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.150.184.22 (talk) 21:46, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

A wiki is a user edited source so, technical? I listen to music as music.¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 22:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Sean Rood?

I looked here earlier today and the article said something along the lines of "On March 28, Underoath announced that Sean Rood would be joining the band, providing low growling vocals and double synth"

i notice it has since been removed, quite rightly as far as i can tell as I have found no evidence to support this claim

does whoever inserted the information have any? Or anyone else know anything on this matter? Smive (talk) 21:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd say it's just vandalism or whatnot. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 05:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Survive kaleidøscøpe

I glance at this page every once and a while, and lately I have noticed that Survive kaleidøscøpe jumps between main releases and dvd. In fact, right now it is in both sections. Perhaps this should be discussed on where it belongs to generate a consensus, and stop the constant movement. Fezmar9 (talk) 23:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, there are now TWO Survive Kaleidoscope pages: Survive, Kaleidoscope and Survive kaleidøscøpe. Fezmar9 (talk) 03:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Survive kaleidøscøpe redirects to the other. I can't say much about what it should be considered though, I don't know enough about it, but seeing as it isn't an album with all new songs... I dunno. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 02:31, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Well it looks like the second one got deleted and now redirects to the first - when I made that post there were two distinctly different pages for the same album. Problem solved I guess. I don't think the album belongs in the studio album section. I do now see how this page is set up with DVD's, and I can understand why it is posted in both DVD's and studio albums. The Underoath discography should correspond with the Underoath template and have a separate section for "live albums" with Survive being the only album under this category. Fezmar9 (talk) 03:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Underoath's style of muisc

Emo777 (talk) 08:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)== Underoath's Style of music ==

Everyone keeps asking about they're genre, is it really that hard to figure out. First off they're not screamo, because screamo DOESN'T apply to all forms of screaming music, it only applys to the emo genre (look it up!). Also, I guess they're hard to define because they're style has changed so many times. I wouldn't call them hardcore or punk-rock. Right now I think I'd call them more towards Metalcore than anything, except their 1st 3 albums (Act of Depression, Cries of the Past, and The Changing of Times). Act of Depression and Cries of the Past sounded more like Melodic Death Metal or Deathcore. The Chaning of Times wasn't what I would call any form of metal. That was more just plan hardcore to me. But yeah, i'd call them (Currently) a Christain Metalcore band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emo777 (talk • contribs) 08:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC) Emo777 (talk) 04:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, technically (by definiton) they fit metalcore, however, I think the big deal is taht they don't sound like other metalcore bands.¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 19:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Well the reson why many people still label underoath screamo is due to their last album. which had more emo elements to it. A real Screamo band is like Blessthefall, Emery, Scary Kids Scaring Kids, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, A Day To Remember, Chiodos, Alesana, Haste The Day and many other bands. Underoath's style of music has change over time. It's gone from Death Metal/Black Metal to Screamo/emocore. Now their style is More Metalcore/Punk Metal/Post Hardcore, and Yes i would say the screamo and emo elemets are still their but not as much. I mean in Define The Great Line Spencer started to add some death growls, and they are starting to being the double bass back more. I mean how know their next album could be deathcore. I honstly i think we should Put Metalcore/Expermental Metal/Punk Metal/Christian Metal as their genre but thats just me.Skateremorocker (talk) 13:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider most of the bands you lsited as screamo either, cept Blessthefall and possibly Chiodos. Haste the Day is definitly NOT screamo, it's metalcore. Alesana I would say is, but I already argued with the so-called queen of the Alesana page over it's genre and just left it. And again, Underoath is still metalcore, they are by definition, however, they are more melodic I guess. Still, the genre isn't what is to be primarily focused on - It's the article itself. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 03:59, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Define the Great Line did have some emo elements, but I don't think i'd call them screamo still, mainly due to the fact the screamo bands (usually) don't have deathgrowls in them. I wouldn't call them Unblack Metal either, mainly due to the fact that they're main metal sound was lost when Dallas Taylor and Cory Stager left the band. I think i'd call them Metalcore rather than anything else, but i'm not really sure due to the fact that they said that they're next album was going to be their heaviest album yet, so yeah, it's kinda confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emo777 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Emo777 (talk) 04:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... there's a difference between Melodic and emo. Underoath = melodic. Emo = My Chemical Romance. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 22:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a good example of it.Emo777 (talk) 23:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Unknown Song

Hey I've found this song, it's called Failure, and it's by Underoath. The thing is I can't find it on any album, it's not a bonus track, can someone help? I'm pretty sure that it's them, it sounds more like one of their older songs, it's got Dallas Taylor doing vocals, and Cory Stegar on guitar. Any help would be useful, thanks.Emo777 (talk) 09:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

If you're refering to this then by reading the comments it belongs to Unearth. This is confirmed by going to The Oncoming Storm, it is the second track on that album and matches the song lengths. Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 11:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, if you got it off iTunes, it's got a good chance of being mislabeled. By the way... that doesn't sound like Taylor to me, heh. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 13:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah that's the song thanks. Oh, BTW, about the vocals sounding like Taylar, and the Guitar being Cory Stegar, I was in a hurry and didn't think. What I should have put was one of my friends said that it was done by underoath when Taylar and Cory was in the band. I wasn't sure cause it didn't sound like Taylor. And yes, one of my friends downloaded it for me, I don't know if he got it off of itunes or limewire though. Thanks again:)Emo777 (talk) 03:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Alright Genre

As of now the genre is Metalcore, Post Hardcore, (old stuff) Deathcore this is right. Many people put Screamo, Emo Now i can understand screamo since many sites label them as screamo. BUT PLESE HELP BECASUE THIS GENRE IS GETTING ME MAD.Skateremorocker (talk) 21:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree that their not Emo or any of that but they are Christian so that should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.128.207 (talk) 15:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

