Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Label for 2013 mobile release

This dif sums up the dispute pretty well. The IP wants to label it a remake. I feel that's inaccurate, because its still essentially the same game. The IP disputes the accuracy of term "port" though. I figured there's probably a third option that describes it even better, but I wanted to follow WP:BRD instead of arguing through edit summaries.

Honestly, we don't have to use either term, we can just call it what it was - a 2013 re-release for mobile platforms. The subsequent sentences cover the details of what exactly that meant (Done by Taxman in the retro enging, some enhancements added, etc.)

• Original version - A remastered mobile port was released for iOS... on December 12, 2013.
• IP's version - A remake was released for iOS... on December 12, 2013.
• Alternate proposal - A new version of the game was released for iOS... on December 12, 2013.

Discussion

• Support original or alternate, Oppose IP version. Per comments above. Sergecross73 msg me 17:24, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support original. "Remastered port" is more accurate and descriptive. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 18:23, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support original - This is the most accurate way to describe the version. It is not a remake by definition, and simply saying "a new version" doesn't really help. I wouldn't be opposed to saying "enhanced" either. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:54, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

• I'd be fine with that too, if that helps a consensus. "Remake" is really the term I oppose, because it's really just the original game with a few add one, not a fully remade game. Sergecross73 msg me 01:54, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

• Some games, like Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy, blur the line between a remaster and remake, but that simply isn't the case here. Thinking more about it, I think "enhanced" is a better term to use here, as it's not seen as strongly as remaster can be. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 06:50, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

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Should we credit Sonic Team?

My understanding is that most of Sonic Team worked on this game along with STI - and the opening title screen says "Sonic Team presents", doesn't it? Should we list Sonic Team as a developer for this game? At the very least I think we should maybe explicitly explain Sonic Team's connection - at the moment we just kind of casually mention them. @Red Phoenix: You have a good handle on who did what when it comes to this stuff. Popcornduff (talk) 12:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion: All Sonic games of this era should list "Sega" in the infobox and the lead as the primary developer with a footnoted paragraph explaining the whole conundrum. I don't think we're ever going to settle on Sonic Team vs. STI vs. Sega. TarkusAB^talk 13:24, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

If Sega credits Sonic Team, so should we. Indifferent to adding other developers, but Sonic Team shouldn’t be dropped. Sergecross73 msg me 16:01, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so here's the deal here. "Sonic Team Presents" was used on the first Sonic the Hedgehog but not the second. The second starts with "Sonic and Miles "Tails" Prower in". And it's not on the third or Knuckles. The core issue here that I don't think anyone knows is what to consider Sonic Team before 1995. Yuji Naka called it just a "team name", and upon leaving STI at the end of 1994 Naka was given charge of Sega Consumer Development Department 3 (aka CS3), and that officially became Sonic Team then. Right now, the Sonic Team article basically just acknowledges the team members were elsewhere during that time, which is in my opinion the right call. However, some sources still want to call STI's Japanese team "Sonic Team", some want to say it was temporarily disbanded, some want to say there were two Sonic Teams (the second being Ohshima's team that did Sonic CD) and some that literally just stick the Sonic Team name on every game with Sonic in it. Based on my research, I give more weight to STI given that was the division where it was developed, and I call Sonic Team the division that began as CS3 in 1995, except including Sonic the Hedgehog for obvious reasons and overwhelming source coverage. I feel this is the most accurate application of the sources. That being said, there has been disagreement on the subject, and I have to wonder if a discussion with the Video games project or an RFC would be needed if we can't come to a consensus. Basically, we need a clear definition of our parameters to answer this question, which the sources don't have. 64.134.160.191 (talk) 16:04, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

This was me, sorry. I didn't realize my phone was logged out. Red Phoenix ^talk 17:48, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

"Sonic Team Presents" was used on the first Sonic the Hedgehog but not the second. [..] And it's not on the third or Knuckles.

However all the original games have "Sonic Team" credited on the Japanese cases, including CD.

