Talk:Taumatawhakatangi­hangakoauauotamatea­turipukakapikimaunga­horonukupokaiwhen­uakitanatahu/Archive 1

Archive 1

Variants

Since this is a "longest place name" name, shouldnt we use the longer name as the article title? Pizza Puzzle

• There are 3 different versions of the name. Earliest internet documented usage appears to be by Peter Cape, in the shorter form. (And the shorter name is still very long!) The other two versions are redirected to the shorter form. All three names appear at the #1 position of a google search, and why is someone going to type that name into a search engine anyway? If someone knows about the name, they will probably be searching for the definitive article using that name. I would have consider that moving would be a good idea if only the longest version was used, but when I was researching the article I found the page name given to the article predominated in Google Searches. There is also some dispute about the contrivance of the longer names anyway. Besides, I have not yet managed to lay my hands on a map, official NZ Geographic Board place name list, or similar authenticated documents to confirm which spelling is used officially. I found this article at the shorter name and felt, for technical reasons, that moving it to the longer name may be unwise at this time. --- kiwiinapanic 03:12 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Frankly I'm just glad now I went for the wide monitor. ;) - Hephaestos 03:17 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Encarta world atlas 2001 gives the name as "Taumatawhakatangihangakoauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanataha", which is different to all the others on the page and only turns up one result in Google! porge 22:24, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC) [relevant part changed to bold by contributor of next comment]

• That's an easy one. Encarta was clearly wrong in at least one respect: the flute is "koauau" (koau is a cormorant). Robin Patterson 00:40, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I went and dug up my Reed Dictionary of Māori place names, which has the entry as follows:

"Taumatawhakatangihangakōauauotamateapōkaiwhenuakitanatahu": The brow of the hill where [...] Another form, broken into its component parts, is "Te Taumata-okiokinga-whakatangihanga-o-te-kōauau-a-Tamatea-pōkai-whenua".

This one matches the page name (albeit macronised). porge 09:14, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

The official name is the article title of Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu. See LINZ http://www.linz.govt.nz/rcs/linz/pub/web/root/core/placenames/index.jsp Nurg 09:14, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've been around asking Kaumatua (Maori elders) on what the "proper" name is and the most extensive version i got was; Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateahaumaitawhitiurehaerepukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu. (102 letters) I also found this version in a song Tarzipan 02:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Get a citation of this, then we could do a move of Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu to Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateahaumaitawhitiurehaerepukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu and ensure it stays the longest single word wikipedia article. Nagelfar 04:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• If you need a citation that the article name should be the longer form then look at the photo attached to the entry. It shows the longer form:

"Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotameteaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenakitanatahu", not the shorter form currently used as the title, listed with Land Information New Zealand. I think the article should be searchable using both spellings. Searching with part of the name currently does not bring up the article in the results. James.faction (talk) 04:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there a redirection from the longer name to here? Androo123 (talk) 21:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes - you can check that by clicking on the 'What links here'. Kahuroa (talk) 05:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Longer form of Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu

Is it Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotameteaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenakitanatahu (in the first section) OR Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuaakitanatahu (in the section Meaning)????? I don`t know how to verify this... Could anyone please give reliable source about this????? QQ (talk) 18:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The section itself says the word has been entered into the Guiness Book of Records so it should be easy to verify Kahuroa (talk) 22:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Guinness Book of Records form

The form (Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu) that was purported to come from the Guinness Book of Records, and to have 92 letters, was wrong, and probably has been wrong for a long time. It didn't have 92 letters, but 91. It started with Te- (which is the in Māori - my guess is someone added it to make up the letter count) and was missing a -u- and a -ka-. I have removed the Te- and corrected it to Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaurehaeaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu which has 92 letters - but I don't have a Guiness Book of records to verify it against. Can someone help here? Kahuroa (talk) 05:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

 Done. I checked several years (1970's - 2000's) of Guinness books and they all say 85 letters. They do mention a 57 letter official name -- Al™ 09:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Awesome, cheers. Kahuroa (talk) 06:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Longest...

Is this the Wikipedia article with the longest title? That would be something for the record books :) Greatgavini 21:20, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

How about this one--Paul 14:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

This article is a single word! -- Cameron Dewe 09:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

IPA

Can someone do an IPA transcription to illustrate the proper pronunciation? gz³³ (talk) 12:37, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

audio

Could someone record the pronounciation and place it in the commons? That would be very nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurkummer (talk • contribs)

Well lets see, someone could record the spoken sound and place a link here, for those visually challenged amongst us to be able to share this space by using their ears. You know, sound, audio, air vibrations, as opposed to the letters / characters / words / symbols you can see here if youre not blind. You must take the trouble to record it with an acceptable pronunciation though, otherwiwse it will end up here like this one:

Listen to this page (info/dl)

noicon

Spoken Wikipedia

This audio file was created from a revision dated 2007-5-14, and does not reflect subsequent edits to the page. (Audio help)

More spoken pages

You could smile at the inacuracies of translations by people and machines that have little understanding of the true nature of what is actually attempted to be executed, perhaps even offer some assistance. It serves to remind us of the rich texture of humanity, imperfect, but striving for improvement at every step.