So we aren't labeling them as a christian band and yet its stated that define the great line is the highest charting christian album since 1997. Someone please explain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.158.67.218 (talk) 06:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well the band did say that they are christians in a band, and that they look at themselfs like a regular seuclar hardcore just with christian members. it says it in the article. so why do we need to post it all over the place. Their just a regular Metalcore/Hardcore Band.Skateremorocker (talk) 12:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we should call them just a regular band... not as long as its not just because of what they say... wikipedia articles shouldnt be what the bands want, its ok not to call underoath a christian band, but do it because the music isnt so... not because they dont want to be labbeled that. loveyourfaithLoveyourfaith (talk) 13:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Who says underoath are emo?i mean what fans?the only people who think they're emo are people who hate them and think thats so because they're <insert here>core.--Nirvanarox55 (talk) 13:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The reason people call them emo is because their last album (Define the Great Line) sounded kinda like emocore. But it was just plain Metalcore. Emo777 (talk) 08:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Grant Brandell???

On the table showing member apperances, it shows that Grant isnt going to be on the next album. Is this a mistake or is it true??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.23.231 (talk) 03:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I noticed this. It doesn't have anything cited, nor does it mention anything about him leaving in the article... Hmm... Methinks it's a mistake. Can anyone provide a source?Mr bouregaurd (talk) 03:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't find any source so i added him in for the new album. Took me a while to figure out how though. Damn me being sleep deprived. Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 10:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I would think if he was leaving they would have announced it on their myspace page.-Sector311 (talk) 14:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

thing is... the term "emo" stands for "emotional hardcore", a genre of music that evolved out of hardcore punk, with (usually slower) more emotional vocal styles, eventually leading to screaming, and the genre further evolved and seperated into "screamo". which is what underoath is

"post-hardcore" is different, in that it did NOT come from emotional hardcore, but hardcore punk itself. it is characterized by hardcore punk music, often with shouted (more commonly screamed) vocals. a good example of this is blindside, especially their album "a thought crushed my mind" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.74.36 (talk) 09:25, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

grant didnt play on changing of times —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.7.103 (talk) 01:25, July 3, 2008 (UTC)

who the hell thinks post-hardcore came from emo?emo is a hardcore punk sub-genre,post-hardcore is a watch-you-mu-call it genre descended from hardcore. screamo however kinda was more emo(more specifically it was 'emo violence') at first(with bands such as moss icon and indian summer) and was higher pitched ussually,but then it just broke off to a lot of post-hardcore bands,who were not 'emo'.80% of todays post-hardcore bands are screamo,but lower pitched. emo screamo was also more angry(angrier than post-hardcore screaming,bands like city of c aterpillar and circle takes the square) and a lot more pained(with bands such as saetia and funeral diner). alternatively if hardcore acctually means pure as in it is hard in the core of the centre,and stereotypically punk is a genre which is extremely impolite,noisy,messy,headachy etc.,something to displease fans of mozart(remember,stereotypically),then if it 'hardcore',it would go to great measures,resulting to 'why sing beatifully when you can scream?'.thats just my opinion of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nirvanarox55 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Pages to be deleted

Just so everyone editing Underoath pages is aware, it is significantly easier to rename a page than it is to create a new page on the same subject. There are two Underoath album pages (Untitled Underoath Album and Live (Underoath album)) that were created before much information was known about them. Once a title and more information was released, a new page was created leaving the old pages abandoned. I have proposed their deletion and alerted the author, the next step is to wait for them to be deleted by an administrator. Fezmar9 (talk) 18:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Lost in the Sound of Separation??????????????

Where did they found out the name?? I checked the website, but nothing. Is this the real name??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.23.231 (talk) 19:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

If you click on the page for it, there's a citation at the bottom from MTV news that says it is. 63.230.2.36 (talk) 22:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Christian metalcore

This genre does not exist, it redirects to Christian metal and there is a difference between metal and metalcore. Those sources are referring to their religion. I think the article could use a Christian faith section. Their religion does not belong in the infobox or the lead sentence. It is misleading when in the lead, it appears they are a 'Christian metalcore' band instead of a metalcore band with Christian members. Landon1980 (talk) 17:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well the band did say that they are christians in a band, and that they look at themselfs like a regular seuclar hardcore just with christian members. it says it in the article. so why do we need to post it all over the place. Their just a regular Metalcore/Hardcore Band.Skateremorocker (talk) 12:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Please stop removing the genre. The bands states that they are a Christian band, and this entire argument was finished. Keep it there. PLEASE NOTE: Just because you think Christian metal isn't a genre, that does not mean it isn't. read the article on Christian metal BEFORE editing it out again. Read the sources, where they DO SAY that they are a "Christian hevy rock band." You guys should read the archives of the page before you edit. We've gone though this with dozens of editors contributing. SEE: http://www.solidstaterecords.com/artist_bio.php?id=208&expand=1 They state they are a Christian band. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 20:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ALSO I would like to add: You guys have obviously NOT read this article. Read the article, it is sourced to the neck with sources varifying that they are a Christian band. Again, just because you do not believe a Christian band exists or whatnot, does not mean they do not exist. What you've "heard" meand little. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 20:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see what the problem is, it's fine the way it is now. Just don't put "Christian metalcore" in the infobox. We don't need sources for the fact that they are Christian. — ^FatalError 20:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, IronCrow, I think you misunderstand what they're trying to say. They aren't denying that Underoath is Christian, because that's undeniable; they're saying that it's wrong to put "Christian metalcore" in the infobox, as Christianity has little to do with their music. — ^FatalError 20:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