Based on my research, I give more weight to STI

You bring up valid points, I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, but arguments like this is are my concern because this is all just WP:OR at this point. We could run an RFC but I feel all the top subject experts have thrown their hat into the discussion already and we've just been running in circles. TarkusAB^talk 16:21, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't be against Sega, necessarily, but I think in this case I'd be more in favor of Sonic Team and STI together than mentioning neither one. While I do think STI alone is sufficient, I'm not here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, and Sergecross73 has a point. Plus, that too has backing in sources very significantly, especially for Sonic 2. Red Phoenix ^talk 17:48, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Again, this goes back to what sources say (nearly all of them include Sonic 2 as a Sonic Team production) versus what the game actually lists (just a simple Sega). I'm still on the boat of listing Sonic Team as a developer. A simple Sega would work if we want to just be as accurate as possible without any possibility of error, but we would at least need to keep Sonic Team's involvement (per sources) in prose somewhere. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:24, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

I'd go with listing them both given that it's how Sega does it nowadays. Secondary sources are kinda 50/50 with using either Sonic Team or STI; I personally would prefer to go with just STI, but that seems to bring up too much controversy. I think listing just Sonic Team is inaccurate because it wasn't just that staff (also Americans) and just Sega is too broad JOEBRO64 20:39, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

In that case, I'd rather we just simplify it and go with Sega in the infobox, which is not in any way misleading still. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:47, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

That doesn’t strike me as accurate or intuitive for most editors. I don’t understand Wikipedian’s slow whitewashing of Sonic Team from infoboxes when there’s source that support it. Nor do I understand this long-running quest to define Sonic Team when it’s clear Sega never bothered to. “Solutions” like this just invite future disputes and long-term maintenance. But I’ve lost the will to argue or maintain it further though. Good luck with this. Sergecross73 msg me 21:03, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't either, I've stated my support of Sonic Team over Sega in all of these previous discussions. But that being said, having it just be Sega (their parent company) is not technically wrong either. I was just trying to settle on a compromise since consensus appears to not be going our way. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:43, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

• Just a note, within this short discussion we've already had four different proposals: Sonic Team, STI, Sonic Team/STI, and Sega. Maybe we should consider an RFC (not just for Sonic 2 but for all the early Sonics and Ristar). TarkusAB^talk 21:35, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I feel like doing a RFC a would just have more split opinions that doesn't solve anything, but you are welcome to start one. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:46, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 7 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 18:36, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

---

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 → Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-bit video game) – I admit I have played this game so many times in my lifetime, but due to the upcoming film next month and the 8-bit game, I do not see this article as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC anymore and request this article be moved to a more fitting title. JE98 (talk) 22:26, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - the new film isn't even out yet, I think it's a bit soon to make a determination on it affecting the primary topic. The 8bit version is far less popular, and terms like "16 bit" are not ideal because non-gamers generally aren't familiar with what that means. Sergecross73 msg me 22:43, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support Not the obvious primary topic - pageviews for the film are already tremendously in advance of the 16-bit game. I believe that it should be permanently moved to a disambiguation, and the game hasn't existed long enough for recentism to truly apply here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:54, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

• 30 years isn't long enough to claim RECENTISM? Sergecross73 msg me 15:39, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

  Considering some things date back thousands of years, I'd say not really. Especially since it's two things in the same franchise. Now, the opposition to, say, the move of Dido (Queen of Carthage) to Dido due to the singer also being named the same thing is what I'd really call recentism. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:50, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• Right, I understand that. But conceptually, I don't see why the same concept wouldn't apply to a subject thirty years old and a subject negative 30 days old. It's scalable. This just feels more like a conversation we should be having in 6 months when release hype dies down. Sergecross73 msg me 23:00, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose the proposed title, Support move to "Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (video game)" instead. As pointed above, the 8-bit game is far less popular than this "main" game. Meanwhile the movie is getting more popular. Neocorelight (Talk) 02:59, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

  The 8-bit game is also a video game. I don't like the trend of making purposely vague disambiguations for supposed primary topics, it accomplishes nothing of note and only confuses readers and editors. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:33, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

  It's not vague at all and I'm not saying the 8-bit one isn't a video game. The hatnote will do fine. Neocorelight (Talk) 07:25, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Of course the film is getting more page views right now - it's about to come out and we're in the middle of a major marketing whirlwind. We'll need to wait for the dust to settle before we know if it's truly the new primary topic in a long-term sense. Popcornfud (talk) 15:44, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree that it’s best to wait.--65.93.195.118 (talk) 16:46, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. This screams WP:RECENTISM. At best, we should wait until after the film is out. JOEBRO64 22:57, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Definitely way too soon to consider whether the primary topic has changed here. Mz7 (talk) 07:32, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sega removed from lead sentence?