You could be warned that the file is 7.2Meg and that the traffic challenged wikipedians might not like that either, but for me it just took a few seconds, so I guess its ok. moza 23:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

let me be clear that I am fully for obeying agreed rules for pronunciation, and challenged to bend myself, as those rules change, but I certainly get quite staunch about some basic rules in many languages, and those in my opinion should originate from the culture using the respective language itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mozasaur (talk • contribs) 23:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

For real?

Is this a joke? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.84.70.196 (talk) 14:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

No! Mathmo ^Talk 08:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I wondered the same thing. --Secruss (talk) 00:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me while i laugh as ideals are shattered. --Meomix, August 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.152.112.179 (talk) 14:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I was almost going to report this as pagemove vandalism. Anna Lincoln 10:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Ditto. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 16:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

had a slit penis

is this original or vandalism? I can not find any source for it --helohe (talk) 15:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

There's a source given in the article. Does the link not work for you? It did for me when I checked it a few seconds ago. The translation was added in this edit by a well-respected Wikipedian, who I know to be a fluent speaker of Maori.-gadfium 21:02, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

you are right, the reference works. But the first and last external links given on the wikipage do no longer work. --helohe (talk) 22:17, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

 Done. 75.210.133.197 (talk) 06:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

English?

How can it be 'the longest word in English' when it's a Maori name? I wouldn't try claiming that Llanfairp......whatever it is is the longest word in English, not unless I wanted a lynching from the Welsh, so how can it be that a Maori word is treated as such? It presumably translates as something into English - that is the English name. I think what you mean is 'Longest word written in the Latin/Roman alphabet/script, maybe? 82.32.238.139 23:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any reference to "longest English word" I only see "longest known word", slight difference.

Def. not an English word... the fact that it is translated into English Characters, doesn't mean it is an English Word. In saying that, is something like "Hiawatha" - being an American Indian name, an English word/name? Hmm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jeff.kerr (talk • contribs) 08:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

"English Characters" would probably be something like the Anglo-Saxon futhark, this is latin script. Nagelfar 04:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

 Done. Offending reference to this as an English word removed. ... Kahuroa 19:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

references and citation lacking tags

they seem to be popping up all over the place, destroying the credibility of the wikipedia in one sense. The name of this article is listed on a government web site and is in the official place names list by the Geographic Places Names Board so I dont see the difficulty in having a suitable citation. explain? I see a lot of activity where content is removed because it 'isnt agreed with' but isnt the policy supposed to be remove whatever isnt verifiable? I'm not suggesting that we follow that path either as it would kill perhaps half the content and thats a lot ... but I'm just on my old surgery versus fixing platform again... suggesting nicely that fixing is better than removal. I know its much harder and more time consuming and see the latest excuse is that the original editor is better placed to know where the info came from.. mmm.

• 55,000 NZ Place Names moza 23:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

so anyway I added the spec copied directly from the LINZ page, feel free to format the citation in some official way if there is any and perhaps remove all the un-cited material, which would decimate the article i think, so perhaps dont.moza 23:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

when did this name arise?

I'm a little suspicious of the name -- it sounds like something invented for the tourist industry. I don't doubt it's on the official maps and so forth, but I am curious as to when it first arose? Was it already in use when Europeans arrived? Or was it like those town names in New England -- coined off of quasi-fictional Native American etymologies? 69.17.73.214 (talk) 04:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

No. Before 1800. Yes. No. Look at Māori place names. Wellington = Te Whanga-nui-a-Tara. Taupo = Taupo-nui-a-Tia. Dannevirke = Tāmaki-nui-a-Rua. It was common for places to be named for their associations with ancestors. And Tamatea was a very famous ancestor who did a lot of famous exploits. Kāhuroa (talk) 06:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Bogus, or just bogus?

There is nothing in this article to imply this term had any currency before the Guinness Book of World Records and the modern world's desperate attempts to promote tourism.
When would a Maori a century ago have said this, and why?
Varlaam (talk) 20:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Because there is another hill nearby called The hill of the flute playing by Tamatea — who was blown hither from afar, had a slit penis, grazed his knees climbing mountains, fell on the earth, and encircled the land — to his Mum and the Maoris had to tell the two of them apart? Varlaam (talk) 20:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I have vacationed on the North Island. I was enlisted to participate in a church group's Maori dance display, which was rather fun. That was in 1988.