They didn't jsut take it out of the inforbox, they removed a complete set ouf sources and took it out of the introduction. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 20:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, okay. Well it's fine now, please don't change it unless you have a specific reason to. — ^FatalError 20:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Being in the lead is the worst place it could possibly be. 'Christian band' does not mean that their genre is Christian, it is their religion. When you put it in the lead like that it appears their genre is 'Christian metalcore' not metalcore. It even redirects to Christian metal which is completely different, there is a pretty big difference in metal and metalcore. I think something about their Christianity should be in the article, just not in the lead because it is very misleading. I have ran into Ironcrow before, and saw where he has edit warred many times trying to label bands with Christian members, asking me to just use common sense because his sources only said they were Christians. Landon1980 (talk) 21:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

See my comment on the As I Lay Dying talk page. — ^FatalError 22:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's discuss this further on my talk page, so we don't have to jump from article to article. — ^FatalError 03:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Well we could call them Christian Metalcore rather than Christian metalcore the first means a metalcore band where all the members are christian, while the second means a band who plays the christian metalcore music genre

posted by loveyourfaith Loveyourfaith (talk) 15:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Woman High Pitch Screams not in Album Personnel Appearances

That Russian woman in Cries of the Past isn't in Album Personnel Appearances. Put her back in I don't remember her name and I am not going to look it up so someone fix that. Because she was in at least 2 songs on COTP.

What are you talking about? — ^FatalError 22:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring to Alena Cason? I saw her under the former members section awhile ago, but I'm not too sure she appeared on any recordings.--124.181.230.37 (talk) 14:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes her and if she didn't do the high-screams in COTP then who did? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamaha519vx (talk • contribs) 22:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Are you talking about the screaming vocals? Cause both the screaming and growls were done by Dallas Taylor.Emo777 (talk) 04:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

No, wtf you must have not listened Cries of the Past dumbass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.85.210.23 (talk) 00:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

User:69.85.210.23, please refrain from such comments. They violate wikipedia policy of civility (WP:civil). Thanks. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 00:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Shut the fuck up. Don't tell me what to do, or how to do it.

I suggest you look over WP:CIVIL if you plan on continuing editing. Users that are repetitively uncivil to fellow editors can, are, and will be blocked from editing. Not a threat, so don't see it as one. I'm just letting you know. Landon1980 (talk) 19:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I have listioned to cries of the past, it's my favorite album. I misread and thought it meant the vocals themselves, not the shrieks at the start of the song. Still, you should refrain from immature comments, it happens.Emo777 (talk) 06:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Immature don't tell me I am immature look at your username. Just to see the word Emo in it means your quite odd, anyways yes the shrieks aren't done by Dallas and you see where I am coming from.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamaha519vx (talk • contribs) 20:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, two things, 1st, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the person who called me a dumba-- and who told Littlealien182 to shut the f--- up. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. And 2nd, I am odd, I like being odd, because if I was normal I would be boring like 90% of the other people on earth. So there.Emo777 (talk) 07:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Is this reference accpetable? http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=98854 Lorenwade (talk) 03:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Genre

I still don't understand why Christian was taken out...Not only is it supported by the Christian Music wikiproject, but also by the Christian Metal wikiproject. That HAS to tell you something right there.elisa^talk. 18:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Read the discussion and you will understand why. You don't put the religion in the lead beside of the genre, that simple. Landon1980 (talk) 19:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

You making the header 'genre' is proof you didn't read the discussion. No one on either side has claimed Christian has anything to do with their genre, we all agree it is their religion and that their genre is simply metalcore. Landon1980 (talk) 19:18, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

so does anybody care about what the religion is or is it all about the stupid genre. I mean come on guys you should read what you say because you sound rediculuose arguing about what there genre is instead of the main point. which is indeed"what is there religion?". if i were all of you id worry about eternal sruggles instead of these petty minute to minute struggles:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.176.156 (talk) 01:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I think there Genre should be whatever the band labels themself as.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamaha519vx (talk • contribs) 22:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Spencer's part in band

I noticed it only says Spencer does screaming vocals, but on several tracks from Define The Great Line he sings, and he sings some in concert. Should we put him down for some singing vocals also, or wait till Lost In The Sound...comes out? -Sector311 (talk) 19:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm fine with whatever, but maybe we should wait and see what the new album is like. But yet, I get were your coming from.Emo777 (talk) 07:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm inclined to say that Spencer does both screaming vocals and traditional vocals (singing), but, like Emo777, I think we should wait until the new album comes out. As of now, we can make a legitimate case for singing vocals, but the issue may be more clear-cut after the release of their next album. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 13:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

That's fine if we wait for the album. Maybe if he doesn't sing on LITSOS, we can put him down as singing vocals(past album) or something like that. -Sector311 (talk) 15:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Should I?

Should I change everything for this band that says christian metalcore and take out the christian? isnt tht what has been said to do? so itll just say metalcore, i mean we already note the band are christians. loveyourfaithLoveyourfaith (talk) 13:10, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think you can go ahead and remove Christian metalcore from the article. Let me know if you need any help. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 18:57, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Keep it metalcore. We know they're Christians. "Christian metalcore" and metalcore sound the same musically. The only difference is lyrics and message, which does not define genre. Lorenwade (talk) 21:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Well its like that with any genre of music. christian and secular can sound the same, see relient k and blink 182, but its just the lyrics and message.. until relient k added more mature sincere vocals and piano then it sounds christian

anyway I can understand why they deleted all the singles topics - less genre arguing

loveyourfaithLoveyourfaith (talk) 14:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree --it's the lyrics and the message that can determine whether a band should be considered christian or secular. But that is precisely the reason why I think Underoath is simply plain metalcore. There music is not characterized by christian lyrics and messages. They don't sing about God in every song (or even a majority of their songs), in the same way that bands likes MercyMe and DC talk do. If we are to adhere to your criteria, we would have to consider bands like U2 and Creed to be "Christian music." — ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 19:10, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Tell Me Something...