TheJoebro64, why did you remove "published by Sega" from the lead sentence? You did not provide a valid reason for removing the publisher from the lead sentence. Firstly, the article has stated "developed and published by Sega" for many years until you recently changed it. That's been the WP:Status quo for many years. Secondly, virtually every WP:Featured article on video games (which have all gone through an extensive review process) states the publisher in the lead sentence, almost without exception. Thirdly, Sonic 2 has far more WP:Notability as a Sega game, first and foremost, before being recognized as an STI game (to the point of many still thinking it's a Sonic Team game). And finally, most WP:Reliable sources identify it as a Sega game rather than an STI game. Most contemporary video game magazines and newspapers barely even mention STI, but most simply credit Sega as the developer and publisher. If you want to remove Sega from the lead sentence, please provide a valid justification for doing so, because I don't see any valid excuse for such an action. Maestro2016 (talk) 15:15, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

1. I think stating "published by Sega" in the first sentence is, to put it bluntly, unnecessary. A Sega division developed the game and it was released for the Sega Genesis. That already makes it clear it's a Sega game, and if anyone is confused as to who published it, we name Sega in the infobox and say "publisher Sega" at the beginning of the next paragraph.

2. And sure, it's said "published by Sega" for years, but as far as I'm concerned, you're the only one who's taken issue with me changing it as I've revamped this article. It's stayed at "developed by STI for the Sega Genesis" for weeks at a time before you change it again.

4. "virtually every" is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because other articles do it doesn't mean we have to do it here. Furthermore, it's simply not true; I can name dozens of articles that don't name the publisher in the first sentence. (Blast Corps, Rare Replay, Paper Mario: The Origami King, Super Meat Boy, etc.)

5. "to the point of many still thinking it's a Sonic Team game" honestly adds more justification to highlight STI foremost, as it's an extremely common misconception that we've been trying a long time to correct.

5. It's a Sega game, but we know the specific branch that developed it now. I doubt that was verifiable back then, but it is now, so I don't see why we shouldn't name it an STI game. It's also (probably) the most important game that STI developed, which I think adds greater justification for naming them. JOEBRO64 16:04, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

We always name the developer of the game, and STI was the developer, so we should mention that. Popcornfud (talk) 16:10, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

1. I think it's necessary to mention the publisher to avoid any ambiguity. Just because a game is published for the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, that doesn't necessarily tell us that Sega was the publisher (whether it's obvious or not). Saying "published by Sega for the Genesis" is better than just "for the Sega Genesis" as the former is unambiguous whereas the latter is ambiguous.

2. Sure, I do remember reverting the change once before (I think it was last year).

3. Those articles aren't counter-examples. Blast Corps, Origami King and Super Meat Boy don't mention solely the developer in the lead sentence (Blast Corps mentions both dev and pub, Origami King mentions neither dev or pub, and Super Meat Boy has the same dev and pub). The only exception is Rare Replay, but that's a retro compilation of Rare games rather than a singular game and Microsoft wasn't the original publisher for any of those individual games, so that's not comparable to this article.

4. The article already addressed it in the second paragraph in the previous version. And I don't mind moving STI up to the lead sentence, but Sega should stay, as that's what the game is most strongly associated with in most WP:Reliable sources. While some sources have clarified the situation with STI, mentioning only STI and not Sega Corporation in the lead sentence would be giving WP:Undue weight to those few sources over the majority of reliable sources which identify the game with just Sega.

5. Again, I have no issue with moving STI up to the lead sentence. My only issue is removing Sega as the publisher from the lead sentence. There's really no need for that.

Maestro2016 (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Maestro here. If you want to be as brief as possible, then just state "Sonic 2 is a 1992 platform game by Sega" with any further mention of a developer in a later sentence. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't feel terribly strongly about it. I just don't think it's necessary to say "published by Sega" when we say it was developed by a Sega division for a Sega console. It's already implied. JOEBRO64 20:08, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 26 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved and closed – Upon the negative response, I have decided to close this move request. I apologize for any inconvenience I may have caused and I will reconsider a move request at another time. (non-admin closure) JE98 (talk) 16:30, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

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Sonic the Hedgehog 2 → Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-bit video game) – I think now is an appropriate time to make this request again, as the film has done significantly well. I enjoyed that movie and like I said, I have probably played this game more than a hundred times in my lifetime, but it is clear to me that this video game is no longer the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. I realize this may echo WP:RECENTISM and I get that, but considering the thirty year gap between this game and the film, I think now is a more appropriate time to discuss. @Sergecross73, Zxcvbnm, Neocorelight, 65.93.195.118, TheJoebro64, and Mz7: I would like to invite you guys to comment as well. JE98 (talk) 22:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. The circumstances have not changed from the previous RM 6 weeks ago. It is still way too early to determine the primary topic here, as recent coverage will still skew heavily towards the film that is still in theaters. Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term. My understanding is that the video game upon which the film is based was quite notable and influential within the history of video gaming—that long-term significance outweighs the short-term significance of the film in my mind, and it's too early to speculate on the long-term significance of the film at the moment. Mz7 (talk) 22:34, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support Per nom and move disambiguation to primary name as well per WP:NOPRIMARY. I don't believe there is such a thing as recentism when we're talking about separate entries of the same franchise. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:35, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per the previous discussion. Nothing has changed. JOEBRO64 22:40, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - it's still far too soon to be able to avoid a RECENTISM bias. The film is still in theatres. Not that it leaving theaters should automatically spur this discussion again. But it's certainly the lowest bar to clear. Sergecross73 msg me 23:10, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose, mainly because nothing has changed in the past few weeks. I personally would argue in favor of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (video game) with WP:PDAB in mind. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 23:50, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose I would recommend waiting a few months after the film has left theatres to better access Thr situation.--65.92.163.109 (talk) 23:54, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support the film has 1,171,426 views and the 8-bit video game has 5,545 compared with only 53,150[[1]] for the 16-bit video game. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:04, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