Back in 2008, Kāhuroa commented as follows:

No. Before 1800. Yes. No. Look at Māori place names. Wellington = Te Whanga-nui-a-Tara. Taupo = Taupo-nui-a-Tia. Dannevirke = Tāmaki-nui-a-Rua. It was common for places to be named for their associations with ancestors. And Tamatea was a very famous ancestor who did a lot of famous exploits. Kāhuroa (talk) 06:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

But these justifications appear to prove the opposite.

These Maori names are of manageable length, and don't incorporate an entire folktale into a place name.

Did this name appear on a survey in 1900?

Varlaam (talk) 20:53, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

According to the New Zealand Gazetteer of Official Geographic Names, this placename has a Statutory Reference from 1941 (it doesn't indicate how long the name was in use before 1941, could be centuries). Guinness World Records was first published in 1955 according to that article. Secondly, it's a hasty generalization, looking at two placenames that aren't long, and erroneously concluding no placenames can be long. XLerate (talk) 23:10, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Given that the runner-up Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch is known to be a name made up in the 19th century, the suspicion is utterly justified. I'm still sceptical. Even if native speakers of Māori have no trouble pronouncing Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu, it's still a mouthful and quite impractical. If you live in the region and talk about the place more than occasionally, and mention it more than once or twice in a conversation, it's inconceivable that you wouldn't shorten it, Māori or not. Common sense is often wrong, but just imagine a case like that in English – there are some very long English placenames after all, and even far shorter ones are shortened by locals, or avoided by way of metonymy (we're not primarily talking about busy urbanites here, BTW!) – you would twist your tongue if you had to say a very long place name several times fast in a conversation, and saying it slowly would be tedious and a waste of time and energy. Speech economy dictates that long place names will be uncommon in actual practice, and extreme long names will be virtually non-existent except as deliberate constructions for amusement rather than regular use. (Or perhaps the hill was rarely ever talked about? I bet the local Māori would still rather say te taumata, "the hill", when the context was sufficiently clear, and leave longer variants of the name – it's also unlikely that in traditional, pre-modern Māori society, it was ever completely fixed, which provides an additional reason for scepticism; in fact, the article does mention a longer variant already itself! – to special occasions, possibly connected with religion and ritual.) In short, I'm not buying it. I'd like to see stronger evidence that the name has always been this long and is completely unartificial, as I class this an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

Quite apart from that, I notice that there are no macrons to see on the name anywhere in the article. It would be an extraordinary coincidence if this name included not a single long vowel. At least pōkai has obviously a long vowel, and kōauau apparently too. The article would also benefit from a proper analysis of the name. Any Māori experts/native speakers around? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

use by Maori speakers

I am curious does anyone know whether the common Maori people use the long version of the word and if they use it, do they read it or have memorized by heart :) . Interesting long word.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 21:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I think most people use the shortened form. A native speaker of Maori will be able to memorise it easily as it is more or less just a series of words strung together as one. People who don't speak Maori (even those with basic Maori language exposure) will not be able to memorise it as easily.203.56.127.1 (talk) 03:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Hyphenation

Why is Taumata-whakatangihanga-koauau-o-Tamatea-haumai-tawhiti-ure-haea-turi-pukaka-piki-maunga-horo-nuku-pokai-whenua-ki-tana-tahu hyphenated? Is that how it's supposed to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.141.38 (talk) 15:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The hyphens aid understanding by non-Māori speakers. They make it possible to look up individual components of the name in a Māori-English dictionary.-gadfium 08:07, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh OK. That's fine. Although I still think you should put the proper name as it is very confusing otherwise. If not... OK.

Map

Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotameteaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenakitanatahu

A map could be added for humorous effect - Gobeirne (talk) 23:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

 Done. I've added a non-humorous location map.-gadfium 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

(moved from article comment) Note: the ref. lists 40.3480 S, 176.5321 E, but the coords in the template appear closer to the summit on Google Maps. The LINZ data is NZGD2000, which is supposed to be very close to WGS84. Is Google Maps off? Neither coordinate shows as right-on in Bing Maps. 165.170.128.65

Downloading the dataset from LINZ, the readme has the following: "Feature positioning The co-ordinate of the named text was digitised at the bottom left hand corner of the text labels on the map, NOT from the position of the geographic feature to which the name refers. Therefore the position varies because of factors such as cartographic licence. This means that for a large geographic feature such as "Auckland" the name will be placed close to the feature but not necessarily at its centre. Large features such as "Waikato River" or "The Main Divide of the Southern Alps" appear in numerous positions. For cartographic reasons the names of coastal towns or islands are often positioned "in the sea" or in circumstances where there are numerous names crowded into a small area the name of some of the features may be displaced to make the map easier to read. These factors are caused by the nature of traditional paper map making methods. The co-ordinates are not a GPS position for the geographic location of the feature." The template coords (-40.346, 176.5402) point to the position in the NZTopoOnline map. XLerate (talk) 22:55, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Height

305m is almost exactly 1000 feet. Is that height correct, or has someone translated "roughly 1000 feet" as "exactly 305m"?