Okay, since I have started this account I have been insulted, yelled at, and had rude comments made torwards me because they didn't like what I put down on a page even though I HAD VALID sources. You people have taught me one thing, and I don't mean any offense to any of you, but most of you (though not all) have twisted this websites rules around, and have made up stupid reasons as to why you're right, well i'm done. But I have one last question, then I promise i'll leave you alone, just answer me this one last thing and I'm done. Why is it that bands like Demon Hunter and War of Ages can have the christain Metal and Christain metalcore labels, while bands like Underoath and As I Lay Dying can't? Tell me that and i'll leave you alone.Emo777 (talk) 09:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Because we're not going to go around to every band with "Chrisitan metalcore" and change it. At least I'm not; I don't have the time nor the want to do that. I've never even heard of War of Ages. Also, I don't recall anyone every yelling at you... Well, bye I guess. — ^FatalError 19:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

If you read the last discussion about the "genre war," you will find that a number of the editors of this page decided that Underoath, though comprised of Christian members, is not a christian metalcore band. There is nothing about the vast majority of their music that would lead one to classify them as "Christian." That is the reason why they are plain metalcore. If this reasoning applies to the bands that you mentioned, I suggest removing "Christian" from their genre section as well. Also, if people are being rude to you, I would suggest reporting them to an administrator --after adequate warning, of course-- or finding a mediator. And saying that someone has "stupid reasons" for being right isn't exactly polite. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 21:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Could you provide some diffs of the type of treatment you are referring to? You seem to just be here to cause drama, your user page speaks for that. No one ever said they were going to remove Christian from bands that were in the Christian genre. I don't know if you are expecting other editors to beg you to stay or what. You never really contributed anyways, so your threats are sort of empty. Honestly though, if you can't handle for others to disagree with you, and consider nearly everything a personal attack this isn't the place for you anyways. Landon1980 (talk) 21:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that's not a real answer, but thanks. But no, I don't expect people to beg me to stay, why would I expect that? And yes I have contributed, say what you want about me but don't say that, I worked hard on several pages, but people didn't like it and said that my sources didn't matter, and I had several, and I made sure they were all valid. But it's not just this page, it's the whole website, everywhere on it's got some stupid fight on it, i'm sick of it. But this whole deciding weather or not a band is a Christian band or not, that's just when it gets foolish, i'm sorry but a band doesn't have to have every song directly from the bible to be Christain. But yeah, and i'm sorry for the comments I made the other night, i've had a... not that you guys care. And I didn't sign up just to cause drama, this page just gives me a massive headache. But as agreed i'll leave you alone... for now, I think i'll take a break from edits for awhile, i've got things to do anyway. Until next time. Emo777 (talk) 08:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, i'm a really fast thinker and i've decided to say sorry for all my rudeness here recently, i've been going through some internal conflicts so yeah, i'll do better. I'll have a formal sorry on my talk page so yeah. Oh, and I kinda get were your all coming from on the Christain Metalcore/Metalcore thing, so yeah, sorry.Emo777 (talk) 13:57, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Glad to see you back :) Landon1980 (talk) 16:24, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank-you Emo777 (talk) 08:13, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Albums?

Should something be done about the genre for they're albums? I know the 1st to albums (Act of Depression and Cries of the Past) were Deathcore. But the new albums all had different genres. I don't know if anyone one changed them or not, I tried to fix They're Only Chasing Safety but someone keeps changing it back to screamo and taking out metalcore. So do we do something or not? I'll leave it up to you guys, i've already tried and people keep changing it on me, thanks. Emo777 (talk) 09:55, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you that it should be metalcore. If they revert it again report them here. We should have a proper concensus about the genre of each and every album (except the latest one since it's not out yet). – Jerry^teps 10:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it should be consistent with everything else, so keep it as metalcore. — ^FatalError 19:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It says metalcore right now. I wouldn't worry too much about the editor you are referring to (i.e. the one that reverted your metalcore edit). He/she has been warned for making unreferenced genre changes in the past and has since refrained from making these types of edits. If it happens again, then --as Jerry suggested-- report it to an administrator. Good to see you back. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 21:48, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Underoath/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I'm currently reading through this article and will give a review of it soon. Thanks, Jamie^☆S93 21:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Review

• Y Done: Dashes – the section titles need to use endashes (without spacing) to separate years, such as "They're Only Chasing Safety (2004–2005)". Verify that this is consistent in the members section, as well as the record label years in the infobox.

Is it alright if I use & ndash;? (no space) – Jerry^teps 23:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that should be fine. Jamie^☆S93 14:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done: The lead is a decent summary of the article, but needs to be at least two paragraphs per WP:LEAD, so I'd suggest that it be both expanded and some of the info split into a couple of paragraphs for it to look nice.
• Y Done: Could you add a caption, such as who is who, for the infobox image? Also, I'd like to see who is in the second picture specified, too.
• Y Done: "Though the change in style caused some long-time fans of the band to criticize the album, The Changing of Times went on to outsell both of their earlier releases combined" in the second section is unreferenced with a {{fact}} tag.
• Y Done: Chart positions like "#1" and "#3" are now being spelled out as "number one" - this should be done for all numbers under ten (except for the wikitable...leave that alone).
• Check the consistency with linking to month/days, as well as full three-part dates (see the 2008-present section). Full dates should be linked to, and preferably, it'd be best to continue and link all mm/dd dates ("July 24") too. That last bit is generally optional, but just be sure to stay consistent.
• The section for Define the Line is kind of big; this should probably be pared down, or split into another section, such as "2007".
• Y Done; I think: The prose should be checked throughout this article. I've already altered some of it, but still some of the wording needs improvement. For example: "They're Only Chasing Safety was released on June 15, 2004 and proved to be a more commercial success for the band..." and: "a side project with Seattle producer Aaron Sprinkle under the name of The Almost; The Almost subsequently was signed...", which is redundant with the term "The Almost". Most are little issues, but a few are literal grammar problems. I can point out more specific instances and try to help if you want.