  But what happens when Sonic Origins releases in two months, which includes the Sonic 2 game. It releases right about the same time that the film will fall out of theaters. Thats going to totally shuffle around the views for each article. Are we going to move them back? And then move it another time once the games re-release buzz dies down? This is why people keep citing WP:RECENTISM as an issue here. These decisions need to be made when all the new releases stop inflating views. Sergecross73 msg me 14:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose as entirely premature. Right now the movie is the “flavor of the day”, since it just came out whereas the game, which was also significantly impactful, came out 30 years ago. Number of views don’t really hold up as an argument because of this. What we’re really arguing is “hit blockbuster movie now” vs. “one of the most significant and hit video games of all time”. We won’t really know which is more significant and notable for quite some time, and as such, there is no reason to change at this time. Red Phoenix ^talk 14:14, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. I don't see what's changed since March. Of course the movie is more popular right now, but we can't say that will be the case in even three or six months. Calidum 14:17, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. I wonder why we disambiguate the two games by their "bit". I thought it would be more informative/easier to understand for laymen if they are disambiguated by their original platforms. 182.1.79.184 (talk) 02:38, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

  Generally, you're correct, it's just that, applying it to this particular situation it doesn't work out all that great. Applying it to the 8 bit game you'd have something like "Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Sega Game Gear and Sega Master System game). And with the 16 bit game, there would almost certainly be endless arguments over whether it should be called "Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Sega Genesis) or Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Sega Mega Drive). And the compromise, a Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Sega Genesis/Sega Mega Drive) would fail WP:CONCISE (as does the Game Gear/SMS one). Sergecross73 msg me 12:13, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

  You're overcomplicating things for the latter. Just use the name that is used as the title for the article. 182.1.72.196 (talk) 13:03, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

  As someone who has been moderating disputes at that page for over a decade - no, no I am not. But that said, I don't really like using the "bits" either. Most people outside of gaming dont know what that means. I was just giving you some background from past discussions. Sergecross73 msg me 13:07, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Sonic prototype" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Sonic prototype and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 12#Sonic prototype until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 13:32, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

"Sonic 2 Long Version" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Sonic 2 Long Version and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 12#Sonic 2 Long Version until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 13:39, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

"Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (mame)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (mame) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 12#Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (mame) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 13:46, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Internal link points to unintended Wikipedia page

Under the section "Gameplay", paragraph 3, is the sentence:

Sonic can transform into Super Sonic by collecting 50 rings.

In this sentence, Super Sonic is a link - and although the reference is to the fictional character, the link leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic_speed

(This same issue also exists on the page "List of Sonic The Hedgehog characters")

If "Super Sonic" does not have an individual page, would it be better to link to "Sonic the Hedgehog (character)" ? 97.127.225.51 (talk) 03:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

It looks like someone relatively recently changed a redirect without discussion, and it messed things up. I've reverted their changes and suggest they start a discussion before changing again. So...its fixed for now, but may need future fixing depending on the consensus of hypothetical future discussions. Sergecross73 msg me 17:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

"Super Sonic" listed at RFD. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 18:07, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

"video game research scene"

@TheJoeBro64, video game research scene is certainly not in source. It appears like it is term made up for the article, which feels inaccurate to me as we are talking about fans datamining the game. But my wording of fan scene is admittedly not much better. IgelRM (talk) 13:09, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I also kind of furrowed my brow at that part, it feels like a sort of vague term. We can probably get more specific by reproducing what the source says more directly. Popcornfud (talk) 13:18, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I've changed it to "datamining community" JOEBRO⁶⁴ 16:14, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I had to read this comment three times before I realized you hadn't written "dating community". How disappointing. Popcornfud (talk) 16:25, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Sonic 2 inspired the creation of Tinder but I couldn't find a source so we'll have to settle for datamining. Sad. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 16:36, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, that's sounds understandable. You won't like me going on, but citing app downloads based on store listings is unreliable and these are combined with a free-to-play label. That such important policy issues slipped through FARC seems like a WP:VG thing. IgelRM (talk) 20:26, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Sonic 2 Commercial