Topographical maps of the area give the height as 305 metres. -- Cameron Dewe 09:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

"Other long-named places"

Does this section belong in this article? Just wondering. – B.hotep •talk• 09:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it does. So I have replaced it with a "See Also" section which links to List of long place names – for a more comprehensive comparison. Revert if you wish. – B.hotep •talk• 14:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Second longest?

"and it is the second-longest place name in the world"

Did someone actually look up Wises New Zealand Guide for this? If this is actually legit, I want to know two things:

One: Why is this stated as the longest by Guinness when it is not? Two: What is the longest place name then? I can't find any place names longer than this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.74.217.61 (talk) 09:43, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

References

Wises Guide does say this (p 188 of the 9th edition), but doesn't say what the longest name is. However, List of long place names#Names with spaces or hyphen does give a very long name in Bangkok. It is possible that Guinness doesn't count that, because the name consists of many words with spaces between them.-gadfium 23:06, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Page move

I object. I think this was a controversial move. The article title itself is part of its notability. It was moved with the rationale "name too long to find" but Wikipedia, Google, and Bing searches all find it. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi, you may be right, but when i type the name in google search it showed as Untitled in the first search link. So, users do not know unless they see the url. If i'm wrong please comment.Vin09 (talk) 09:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

@Vin09:I was just coming to the talk page to suggest a page move to Taumata because it comes up with Untitled in a search result. I have proposed a move below. Ollieinc (talk) 08:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 02 July 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 12:30, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

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Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu → Taumata – A search for, say, longest name, lists this page as Untitled (see longest name), probably due to Google rejecting the excessively long name. If the page was moved to Taumata, Google would be able to display it. Ollieinc (talk) 08:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Comment So that's something Google should look into then and not Wikipedia? -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 16:06, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia should, per MOS:ACCESS Ollieinc (talk) 06:17, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

• Support. Even if we put aside access issues, this is probably the WP:COMMONNAME anyway, isn't it? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
• Support as proposer Ollieinc (talk) 00:40, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
• Comment We should change article names as per policy, and the reason put up doesn't fall into that category. To align this with its common name is more relevant. Schwede66 17:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. The full name is one most commonly used, except in casual conversation by people who live nearby, just as they say Waipuk for Waipukurau. Nurg (talk) 11:15, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
• Moderate oppose – The notability of the place seems to stem largely from its lengthy name. The Guinness Book of World Records did not include the place as "Taumata". The Mountain Dew jingle wasn't about "Taumata", and neither were any of the other pop culture references. It is not special in The New Zealand Geographic Placenames Database for being called "Taumata". Most reliable sources that talk about the place seem likely to feature its longer name. Without the name, it's just a non-notable hill. —BarrelProof (talk) 12:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 10 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is that the proposed title is the most common name, believe it or not. Jenks24 (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu → Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu – Correct name Vivaelcelta {talk  · contributions} 14:21, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

• According to whom? I have confirmed what the article says – that "the New Zealand Geographic Placenames Database, maintained by Land Information New Zealand (LINZ), records the name as 'Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu'" – Please see http://www.linz.govt.nz/regulatory/place-names/find-name/new-zealand-gazetteer-official-geographic-names/new-zealand-gazetteer-search-place-names?p=56389#p=56389&zoom=9&lat=-40.34622&lon=176.53914&layers=BTTT. —BarrelProof (talk) 16:18, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Support – It seems that the suggested name is the name used on the sign that is located on the hill itself, which is 85 characters in length and is thus the length that is described for the cited Guinness Book of World Records entry. This therefore is probably the most famous version of the name, which seems like a good choice for the article title since the hill is primarily known for its long name. Being the name used on the sign located on the hill itself also makes it presumptively the best-known name locally. It seems to have a shorter name in a particular government database, but that is presumably not the version that is the most well known. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:06, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
• Support, common name. And that sign on the hill, which creates the common name. Randy Kryn 2:26, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
• Comment: moving the page to a longer name might be a good idea, as that could make it harder for vandals to find and attack. <<< SOME GADGET GEEK >>> (talk) 13:59, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.