• Also, "It is the second album in Tooth & Nail history to reach that distinction (The first being Slowly Going the Way of the Buffalo by MxPx in 2000)." – sentence structure and capitalization of "The" with the parentheses needs to be changed.

Tell me if it's ok now. – Jerry^teps 04:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, looks good now. Jamie^☆S93 16:11, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done: Avoid using season terms such as "spring", because of hemisphere differences per WP:SEASON.
• Y Done: Their producer is referred to as both "James Paul Wisner" and "James Wisner". This should be consistent.

Changed James Wisner to James Paul Wisner. – Jerry^teps 00:34, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done: "...and a DVD with over two hours worth of the band touring in support of the album" should be clarified and reworded - the band on tour, right? Also, that fact should be referenced.

I reworded it, let me know if it makes any more sense. I am currently looking for a reference about the DVD. – Jerry^teps 00:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

• The wikilinking is decent, but looks a bit lacking: link to some of the fairly relevant topics/terms, if applicable, to spruce up the text.
• Y Done: A few times in the Define the Great Line section, there are "rumors" mentioned that don't always appear notable enough to mention, or should at least be presented in a different way.
• "During the 2007 fall tour, Chamberlain confirmed various times that the band will have a new record out in the summer of 2008" was a little confusing.

I also reworded this. Let me know if it makes more sense, if it doesn't i'll try to change the entire sentence. – Jerry^teps 00:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done; I think: Album titles should always be italicized, and song titles in "quotes". This is generally good, but there are one or two errors in this article; do a quick check-through for that.

I only found 2 instances of songs having only single quotes (') instead of double quotes (") is that what you were talking about because I went through the article and could not see any not formatted... Could you point out where you saw these? – Jerry^teps 00:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good, I think it's all fixed now. I was especially thinking of one instance in the last history section near the bottom where their latest album wasn't italicized, but I fixed that just now, along with some prose rewording. Jamie^☆S93 02:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Referencing

Just wanted to mention that I noticed there are a few more unsourced facts, and it mainly looks like the "Lost in the Sound of Separation" and "Define the Great Line" sections. Some facts are easy to source (like release dates), others may not be quite so – I'll add some {fact} tags to statements that need to be backed up, however, to get that issue out of the way. Sorry for not giving prior notice of this, but there are a couple of issues with refs here, too:

• Y Done: Ref #32 and #42 aren't formatted with a {{cite web}} template. There might be others, but those are two that I saw.
• Magazine/newspapers (websites for something of a larger publication or work) should be in italics with the references (under the |work= parameter of the cite template), while online-only websites should simply be in the "publisher" parameter. Check all the refs for this.
• Refs 35, 36, 30 are first-party sources, and need to be replaced. #10 is a first-party ref as well, and should get replaced, too.

Check these items off the list, and let me know when you're done or have any questions. I'm watching this page, though, so I should be able to catch any questions or comments that are left here. Thanks, Jamie^☆S93 22:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Note: As this article has been on hold for 2 weeks, I'm considering the review abandoned. Normally this would be an automatic GA failure and you'd have to renominate the page. Fortunately for you, however, the only standing complaint against it seems to be a couple of first-party references, which is not intrinsically wrong so long as they are used solely for information about the subject itself. So, since I see nothing controversial claimed by those refs, I'm deeming them valid uses of first party sources and passing the page. Good work. --erachima talk 00:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. I just haven't found time recently to finish the GA and was hoping others would help it. I'll try to find other references when I have the time. – Jerry^teps 06:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Problem with IPs changing the genre

There is a serious problem with IPs changing the genre. I suggest we should put the info box into a page such as Underoath/Info and semi-protect it, then transclude the page into the main article. Because it seems people are not listening to the warning in the genre section. Please provide your input on this idea because I don't want to have to get this page semi-protected again. – Jerry^teps 02:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

That's a great idea. If it works, go for it. Nice work on the GAN so far, by the way.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 09:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I have moved it to Template:Underoath/Info and i've requested that it was protected. – Jerry^teps 12:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

It was rejected even though it was vandalised 6 times yesterday. – Jerry^teps 22:47, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, that's a bummer, but maybe most of the IP's can't find /navigate to the template link now though, let's see. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 08:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it happened again earlier today. And there was another instance of vandalism. I think all of the media exposure surrounding the release of Underoath's new album is prompting most of these edits. I, too, think that this page should be protected. At the very least, until the new album comes out. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 03:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

One more instance of vandalism. I'm going to re-request page protection. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 04:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

And one more. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 04:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, we can all rest for a while. The page protection request was successful. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 08:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Christain Metalcore

Hey, Christain Metalcore is back in the infobox, I haven't been able to get online for the past week now so yeah, could someone fill me in please? I thought it was taken out along time ago. What happened? Emo777 (talk) 17:29, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Just unreveret vandalism. I had an idea to make a template and protect it since the infobox was the main target of vandalism but protection was refused and the main article was protected instead. But i've now merged the infobox back in and going to take the vandal to WP:AIV. – Jerry^teps 22:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

So if I see Christain Metalcore in the info box I revert it back to metalcore, right? Emo777 (talk) 07:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Jakisbak (talk) 10:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