There was a commercial for Sonic The Hedgehog 2 where customers could get the game for free when they bought the Sega Genesis bundle that included the first Sonic game by way of a mail-in order (only shipping and handling had to be paid). I've been trying to find a more appropriate source for the purposes of eligibility to the main article, but have been unsuccessful; all I could find was the actual video which you can see here. ElMeroEse (talk) 07:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

The Cyber/Genocide city level has been reconstructed

By the non profit video game historian organisation, they also found extra animations/sprites for the winter level, wood zone and dust Hill, all relevant information is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ4uEcJJtA Charliephere (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

It has since been added to the article. Sergecross73 msg me 01:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 11 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. After extended time for discussion, no consensus has emerged in favor of the proposed move. BD2412 T 02:39, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

---

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 → Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-bit video game) – Now that it has been nearly two years since the film was released, I feel now is an appropriate time to rehash this discussion. This article is in no way the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC anymore, as the film's article, despite being released nearly two years ago, still gets significantly more page views than this article. JE98 (talk) 10:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 00:40, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

• Weak oppose / Comment. I think someone was too overzealous in trimming the hatnote - the film should absolutely be in the hatnote directly rather than requiring a click through the disambig page, which would help deal with the issue some. (And I'll make that edit now.) Anyway, the reason why the other Sonic 2 article is at "8-bit video game" is because it was for both the Game Gear and the Master System. If moved, I would suggest as an alternative Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Sega Genesis game) or Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis game), since that was the most important platform by far. SnowFire (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - Still not a fan of using terminology like "bits", which isn't really commonly understood concept outside of 1990s video game enthusiasts. That works if you're some super fan website like Sega Retro, but not Wikipedia, which is directed more towards general audiences. Sergecross73 msg me 15:23, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
• Do something: The nom makes a good case for a lack of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

  See the past discussions on this higher up in the page. The problem is that the disambiguation gets pretty complicated on this one due to a number of factors. Sergecross73 msg me 15:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Page views are not the deciding factor when evaluating PRIMARYTOPIC. Overall usage and significance over time must also be considered, and this strongly favors the game as the primary topic. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:05, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. I would say WP:RECENTISM applies, as the film is still pretty recent. "Sonic 2" has referred to the video game for the past 30 years and anyone who comes here looking for the movie instead can just click the hatnote. There's nothing to suggest the movie has usurped the game as the primary topic. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 16:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

While I agree that WP:RECENTISM applies I don’t believe anyone is claiming that the film has become the primary topic some no one has suggested Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (film) be moved to Sonic the Hedgehog 2.--67.70.101.200 (talk) 23:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support / Do something. The video game is emphatically not the primary topic any more, and I don't think it ever will be again, even in 100 years time - the film is on an equal standing as long-term significance. I don't have a magic answer to which disambiguator to use, perhaps one of SnowFire's would be sensible. But some sort of move does have to happen and a disambiguation page put in its place.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I don't really know how you could argue the movie's on equal footing for long-term significance. Sonic 2 has been an enduringly popular game for over 30 years, influenced industry trends, is often listed among the greatest games of all time, and discoveries regarding its development are regularly covered in the media. The movie came out less than two years ago and no one has provided any evidence it's had an impact on its industry or audience in a way comparable to the game's. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 16:16, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Not sure how anyone could claim to know what it'll look like 100 years out. Not sure how anyone could assert that with any reasoning, let alone with seemingly no reasoning... Sergecross73 msg me 17:00, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - for a few more years at least. RECENTISM absolutely still applies as long as the film series is still being made. The third installment is due in December and surely the film article still gets tons of views in anticipation of that. Until the film series ends and the hype dies down (or maybe it doesn’t, but then it firmly establishes itself as more notable than the games), we don’t have a clear enough picture to say it’s the primary topic over one of the most influential video games of all time that also triggered changes in the industry with the pioneering of the street date. Red Phoenix ^talk 17:04, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus as to whether any change at all to the status quo should be made. BD2412 T 00:40, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, but I do think that renaming the page "Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (1992 video game)" wouldn't be a bad Idea. Overall, when you bring up Sonic 2, I'd imagine more people would think to the video game than the movie. MrNoobNub2 (talk) 21:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• It’s a bit late but Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992 video game) won’t work since Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-bit video game) also came out in 1992.--67.70.101.200 (talk) 23:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)