A Female Vocalist

Hey, I was just wandering, well I saw an interview on Youtube.com with Dallas Taylor a while back and he said that Old Underoath used to have a Female Vocalist who had an Opera-like voice. I can't remember her name, but he said she was in the band for a short while, but never appeared in an album. So should we add that to the article if I can find the link on youtube? I'm not sure weather to add it or not, if you guys think it's okay let me know and i'll get the link on youtube as a source. Whatever you guys think let me know. Emo777 (talk) 05:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable reference then sure. – Jerry^teps 06:20, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

i found that video here on youtube —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinb904 (talk • contribs) 21:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

They're Only Chasing Safety Genre

Hey, on the "They're Only Chasing Safety" page people have been removing Metalcore and Post-Hardcore and adding either Screamo or Rock to the infobox instead. I put a warning on the talk page and in the infobox but I don't know if it will work or not. From what I can tell most of the changes are coming for random ip addresses. Anyway, I need some help watching the page cause classes have started back and I won't be able to get online as much, it would helpful if some of you guys could help. Thanks in advance. Emo777 (talk) 05:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

grant was not the bassist on "the changing of times"

i am surprised no one caught onto this earlier...

grant was not the bassist for the changing of times, i believe he came in after the recording because he appears in the video for "when the sun sleeps"

the bassist for the album was William Edwin Nottke

i am taking this right from the booklet.

Brandoncscott (talk) 06:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you can reference it, then put it in. – Jerry^teps 06:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Chris Ponsler??????

Who the heck is that? I've been listening since Act of depression and have never heard of him. Maybe I'm not a real fan?

Looks like a vandal to me... (Msonnemann (talk) 19:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC))

He's in the Member table and in the table up top. (Msonnemann (talk) 19:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC))

Chris Ponsler??????

Who the heck is that? I've been listening since Act of depression and have never heard of him. Maybe I'm not a real fan?

Looks like a vandal to me... (Msonnemann (talk) 19:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC))

No they are a vandal and I have reverted them multiple times before. If they continue report them to WP:AIV after a considerable amount of warnings. – Jerry^teps 11:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Need help reporting a User/IP

Okay, I need a little help. As I stated in a section above, The page for "They're Only Chasing Safety" has been vandalized numerous times. Someone keeps chaing the genre from Metalcore/Post-hardcore to Screamo. I've changed the genre back to Metalcore/Post-hardcore and put a warning on the talk page and in the infobox, but User: 220.238.235.47 keeps changing it back to Screamo. I'm still fairly new because I have a slow connection and I don't really know how to report someone to an adminstrater. So yeah, I was going to ask User: Fatal Error for help, but according to his page he doesn't do band page articals anymore. So yeah, could someone please help me, i'm at lost here. Thanks in advance. Emo777 (talk) 06:19, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Give them sufficient warnings and if they continue report them at WP:AIV. – Jerry^teps 01:16, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

And by warnings I mean on their talk page (see WP:WARN). It seems they've stopped so hopefully you wont need to report them to WP:AIV. – Jerry^teps 01:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I just changed the genre back to Metalcore/Post-Hardcore. It seems the vandals haven't stopped, yet. I'm new here so I haven't reported them or anything, the user is 220.238.235.47 DAYKS11 (talk) 03:39, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I gave them a warning on their talk page, if they do it again go ahead and report them, turns out that they've been messing with all of the Underoath pages, someone done fixed The Changing of Times, and I took care of Act of Depression and Cries of the Past. So go ahead and report them if they do it again. Emo777 (talk) 07:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Luke Morton

Would anyone be opposed to removing Luke Morton from the album personnel table, since he left the band before they recorded their first album. If nobody objects, I'm going to remove him from the table. ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 17:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't object, a mention in the article is fine enough. That's like mentioning all the former members in an album and write beside them (was not in this album). – Jerry^teps 01:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, if the change is uncontroversial then go ahead, be bold and change it. If there are too many objections to the change it is easily reverted. – Jerry^teps 01:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good! I'll go ahead and remove it. — ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 22:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

?????????????

Whats the difference between melodic death metal and deathcore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakeellsonator (talk • contribs) 12:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

See Melodic death metal and deathcore. – Jerry^teps 02:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Lost in the Sound of Separation Qualifies as Mathcore?

Given their propensity towards 5/4 and 7/4 measures on this latest album, shouldn't mathcore be added to their genres? 72.160.137.185 (talk) 02:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so, there's more than just measures that defines mathcore and metalcore. Underoath fits metalcore. Emo777 (talk) 01:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Screamo They Are

I've heard that people keep adding "screamo" to the genre section and people revert it, claiming Underoath "isnt screamo". All Music Guide is basically the authority on genre assignments and music in general, and they list Underoath as screamo here and here. Why do some of you insist they aren't screamo, these albums are prime examples of the genre. Anyway, Cheers. -- Noj r (talk) 08:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

All Music Guide is not completely reliable and definitely not "the" authority on genre. And obviously you listen to a small spectrum of genres as Underoath are definitely not screamo. – Jerry^teps 09:44, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Jerry. Though Underoath may have some screamo elements, they are assuredly not a screamo band. All music guide tends to be all-inclusive when they list their genres and styles (i.e. they list all genres and styles that are applicable to a band). However, on Wikipedia, when considering the genre field, one should strive for two things: (1) to only list genres that contain some sort of "descriptive value" of the band's musical style and, at the same time, (2) to only list genres that are representative of a vast majority of the band's music. The first property is an exclusion criterion (i.e. this is why general genres like "rock" are not listed --they have very little "descriptive value" when applied to bands like Underoath). The second property is an inclusion criteria and serves to insure that genres that merely describe individual albums, songs, or underlying styles and themes are not listed (i.e. this is why genres like "emo", "screamo", and other similar genres are not listed for Underoath). — ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 00:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

"All Music Guide is basically the authority on genre assignments and music in general" Are you being serious? Please tell me you are joking. Allmusic is notoriously unreliable and most certainly not "the authority" regarding genres. Quite the opposite actually; I take it you are new to editing music related articles. Landon1980 (talk) 00:57, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Landon as well. All music should be taken with a grain of salt. — ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² (_talk\^contribs) 01:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Underoath (Dallas Taylor)= Deathcore; Underoath(Spencer Chaimberlain)= Metalcore; I think i've made my case:) Emo777 (talk) 06:43, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I Think Underoath got The Screamo Tag from their first album with spencer which was They're Only Chasing Safety. Which for sure had the screamo elements and sounds. The High pitch screams then clean vocals and many guitar riffs. Only Define The Great Line came alot they changed. Lower screams, more heavy instrumentals which put them back on the map for Metalcore. Then Lost In The Sound of Seperation had growls and was heavy the DTGL. So only one album was screamo. Underoath is a Metalcore band for sure since the past two albums!User:Skateremorocker —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC).

Where can you find Cries from the Past, and Acts of Desperation.

Where can you find Cries from the Past, and Acts of Desperation. Please Post it on here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.34.105 (talk) 03:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, there were only 1000 copies of AoD and 2000 copies of CotP but you may be lucky to find one on ebay or amazon, if you want to hear a preview of them i'll upload a sample for the article later this afternoon. – Jerry^teps 22:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Emo

How come when I looked at a list of emo bands I saw underoath on it. how are they metal they're metalcore. I understand if Aaron is in the emo band the almost but that doesn't make them emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakeellsonator (talk • contribs) 23:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

They are not emo, I have removed them from the list. – Jerry^teps 00:52, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, i've noticed you don't sign your edits, on talk pages (only) please type ~~~~ at the end of every edit. – Jerry^teps 00:55, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

How the hell can the almost be an emo band? answer me that. iCheets (talk) 05:11, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

This may answer your question. WP:RS --King Öomie 16:17, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Why was my sourced information removed?

I find it especially disheartening that one of the things came from a source that was already used on this page. You can't pick and choose what information on the Underoath allmusic page you want to believe and what part you don't want to believe, it's either a reliable source that can be used or it's not.Hoponpop69 (talk) 17:28, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd remove anything that came from allmusic unless I could find another source for it, especially when dealing with metal/metalcore. Landon1980 (talk) 23:44, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, allmusic seems incredibly inconsistent on genres, but we should list all of the genres they list for this band in the infobox or have no allmusic sources at all. Is there a consensus to not use allmusic here?

I also had another source that wasn't from allmusic, what was wrong with that>Hoponpop69 (talk) 14:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay so if no one objects I will remove the allmusic sources.Hoponpop69 (talk) 02:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Christian metal

Here is the source for Christian Metal [1] can anyone find a reason why this source shouldn't be considered valid?Hoponpop69 (talk) 03:05, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Hoponpop, why do you always go around complaining about things like this? We have discussed this to death on this talk page, and consensus is to simply put metalcore. Infoboxes are for the most general things about the band. Christian is just this band's religion, and religion does not belong in the infobox. Even the source you want to use mentions them being successful in the secular mainstream. We had a very thorough discussion about this and consensus is to simply put metalcore. Landon1980 (talk) 05:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Is he really still arguing for this? Haven't we- discussed this like a million times before, in multiple christian bands articles? Let me tell you, is a lost cause. And if you want to add any genre to an infobox, please don't capitalize. Music genres are not proper nouns. --Kmaster (talk) 06:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sick of discussing it, and I'm tired of these POV pushers trying to shove the band's religion down our throats. Undernoath does not fit the definition of Christian rock, the Christian tag in this case is referring to their religion. The infobox is for the most general things about the band, and is for the reader to get a quick, at a glance look at a summary of facts about the band. I'm not discussing this again, so everyone can count me out if a new discussion/consensus were to emerge. I'm at the point that I just don't give a fuck anymore. Hoponpop has a long history of trolling, personal attacks, edit warring, socking, etc., so if he edits against consensus regarding this again just report him and he'll receive his 9th or 10th block. Landon1980 (talk) 11:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

If the source meets Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard why should it not be included?Hoponpop69 (talk) 17:38, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Christian metal is a movement, not a genre. Jerry teps (talk) 04:45, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

It's both, actually. Read the article. They state they are a Christian music group, but that doesn't mean that they play to just Christians. 74.5.110.177 (talk) 10:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Hoponpop69 Underoath is one of those bands that Have christian memebers but don't want to be consider a christian band . Just leave it at that and respect the bands wishs. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Skateremorocker (talk) 22:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Should I consider the food made by a christian chef "christian food"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.227.92 (talk) 21:03, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Food isn't a message. I don't care what label they are truely, but they do consider themselves a Christian band. They've stated it and it's even in the article. As for it being in the infobox, I don't think it's really needed as "Christian metal" is a genre that isn't too specific. 74.5.110.177 (talk) 10:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Rey Anasco

Who is that, I've never heard of him but the "Former Members" section says he played bass when they released Act of Depression in 1998. I never heard of him, is this real or what? I just want to make sure before I remove it. Thanks in advance. Emo777 (talk) 03:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably not, a Google search of him shows nothing except Facebook pages. — ^FatalError 04:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

They're multigenre

Underoath is screamo & hardcore. Both genres are on their profile on jesusfreakhideout.com. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielaustinhall12 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

This topic has already been beaten to death. They are not screamo or hardcore; just because one website (a non-notable one at that) thinks they are doesn't make it so. — ^FatalError 06:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Samm Shufler

Under the Album personnel appearances, it lists Samm Shuffler as the Lead Guitarist for The Cries of the Past. Does anyone have any citation for this? --LCB65 (talk) 03:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Not anything reliable enough to put into the article, but here are a few links: [2] [3] [4]

You could also try a Google search and see for yourself. I don't know what to make of it, so do what you will. — ^FatalError 16:57, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I just went ahead and took it out. --LCB65 (talk) 04:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Genre:Deathcore

I see this page seems to get a lot of WP:GENRE WARRIORs. So, you have deathcore (early) in the infobox, with a cite to "thetabworld.com" for "melodic death metal" in the style/influences section. Can someone explain why thetabworld.com stands up as a reliable source, before I nuke this? I've got Allmusic calling them "Christian metalcore" (not a genre in and of tself, but suffices for "metalcore") and I've got MusicMight giving me the absurdly broad selection of "Christian metal, Christian rock, emocore, hardcore, metal, metalcore". That's not terribly helpful, although MusicMight certainly is a canonical reliable source (with their material commercially published by a third-party source, in this case Cherry Red. Side-note: why does nobody ever read WP:RS when discussing genre?). Google News gives me squat for "underoath +deathcore" (and obviously neither does News or Scholar). If a source that is not thetabworld.com is not rpovided, this material will be removed (or, of course, if the site is demonstrably an RS, i.e. commercially published in print form somewhere). Reinstate when this is sorted. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

A reliable source calling them a Christian musical group. Hmmm. POV pushing, they say? ( I kid with you guys, sheesh) Anyways, I'm not going to put much of a comment on here, but I do believe metalcore is most appropriate. However, their classifcation as deathcore is probably a reference to older albums. Their new stuff doesn't particularly have the sound, but that's really only an opinion so we can't go by that. About MusicMight: Everything there is broad. And I am not getting a working link, either. 74.5.110.177 (talk) 10:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to fuel these arguments but deathcore definitely doesn't fit the early recordings. There's no ultra heavy breakdowns, Suffocation-lite parts. In my opinion it's metalcore, late 90's metalcore with a bit more old school death metal influence, there's no way it is anything like the popular deathcore bands. Diabolical (talk)

They arent just metalcore.

Underøath is not only metalcore, they are Post-hardcore too. --I eat cabbage (talk) 19:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Source? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:19, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with "I eat cabbage", here is a good source: Allmusic (JoaquimMetalhead (talk) 14:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

Yep, Allmusic is a perfectly reliable source; I fixed your cite for you. You do realise that source also describes them as screamo; if post-hardcore is added on the basis of that source, screamo should probably be as well. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and my source is: the dutch version....--I eat cabbage (talk) 18:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Screamo doesn't really fit, post-hardcore basically covers what the mainstream press definition of screamo is, i.e. melodic vocals and screaming. Screamo is really chaotic music, mainly all screams, with some spoken parts and maybe some melodic vocals but in now way are they anything like the harmonious nature of Underoath. Diabolical (talk)

You also need to take into account that alot of people use the term screamo any music that screams, not as an actual genre of music. Emo777 (talk) 09:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

That may be so, but your description of "screamo" is pure original research; all that matters is what the sources say. If they say "screamo" or "post-hardcore" and those sources are included, that is perfectly reasonable. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Wikipedia is not concerned with being "Correct". The purpose of Wikipedia is to report what other, RELIABLE, sources have to say. If you can't find a source for post-hard-black-emo-scream-metal, don't add it.

"BUT I THINK THEY SOUND LIKE-" Doesn't matter. About half the people in this ongoing debate don't have legs to stand on when held up to the scrutiny of the actual rules here. If I've yet to make myself clear, please read Wikipedia's policy on Original Research. --King ♣ Talk 02:58, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and Cabbage, Wiki articles aren't considered Reliable Sources for other articles, unless the information you're talking about is actually CITED on the first page. --King ♣ Talk 03:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

MusicMight

This site is a reliable source? (JoaquimMetalhead (talk) 21:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC))

Com on! Its wikipedia. --77.249.7.65 (talk) 08:06, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

777 DVD

Shouldn't their "777" DvD be added to the "Live" section? Emo777 (talk) 15:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the Live section is a little vague, I assume it's under Studio Albums, so that would mean it's for live albums, but i'm sure it wouldn't hurt to just add it in. Be bold and add anything you think should be added (unless people have discussed it previously, objecting to the change), it can be easily reverted or discussed further here. Jerry teps (talk) 08:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

About growled vocals

Corey Steger did the low growls on AOD/COTP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul 4God (talk • contribs) 21:19, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

What the hell is AOD/COPT??? • GunMetal Angel 21:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

ah.. you`re good..i think you are a really big underoath fan. have you ever heard about they`re first two albums called "Act of Depression" and "Cries of the Past"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul 4God (talk • contribs) 21:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me for not understanding a poor unnecessary abbreviation. • GunMetal Angel 21:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

(@P4G, to clarify) This isn't a general forum for Underoath discussion, and it isn't the comments section at some fanzine. You can go ahead and drop the "elitist superfan" persona, and the acronyms. --King Öomie 21:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

yeah.. but on the article it appears on "Album personnel appearances" that dallas taylor did "growled vocals" and after Corey Steger leaved, in The Changing of Times there are no growled/low vocals. watch an older live concert and you`ll see what i`m talking about.. whatever... --Paul 4God (talk) 07:20, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Then find a source and change it. --King Öomie 13:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Archive

Propose adding this page to MiszaBot's rounds. We've got about 15 threads here that haven't been touched in 6+ months. --King Öomie 16:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm archiving this right now. -- GunMetal Angel 20:33, 15 September 2009 (UTC)